Mental Health The Myth of Mental Illness

[Mycophile]

Man, you cannot make all drugs legal. There is no sense, socially. The society is not mature enough to lead with drugs like cocaine, crack is even worse. This simply would create a social chaos: overdoses, addicts, and so on.

I am seeing this on the streets with the crackheads. When you say "you are an adult" you probably have a picture of a person from a rich country in your mind. This is not the reality in South America. These addicts, they are in misery, they eat trash, they never went to schools, it is the most humiliating human situation that you can imagine. Other people treat street dogs in a better way, they are treated like rats and some of them even live in the sewers.

These persons they use crack 24 h, non-stop. They easily kill someone for a rock and they are constantly doing this.

Well I understand why you'd feel that way, but even if it was chaos if we legalized all drugs, do you REALLY think the answer is locking people up in prison because they want to smoke crack or do heroin or whatever?

Do you think it's fair and morally just to take someone, even if they are a complete scumbag, and lock them up in prison for many years with rapists and murderers just because they like to smoke crack and shoot heroin?

What if this person has NEVER hurt anyone else in their entire life, but they just like to sit around and get fucked up on hard drugs?

You think they deserve punishment for that??!!

I don't and I don't think that's fair and I think if they want they should be able to do whatever drugs they want.

I know you and I are not from the same country, and I have never been to South America, but I have at least seen specials on TV showing what a lot of bad addicts are like in all parts of the world whether it's the poor parts of the U.S. or South America or Europe etc. I have seen how junkies look and toothless meth heads etc, and yeah, they are all messed up, but it's wrong to imprison them for choosing to put something bad in their bodies if they are really not hurting anyone else.

And what confuses me is that you say "other people treat dogs in a better way" and "it's a humiliating situation" etc etc...but then how is having drugs be illegal not making the situation EVEN WORSE and how is it not making these crackheads and junkies suffer WORSE humiliation??

Because what happens here and many other countries, probably yours as well, is we have the police abuse and arrest all those crackheads and junkies and throw them in prison even if they haven't hurt anyone or maybe they have stolen money before but mostly they are just junkies or dealers and may never have committed a violent crime. The police abuse them and throw them in prison with REALLY horrible people like rapists and murderers and then what happens is that it is even EASIER for the junkies to keep doing their drugs in prison because all the prisons have drugs and it's easy to get high in prison.

So then they keep doing the same shit in prison and maybe they get raped by other prisoners or beaten by both prisoners and evil corrupt prison guards and if they are lucky to live long enough to get out or get parol PRISON HAS MADE THEM INTO EVEN WORSE PEOPLE ONCE THEY GET BACK OUT ON THE STREET!!

They probably get even MORE criminal connections while locked up, join gangs so that they can survive and then they stay in the same gangs once they hit the streets and prison basically becomes like college for criminals who were only petty criminals before, but prison teaches them how to graduate from lower level crimes to worse crimes and become even more dangerous.

People come out worse than when they come in man!!

And the government WANTS IT THAT WAY!!

The prison system is funded by arresting non violent drug offenders and our prisons are over crowded with them when they should really be for the worst criminals like rapists and murderers.

They use that money to fund all sorts of corrupt enterprises.

So I'm sorry man, but yeah, I think all drugs should be legal for 18 and older if they are not driving under the influence and using in the privacy of their own homes.

Its' really only the very worst addicts who are addicted to heroin, pain pills, crack and meth who will commit crimes for their drug habits, maybe Coke or PCP sometimes, but not most drugs. Not weed or psychedelics or Ketamine or Ecstasy etc.

And still, I think if a drug user commits another crime to make money for their habit, like kills someone or mugs them or whatever, then they should go to prison for THAT crime, but NOT for the drugs.

I mean, I think if we legalize all drugs then there will probably be a bunch of people who will die from overdosing on the worst drugs like Heroin and Meth, but those people are going to get their hands on it anyways so why stop them from doing something so long as it hurts no one else??


I mean...even IF I was going to play devil's advocate and say that not all drugs should be 100% legal (and I DO think they should be...) the most I'd say we could do is the following:

1) ONLY the VERY worst drugs would be illegal like Heroin/Fent, Meth, Crack, PCP, probably not even coke or pain pills.

