Mental Health The Myth of Mental Illness

I would have to say I disagree with the bold part.

If you know about not just psychiatry, but also psychology and even philosophy (I studied determinism in college...if you don't know about it you can look it up), you probably realize that everyone is generally a combination of 2 things: 1) genetics and 2) past experiences.

From the way you say that the illnesses come from "the difficulties of the modern world" it sounds like you only believe that our life experiences cause problems but not our genetics, and that is not true cause we already know that bipolar and schizophrenia and alcoholism and things like that can run in families.

I also do believe our brains can literally change from what we face in life. Like, not just like trauma as a psychological thing but maybe that the structures of our brain or amounts of dopamine or serotonin or brain waves can change from things we face, like in PTSD.

I do believe that there ARE real scientific basis to all the conditions people have but that we don't yet have the tools to see what is going on in the brain.

I also do not necessarily agree that most of these conditions are temporary.

I mean, it depends on what you mean by "temporary", but if you mean that they will just go away by themselves if we don't do anything about it, then I don't necessarily believe that is true.

If someone has a true mental health issue I doubt it will just go away if we ignore it.

Yes, I have expressed myself in a very restrictive way. There are certainly genetic predispositions, traumas, and so on. Also, they can remain forever if not treated properly.

Let's imagine someone who had a trauma during the adolescence. If there was trauma, there was a stressful situation, which, at that specific moment of its occurrence, culminated with the releasing of a set of substances, such as neurotransmitters, hormones, small signaling molecules, etc. These substances were released in order to allow the body to respond to the stressful pressure that was imposed on it. As a basis of comparison, if one needs to run because of a danger, adrenaline is released but when adrenaline is no longer present its effects cease. This is not the case with traumas. Once the set of substances released during the moment of the stressful situation was metabolized and was no longer acting, the mental symptoms did not cease as they should, it is a permanent condition.

Which kinds of biochemical changes occur in the brain to generate this posttraumatic symptoms? Apparently, some genes are permanently activated during the traumatic experience and because of that an unnatural pattern of gene expression is established. Does this activation last forever? is there a way to circumvent it or deactivate the genes? These are the questions to be done.
 
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For many years I consumed and then vomited up to 36,000 calories a day. Would you call my eating disorder "imaginary"?

I'm very sorry to hear that.

You know I'm the guy saying it's NOT imaginary right?

I'm not sure yet whether anyone in this thread thinks mental illness is imaginary.

The OP hasn't really clarified what he means so I can't tell whether or not he thinks mental illness is a myth or not, but I'm kind of doubting he does, and no one else seems to, so I don't think the thread title is very good...
 
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Yes, I have expressed myself in a very restrictive way. There are certainly genetic predispositions, traumas, and so on. Also, they can remain forever if not treated properly.

Let's imagine someone who had a trauma during the adolescence. If there was trauma, there was a stressful situation, which, at that specific moment of its occurrence, culminated with the releasing of a set of substances, such as neurotransmitters, hormones, small signaling molecules, etc. These substances were released in order to allow the body to respond to the stressful pressure that was imposed on it. As a basis of comparison, if one needs to run because of a danger, adrenaline is released but when adrenaline is no longer present its effects cease. This is not the case with traumas. Once the set of substances released during the moment of the stressful situation was metabolized and was no longer acting, the mental symptoms did not cease as they should, it is a permanent condition.

Which kinds of biochemical changes occur in the brain to generate this posttraumatic symptoms? Apparently, some genes are permanently activated during the traumatic experience and because of that an unnatural pattern of gene expression is established. Does this activation last forever? is there a way to circumvent it or deactivate the genes? These are the questions to be done.

Well said.
 
Mental illness is a myth...


Just decapitating my son because, ya know, he's the antichrist and all that

WHAT THE FUCK??!!

They are letting this guy out and letting him live with his parents part of the time too??!!

Everyone is saying he's "a model patient??!"

I'm sorry, look...even if you can convince a judge you are completely insane (which I do NOT doubt he is...) and that's the only reason you cut your kid's head off...and that for that reason you should be in a mental hospital and not a prison...if you are THIS PARTICULAR GUY let me just say that you should NEVER be released from that mental hospital for the rest of your life.

I mean, I believe you can be guilty by way of insanity, but that doesn't make you any safer to society.

If you decapitate your son cause you think he's the anti-christ, I don't care what meds you take after that, you need to be locked down PERMANENTLY.

I mean seriously...I really hope his parents trust him...

Meanwhile, we've got people doing 4 times the amount of time he has done in prisons full of rapists and murderers because they sold or used drugs...
 
I also don't understand the term "not guilty by reason of insanity".

If you kill someone but are insane, you are still guilty of murder.

They should change the term to "guilty of murder, but insane" LOL.

I know that sounds a bit harsh to say it that way...but...the idea that you are somehow "not guilty" of killing someone because you are insane and don't know what you are doing is not quite an excuse IMO.

Yes, you may not have known what you were doing, but you still killed someone, are still guilty, and are NOT necessarily safer to be let loose in society because you killed out of insanity rather than a lack of conscience.

Who is to say that doctors can definitively stop guys like this from killing again because they have him "stabilized" on meds?

I'm doubting very many people will ever feel safe around this guy, no matter what meds he's on, and so he should not be allowed out into society.

I'm not necessarily any less scared of the crazy guy who killed someone but who everyone says has a moral compass and is stable on his meds now than I am of a cold blooded but not insane merciless psychopath.

Lets just say, I don't feel safe having either one of them being in society.

This is another problem: we see prison as punishment moreso than to keep people safe, but mental hospitals only for safety.

While I think the idea of the victims' families in murder cases wanting some revenge in seeing someone punished in prison kind of makes sense, to be real, the point of prison should not be punishment, and while rehabilitation would be nice, I don't believe it's that either, it's just keeping society safe IMO, and I don't see why a mental hospital should be different.

It would be nice to think we can rehab someone like this but I don't think we can, and so because this guy seems to not NECESSARILY lack a moral compass but just be completely insane, we don't want to "punish him", so we give him a few years locked up, put him on meds and let him go home?

I don't think that makes much sense.

Yeah, psychiatry is not advanced enough for us to be able to be sure the meds will work so well that he won't still be a danger to society...
 
Yeah I feel like only violent people should be locked up. Because apart from situations where confinement keeps ppl safe from particularly violent people, prison doesn't really benefit anyone and there are so many more productive things we could try.

And I do find it really fucked up how our 'Justice' system is so often centred around revenge, despite the fact that so much of our culture and film, writing etc condemns revenge as a bad thing.

And I find the idea that ive done some terrible thing and should be punished and feel remorse for using a drug that isn't sanctioned by the govt completely preposterous. Especially when I turned to using this drug because it made my life bearable where legal/indicated treatments for my depression/anxiety were entirely ineffective. I am pretty certain I would be dead now if I hadn't found something that made me feel human (i.e opioids).

So I certainly resent psychiatry/psychiatrists for telling me when I first presented that 'oh yes anxiety and depression are treatable these days!' Man I was disillusioned when I realized that I was treatment resistant (at least with regards to their methods).

But mental illness definitely exists! And of course we are far better off with psychiatry than we would be without it.

In the end though what helped me was opioids (have been on opioid maintenence since my early twenties) and regular appointments with my clinical psychologist every two weeks to help me navigate the specific problems encountered in daily life which I used to just avoid because they terrified me.
 
Getting the notion you're not well is one thing, dedicating all your resources toward a cause that is essentially limiting is very confusing when the symptoms come to manifest in other ways. I'd have given anything for my audiology cause. but the notions are not ground in reality. despite all efforts, it's not about distorting my voice or words. focusing on this crusade led me to neglect other facets of life and overlook the most obvious calls. but everything happens for a reason. just got to really make the most of what is afforded to you in the real world. there is not much else apart from that which can be attributed such a high level of utmost importance. the real world can be either fast or slow paced. with a computer and my finances sorted (I got bankrupted) I can't possibly get this rhythm wrong. Not long til credit replenishes itself and not a moment too soon. A real smack in the chops is what I got upon my last brash with the doctors and it left me more determined than ever not to have my fate concentrated in the hands of so few. I want my civil liberties. Just as well I qualified for welfare on the day my application expired when I got admitted. That was 4k I needed there and then. And thank heavens for my friend from the innernet! He came through for me to sign me out and I moved into the first property I saw. Now I'm back with the program. Yippeeiiio.
 
The Myth of Mental Illness is the cheek-in-tongue book title which criticizes mostly the POWER IMBALANCE of Psychiatry of past and present; this divide/power gap is still TOO large! The freedom to be different outside what is considered normal behaviour and views without losing ones civil liberties through INVOLUNTARY ADMITTANCE FOR AN INDEFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME IN CERTAIN JURISDICTIONS.
 