2) THEN if someone was caught doing or selling those drugs, even though I REALLY think they should be allowed to do them if they want...to play devils advocate, I'd say that MAYBE they could be forcibly locked up IN REHABS and forced to get clean and not allowed out until clean and no longer a danger to others for like a few months but NEVER SHOULD THEY BE LOCKED UP IN PRISON OR CHARGED WITH A CRIME!!!

Would you not agree??

I mean, If you want to argue that it would just be too chaotic, then at the very least we cannot have weed or psychedelics or drugs like ecstasy or benzos or Ketamine be illegal, and we can't lock drug users who DON'T hurt others up in prisons with rapists or murderers or give them criminal records.

If we want to help these people then locking them up is NOT going to help them. They'll have criminal records which will make it harder to find jobs, they'll be more violent from having to live with other violent criminals.


But overall, I DO still think we should have all drugs be legal for 18 and over, but we should have a lot of social programs and rehabs available to help the kind of really bad street addicts like the ones you are talking about.

I don't know how it would work, but I say we'd still let them use their drugs without being imprisoned but also make rehab and programs to help them get healthy and learn job skills available to them so they have a way to get out of the ghetto and the gang life they probably know.

All I know is 2 things: 1) I don't think it's fair for people to go to prison for deciding to put a drug in their body if they are NOT hurting anyone else 2) locking up non-violent drug users in prisons with rapists and murderers does NOT help rehabilitate them and usually just makes them worse and makes them suffer unnecessarily.

 

[Mycophile]

View attachment 13585

people smoking crack in the streets

Yeah man, but do you think putting them in prison with rapists and murderers is going to help them?

Do you know how easy it usually is to do those same drugs in prison?

I don't know about South America, but I watch a lot of specials on North American prisons and they are FULL of every kind of drug that everyone wants to use and the prison guards are usually corrupt and can be easily paid off to look the other way while the same crack heads and junkies smoke crack and shoot Heroin with other criminals in prison.

Those same crackheads and junkies make even MORE criminal connections with gang members in order to survive and maintain those connections on the outside and learn how to become MORE dangerous.

Many non-violent drug users learn to become TRULY VIOLENT criminals in prison.

Prison ends up being like college for criminals where they learn how to become even worse.

You talk about how horrible these people are and how they are living in filth and I can see it is true, but then what they need is HELP NOT PRISON!!

Do you think locking them up with violent criminals is going to make them get clean or help them?

Do you think the drug laws in your country are working?

Cause i don't think they are working in the United States that's for sure...

Also, even though I think crack, meth and heroin are worse than alcohol, alcohol is more dangerous, both to the body and the types of crimes that drunk people commit, than MOST illegal drugs, and yet it is legal.

Many more people IMO get really drunk and commit violent crimes than people who illegally use drugs like Ecstasy, LSD, Weed, Shrooms, Ketamine, Benzos, Adderall, GHB, etc etc.

Alcohol is involved in more violent crimes than almost any other drug, yet it is legal.

So why do you believe that these other often less harmful drugs being kept illegal is going to make a difference?

We need to end the war on drugs once and for all.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

I don’t agree (in all senses) upon locking these people up. In addition, I believe I expressed myself unclearly; they are being locked up in hospitals for addicts (special houses created exclusively for them) and not in prisons. Actually it is a forced treatment. Legally, they are considered as “incapables”, just as people who have lost their capacities to administrate their lives financially (or whatever) because of a mental illness. They cannot be held responsible for their actions.

First of all they are victims of the system, so to speak. Namely, on account of Brazil’s social situation, collateral effects, such as miserable addicts on the streets killing people to get money for drugs, have appeared. Historically, Brazil was a Portugal’s exploitation colony; as a basis of comparison, the US was not properly a colony: it was a place where Calvinists from UK established themselves by creating a new fatherland. The inheritance of being a colony of exploitation remains not only in Brazil but also throughout South America, Africa, and Asia. This inheritance can be portrayed by thinking that these countries are still “colonies of exploitation” in some way in the modern world. For they consume shit in every respect, they are exploited in every respect. I’ve been to 20 countries, living in four of them at least one year, believe me. A simple example is a supermarket. If you go in a supermarket in France, Germany, UK, or other rich country from Western Europe in general and buy a product, for instance, a toothpaste, you will get a product with a quality equal to X, let’s suppose. So this same product in a supermarket in South America, or Eastern Europe (Hungary, Romania, Latvia, etc.) will have a quality equal to X/50, the difference is significant. I am saying this to show you that the actual situations of third world’s countries have their origins in remote times. To start as a colony of exploitation perpetuates the oligarchies and the exploitation, summing up.

Hereupon, there are these addicts and it is not the way you said: “they have the freedom to use drugs”. The freedom of a citizen ends when it begins interfering with the freedom of others citizens. I am not going to pay attention to your drug use (abuse) if it is not intervening with my life, but at the moment you start threatening me because of it now it is my problem too. Generalizing, if hundreds of people start interfering in the lives of hundreds of people, then there is a social problem. It is no longer a matter of freedom of action or freedom of speech: it is a matter of public security.

Therefore, this is the situation: due to the government’s negligence, the chaos is formed and now that it is formed, the government does not know how to proceed and, furthermore, something needs to be done immediately.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

anyone or maybe they have stolen money before but mostly they are just junkies or dealers and may never have committed a violent crime. The police abuse them and throw them in prison with REALLY horrible people like rapists and murderers and then what happens is that it is even EASIER for the junkies to keep doing their drugs in prison because all the prisons have drugs and it's easy to get high in prison.

There are some differences between dealers in Brazil and in Europe or in the US, for instance. I lived in VA during a year, so that’s my experience with the US. In the US, I’ve noticed that street dealers or dealers who are at a lower level on the business scale, they are not criminals in a broad sense, I mean, they are dealers but not necessarily thieves or murders. In Brazil, it is very likely that a dealer will be also involved in various violent crimes. It is almost a guarantee that they will be armed and if you mess with them even a little, they will kill you. It is a different context. In some cities, notably Rio de Janeiro, the situation is heavy. To give you an idea, a police helicopter was recently shot down by dealers carrying war guns. I am not lying and I will highlight this once more, a POLICE HELICOPTER.

By car, I can reach a favela in ~ 15 minutes. There, I can buy from my special dealer a very pure cocaine/crack. I mean, a diamond. But for most people, those who don’t have good contacts, they will go to what is called here “boca de fumo”. There you can buy, 0.3-0.5 g of ~65 % - 80 % of cocaine for $3 or a good quality rock for $1. It is an open market that pays the police “to be blind”. It is almost a store. In Brazil, the minimum age to be arrested is 18 years. Teenagers from 12 – 18 years old are arrested in special prisons, in order to be rehabilitated (in theory). Children under 12 years are not arrested in any situation. So you have one chance to find out who sell drugs in the bocas de fumo. The answer is obvious: children under 12 years old. This means that an eight-years-old kid sells me the purest crack rock, which, probably, an American will never see. These kids, 8, 9, 10 years old, they have guns, I am not speaking of revolvers, I am speaking of AK-47. At 15 years old, some of them are warriors of the crime, having killed dozens of people.

This is the portrait of a typical dealer in Brazil.

 

[LandsUnknown]

Man, you cannot make all drugs legal. There is no sense, socially. The society is not mature enough to lead with drugs like cocaine, crack is even worse. This simply would create a social chaos: overdoses, addicts, and so on.

I don't think that's exactly true. The only way that the social chaos sort of scenario would happen is if addictive drugs like cocaine and crack suddenly became popular among the general public and mainstream. Fortunately, that wouldn't happen if drugs were legalized or decriminalized, as this has not happened in countries that have ended prohibition. In fact, the number of people who use hard drugs is about the same under prohibition as it is without it. Prohibition on drugs leads to the illicit substances being impure and thus causing users of hard drugs to be unsure exactly how much they're taking, potentially consuming dangerous adulterants, and making use of the substance more dangerous. Plus, criminalization of drugs makes addicts less likely to seek treatment. And throwing people who use drugs in prison gives people criminal records that follow them for life, making it harder to land employment. And thus, causes people to be forced to turning to crime as a source of income. Which leads to more violent crime and theft. Some countries have legalized or decriminalized all drugs. And the rate of addiction has actually gone down as a result. Legalization is actually good for society, because people are going to use their drug(s) of choice whether they are legal or not. So, drug prohibition really serves no useful purpose.