The Myth of Mental Illness is the cheek-in-tongue book title which criticizes mostly the POWER IMBALANCE of Psychiatry of past and present; this divide/power gap is still TOO large! The freedom to be different outside what is considered normal behaviour and views without losing ones civil liberties through INVOLUNTARY ADMITTANCE FOR AN INDEFINITE AMOUNT OF TIME IN CERTAIN JURISDICTIONS.

You mean "tongue-in-cheek".

Dude, people have TONS of freedom "to be different" without being locked up in most developed countries. I mean, even if the mental hospitals where you are a bit stricter, you live in Canada, which by and large is one of the most liberal countries in the world, in SOME ways more liberal than the U.S. If you lived in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or certain Muslim/Middle Eastern Countries, Somalia or 3rd world countries where they execute people for drugs like The Phillipines or Malaysia I'd see where you are coming from, but I really can't take seriously the idea that there isn't a lot of freedom "to be different" in a country as liberal as Canada by and large.

Look at the world we live in where "VERY thankfully" it is now more accepted than ever to be gay or bi, transsexuality is beginning to become accepted, people get facial tats and multiple piercings all over their body and still SOMETIMES manage to get jobs lol, weed is close to being legalized in many states and countries including your own, there is getting to be more racial equality than before (though there's still TONS of racism of course), and I have known LOTS AND LOTS of VERY wacky people in different ways who have never been locked up in mental institutions.

I don't think people are being locked up for being "abnormal" in many instances in well developed countries like Canada, the U.S., the U.K., France, The Netherlands, etc. The kinds of behaviors that get people locked up in those countries are usually going to be far outside of the realm of acceptable behavior in society and being a danger to oneself or others.

You don't really say EXACTLY what you have done to be admitted though, so it leaves me wondering and thinking that maybe you are claiming that all you did was act a little "different" and were locked up for it, which just doesn't sound realistic, sorry...

Yes, I can see that in CERTAIN situations there is a power-imbalance, although I think that it is MUCH worse where you live than where I do and that involuntary admittance for long periods of time is still generally not the norm in most developed countries, and that the kind of very bleak situation where there is literally some kind of power struggle between psychiatrist and patient is not usually what happens. If it was then psychiatry would have a hard time surviving at all because there would be so many law suits by patients and so much bad publicity that few people would go to see psychiatrists at all.

Your situation may not be as uncommon as I think, especially where you live, but I don't think it is as common as you think overall, and I don't think seeing the situation as being a war between patients and doctors benefits anyone, and no offense, but I think that you MIGHT be in a bit of denial about your own issues being a little bit worse than you think. If that is NOT true, then I apologize profusely, but there's something about the way you talk that sounds like you might be in denial.

You STILL have not clarified whether or not you think mental illness does in fact exist or if you think it is only a myth, and whether or not you think that even with all of its' flaws, that we are better off having psychiatry than not having it, and whether or not you think that at least SOMETIMES medications help for mental illness.

I have asked you these questions like 3 times but you still haven't answered.

Why not?
 
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For many years I consumed and then vomited up to 36,000 calories a day. Would you call my eating disorder "imaginary"?

Again, I feel sorry for your situation, but it's a bit messed up that I am pretty much the strongest proponent of psychiatry and mental illness being legit in this whole thread (even though I TOTALLY think psychiatry is VERY VERY flawed), and it seems like you came in to the thread and didn't even read my posts and assumed I was saying I think mental illness doesn't exist.

Please read my posts in the future before you assume what I am saying, because I was saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of that.
 
I didnt think he was talking to you Myco

Although I read the early pages yesterday so i may be mixed up but I thought chemenhanced was talking to the OP
 
You mean "tongue-in-cheek".

Dude, people have TONS of freedom "to be different" without being locked up in most developed countries. I mean, even if the mental hospitals where you are a bit stricter, you live in Canada, which by and large is one of the most liberal countries in the world, in SOME ways more liberal than the U.S. If you lived in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan or certain Muslim/Middle Eastern Countries, Somalia or 3rd world countries where they execute people for drugs like The Phillipines or Malaysia I'd see where you are coming from, but I really can't take seriously the idea that there isn't a lot of freedom "to be different" in a country as liberal as Canada by and large.