 

[Mycophile]

I don’t agree (in all senses) upon locking these people up. In addition, I believe I expressed myself unclearly; they are being locked up in hospitals for addicts (special houses created exclusively for them) and not in prisons. Actually it is a forced treatment. Legally, they are considered as “incapables”, just as people who have lost their capacities to administrate their lives financially (or whatever) because of a mental illness. They cannot be held responsible for their actions.

First of all they are victims of the system, so to speak. Namely, on account of Brazil’s social situation, collateral effects, such as miserable addicts on the streets killing people to get money for drugs, have appeared. Historically, Brazil was a Portugal’s exploitation colony; as a basis of comparison, the US was not properly a colony: it was a place where Calvinists from UK established themselves by creating a new fatherland. The inheritance of being a colony of exploitation remains not only in Brazil but also throughout South America, Africa, and Asia. This inheritance can be portrayed by thinking that these countries are still “colonies of exploitation” in some way in the modern world. For they consume shit in every respect, they are exploited in every respect. I’ve been to 20 countries, living in four of them at least one year, believe me. A simple example is a supermarket. If you go in a supermarket in France, Germany, UK, or other rich country from Western Europe in general and buy a product, for instance, a toothpaste, you will get a product with a quality equal to X, let’s suppose. So this same product in a supermarket in South America, or Eastern Europe (Hungary, Romania, Latvia, etc.) will have a quality equal to X/50, the difference is significant. I am saying this to show you that the actual situations of third world’s countries have their origins in remote times. To start as a colony of exploitation perpetuates the oligarchies and the exploitation, summing up.

Hereupon, there are these addicts and it is not the way you said: “they have the freedom to use drugs”. The freedom of a citizen ends when it begins interfering with the freedom of others citizens. I am not going to pay attention to your drug use (abuse) if it is not intervening with my life, but at the moment you start threatening me because of it now it is my problem too. Generalizing, if hundreds of people start interfering in the lives of hundreds of people, then there is a social problem. It is no longer a matter of freedom of action or freedom of speech: it is a matter of public security.

Therefore, this is the situation: due to the government’s negligence, the chaos is formed and now that it is formed, the government does not know how to proceed and, furthermore, something needs to be done immediately.

Well, I'll give my opinion, which is very limited as far as your country cause I've never been there.

I also wanted to say that while I have never been to Brazil I have had an interest in Brazilian culture for a long time because I am a Brown Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and have done it more than half my life since I was 15 or 16 (I am 39 now) and so I have met a lot of Brazilian people in America, like the Gracie family. I took seminars from Royce Gracie when I was young and every belt I have gotten was through people given belts by Royce, Rickson or Relson, and I've known some good Brazilian people, plus I think the women from your country are the most beautiful in the world HAHA. I also love the way Portuguese sounds as a language, and I teach English to foreigners so I hear a lot of accents.

That said, I would be afraid to go to Brazil because of what you have said about how violent it is. I've seen movies like City of God about Rio De Janeiro and if that is even close to true to the situation I'd be terrified to go there with all the favelas and crime.

So, it seems you say that NOT all drug users/dealers are locked up in prisons but instead in rehabs and NOT given criminal records??

Ok, if that is true it's not SOO bad...but still, I do not feel it is right for us to tell people that they can't use drugs if they want to.

But on the other hand, I see the situation that you are talking about where IF drug users are really violent because the situation is such that because of the social environment they have to be...and their using or selling drugs risks YOUR life...then that is not ok, but the situation where you are is not the situation in all other countries as you know.

In America, it is not usually like that. I go find a dealer and even though I don't buy heroin and only weed or safer drugs, and I never would do heroin, I know I COULD find it if I wanted to and would not probably be in a risky situation, but I know I come from a privileged country where that is easier.

I know what you mean about Brazil as a colony. I have read about it due to my interest in Brazil and I heard that your country was the very last to abolish slavery in 1888 so there's a lot of the slave mentality that remains and a lot of families who descended from slave migrants from Angola, Africa who were taken advantage of by lighter skinned peoples who came from countries like Portugal and Italy. I have also read that in Brazil a lot of your social status is often defined by how light your skin is because there are so many different skin tones from people's intermixing from different countries, and that is a REALLY horrible thing. I actually believe that the intermixing of people in countries like yours is what makes the people some of the most attractive.