Look at the world we live in where "VERY thankfully" it is now more accepted than ever to be gay or bi, transsexuality is beginning to become accepted, people get facial tats and multiple piercings all over their body and still SOMETIMES manage to get jobs lol, weed is close to being legalized in many states and countries including your own, there is getting to be more racial equality than before (though there's still TONS of racism of course), and I have known LOTS AND LOTS of VERY wacky people in different ways who have never been locked up in mental institutions.

I don't think people are being locked up for being "abnormal" in many instances in well developed countries like Canada, the U.S., the U.K., France, The Netherlands, etc. The kinds of behaviors that get people locked up in those countries are usually going to be far outside of the realm of acceptable behavior in society and being a danger to oneself or others.

You don't really say EXACTLY what you have done to be admitted though, so it leaves me wondering and thinking that maybe you are claiming that all you did was act a little "different" and were locked up for it, which just doesn't sound realistic, sorry...

Yes, I can see that in CERTAIN situations there is a power-imbalance, although I think that it is MUCH worse where you live than where I do and that involuntary admittance for long periods of time is still generally not the norm in most developed countries, and that the kind of very bleak situation where there is literally some kind of power struggle between psychiatrist and patient is not usually what happens. If it was then psychiatry would have a hard time surviving at all because there would be so many law suits by patients and so much bad publicity that few people would go to see psychiatrists at all.

Your situation may not be as uncommon as I think, especially where you live, but I don't think it is as common as you think overall, and I don't think seeing the situation as being a war between patients and doctors benefits anyone, and no offense, but I think that you MIGHT be in a bit of denial about your own issues being a little bit worse than you think. If that is NOT true, then I apologize profusely, but there's something about the way you talk that sounds like you might be in denial.

You STILL have not clarified whether or not you think mental illness does in fact exist or if you think it is only a myth, and whether or not you think that even with all of its' flaws, that we are better off having psychiatry than not having it, and whether or not you think that at least SOMETIMES medications help for mental illness.

I have asked you these questions like 3 times but you still haven't answered.

Why not?

I don’t disagree that Canada is a very free Country in many ways but not in the area of Psychiatry. The moment I walked in to be assessed, the psych already had it out for me simply because he didn’t like how I looked and so he Certified me under the Mental Health Act. Happened to several inmates I spoke to.

LGBTQ has only left the DSM not too long ago and treatment sessions for these victims we hear “survivor” stories on the news still to this very day. This part is undeniable. Some conditions in the DSM SHOULD be treated while some I believe SHOULD NOT OR TREATED TO A LESSER DEGREE.

My question or argument is that yes the power imbalance is TOO damn much. I’m going to go through a Civil Liberties Lawyer who does Pro Bono work to fight for damages. And that is real. Peace.
 
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For the sake of curiosity, recently, in Brazil, it was approved a law that allows the government to intern homeless drug addicts (those who literally live on the streets), namely crack addiction, which is a public health problem in Brazil, because of the very low prices ($ 1 for a rock) and availability (it is everywhere, very easy to buy).

Needless to say that this is a controversial measure, but somehow I support it because the situation is out of control. Crack addiction makes people lose their minds, two passersby were killed by a cracker last week, because he was psychotic. As they are homeless, they buy the cheapest rocks containing many residual chemical solvents, which is an extra contribution to paranoia.

On the other hand, thinking socially, it is terrible for a democracy that people are being forcibly locked up
 
Again, I feel sorry for your situation, but it's a bit messed up that I am pretty much the strongest proponent of psychiatry and mental illness being legit in this whole thread (even though I TOTALLY think psychiatry is VERY VERY flawed), and it seems like you came in to the thread and didn't even read my posts and assumed I was saying I think mental illness doesn't exist.

Please read my posts in the future before you assume what I am saying, because I was saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of that.

Haha, you totally got me there xD. I did skim your first post, though haha.
 
I don’t disagree that Canada is a very free Country in many ways but not in the area of Psychiatry. The moment I walked in to be assessed, the psych already had it out for me simply because he didn’t like how I looked and so he Certified me under the Mental Health Act. Happened to several inmates I spoke to.

LGBTQ has only left the DSM not too long ago and treatment sessions for these victims we hear “survivor” stories on the news still to this very day. This part is undeniable. Some conditions in the DSM SHOULD be treated while some I believe SHOULD NOT OR TREATED TO A LESSER DEGREE.

My question or argument is that yes the power imbalance is TOO damn much. I’m going to go through a Civil Liberties Lawyer who does Pro Bono work to fight for damages. And that is real. Peace.

Well that's good that you are getting a lawyer if you've been mistreated.

So you DO agree that mental illness is not a myth and that psychiatry overall has some good things to offer?

Ok.

I just think it's important to realize that lots of people suffer from some pretty serious mental health problems and would be in a lot of trouble if they didn't have psychiatrists to turn to.

They can and do sometimes abuse their power, and you seem to have been on the receiving end, but in general I don't think that your average patient/psychiatrist relationship, in ANY country, is USUALLY one where the psychiatrist is out to abuse his power and lock the patient up.

I also kind of think there might be more to the story you aren't telling, but that's obviously your right not to write about whatever you have left out, but it just sounds like there must have been something you said or did or a certain way you acted that got your psychiatrist to think he had to take such strong action.

The power imbalance may be too much where you live or in your situation, but I've seen psychiatrists my whole life and while some of them have been assholes, I always have the choice to walk out the door and see someone else.

And I just don't think that psychiatry is out to get people who are "not normal" as that would be too broad a statement.

It's just that there are already a lot of people who really do think mental illness is a myth and who think psychiatry is such a scam that it shouldn't exist, and if that were the case a lot of people would be in a lot of trouble.
 
For the sake of curiosity, recently, in Brazil, it was approved a law that allows the government to intern homeless drug addicts (those who literally live on the streets), namely crack addiction, which is a public health problem in Brazil, because of the very low prices ($ 1 for a rock) and availability (it is everywhere, very easy to buy).

Needless to say that this is a controversial measure, but somehow I support it because the situation is out of control. Crack addiction makes people lose their minds, two passersby were killed by a cracker last week, because he was psychotic. As they are homeless, they buy the cheapest rocks containing many residual chemical solvents, which is an extra contribution to paranoia.

On the other hand, thinking socially, it is terrible for a democracy that people are being forcibly locked up

I would NOT support that law at all because I believe all drugs should be legal if you are an adult and you aren't driving under the influence, and even as bad as crack can be, it doesn't necessarily make you insane, nor do I think it's fair to lock someone up for using any drug, whether you are locking them up in a mental hospital or a prison.

That doesn't sound like a law that is necessarily there to help the crack addicts and more like they made the law just to make some quick money.
 
@Opi_Kid_Rock : no offense, cause I could be wrong, but while I bet psychiatrists have mistreated you, I think you also are in denial that you have some form of mental illness and that's why you want so badly to attack psychiatrists.

Every story has a bit from side A and a bit from side B: your ideas from side A may be that psychiatrists in your area forcibly admit people who don't totally deserve it, but I have a feeling there's a side B that you have left out on purpose that involves you doing and saying some things that are not just "not normal" and which psychiatrists in ANY country might admit you for.

I don't mean to be a dick or anything, but I have a pretty good sense for a story that isn't fully being told when I hear one, and yours is not a full story.

I think you said or did more that made you seem like a threat to yourself or someone else and now you want to attack psychiatry for it, and if you've really been a threat to yourself or others then that's not totally fair (albeit, IMO people shouldn't be admitted for being suicidal, but that's not the case now.)

And while psychiatry is very highly flawed, if that is at all true then the only one you are hurting is yourself.

I'm kind of drunk and high now, but I've got my issues and don't deny them, despite never having been admitted.

If you are in denial about those you have then it's gonna catch up to you.

Peace.
 
I would NOT support that law at all because I believe all drugs should be legal if you are an adult and you aren't driving under the influence, and even as bad as crack can be, it doesn't necessarily make you insane, nor do I think it's fair to lock someone up for using any drug, whether you are locking them up in a mental hospital or a prison.

That doesn't sound like a law that is necessarily there to help the crack addicts and more like they made the law just to make some quick money.

Man, you cannot make all drugs legal. There is no sense, socially. The society is not mature enough to lead with drugs like cocaine, crack is even worse. This simply would create a social chaos: overdoses, addicts, and so on.

I am seeing this on the streets with the crackheads. When you say "you are an adult" you probably have a picture of a person from a rich country in your mind. This is not the reality in South America. These addicts, they are in misery, they eat trash, they never went to schools, it is the most humiliating human situation that you can imagine. Other people treat street dogs in a better way, they are treated like rats and some of them even live in the sewers.

These persons they use crack 24 h, non-stop. They easily kill someone for a rock and they are constantly doing this.
 
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