But I can see how that has had a horrible impact. I have read about what you are talking about and heard friends talk about it: some friends of mine who teach Jiu-Jitsu went to Brazil....either Rio or Sao Paulo, not sure which one, to teach BJJ, and had to cross through the Favelas to teach.

They said they had a Brazilian guide who was telling them what it was going to be like before they went there and he said this: (first he turned to the guy who was Puerto Rican and darker skinned...) "Ok, if we get into trouble, nobody say anything and you will probably be ok if they don't hear your voice cause you are Latino so they might think you are Brazilian." Then he turned to my other friend who is white and looks European and said "You look European though, so if we get into trouble, then you are dead." Just like that. He'd be DEAD.

He said they went through a favela and saw people with assault rifles and their guide said "Don't worry, they are only here to protect us from the cops" and my friend was like "That made me feel MUCH more scared, even though he meant to assure me" LOL.

Another friend of mine said a poor homeless guy TRIED TO MUG HIM BY ATTACKING HIM WITH A FORK and that the guy was such a weak crackhead or junkie that he just pulled the fork out of the guy's hand and then a cop saw and came over and said to my friend "Hey, do you want me to kick his ass for you?" And my friend was like "no, no...that's ok." SO....SCARY SITUATION you guys have...Very sorry about it...

I guess I should probably never go to your country right?

I wouldn't feel safe.

But the question then is: is there a way to let people use the drugs they want but still make sure they DON'T hurt other people??

I don't see why there could not be.

Let me remind you of this: all the little kids who are selling those drugs you speak of? THEY WOULD LOSE MOST OF THEIR SALES IF THE DRUGS THEY SELL WERE LEGAL AND CHEAPER.

How is that 12 year old going to sell you crack if you know he is selling it for a higher price and you have to risk your life to buy it in the favela if instead you can go to a drug store and buy it legally and NOT risk your life and maybe even buy it cheaper???

You would go to the drug store to buy it right? You don't want to risk your life.

So you go to the store and buy it if it is legal, maybe it is even cheaper, then the gangs who sell those drugs lose money and when they lose money they lose power and they make fewer drug sales and there are fewer murders.

Don't you think it would work that way if they decriminalized drugs in your country?

I know it has made other countries less violent like Amsterdam, parts of America, I THINK even Portugal too, and several others.

 

[Mycophile]

anyone or maybe they have stolen money before but mostly they are just junkies or dealers and may never have committed a violent crime. The police abuse them and throw them in prison with REALLY horrible people like rapists and murderers and then what happens is that it is even EASIER for the junkies to keep doing their drugs in prison because all the prisons have drugs and it's easy to get high in prison.

There are some differences between dealers in Brazil and in Europe or in the US, for instance. I lived in VA during a year, so that’s my experience with the US. In the US, I’ve noticed that street dealers or dealers who are at a lower level on the business scale, they are not criminals in a broad sense, I mean, they are dealers but not necessarily thieves or murders. In Brazil, it is very likely that a dealer will be also involved in various violent crimes. It is almost a guarantee that they will be armed and if you mess with them even a little, they will kill you. It is a different context. In some cities, notably Rio de Janeiro, the situation is heavy. To give you an idea, a police helicopter was recently shot down by dealers carrying war guns. I am not lying and I will highlight this once more, a POLICE HELICOPTER.

By car, I can reach a favela in ~ 15 minutes. There, I can buy from my special dealer a very pure cocaine/crack. I mean, a diamond. But for most people, those who don’t have good contacts, they will go to what is called here “boca de fumo”. There you can buy, 0.3-0.5 g of ~65 % - 80 % of cocaine for $3 or a good quality rock for $1. It is an open market that pays the police “to be blind”. It is almost a store. In Brazil, the minimum age to be arrested is 18 years. Teenagers from 12 – 18 years old are arrested in special prisons, in order to be rehabilitated (in theory). Children under 12 years are not arrested in any situation. So you have one chance to find out who sell drugs in the bocas de fumo. The answer is obvious: children under 12 years old. This means that an eight-years-old kid sells me the purest crack rock, which, probably, an American will never see. These kids, 8, 9, 10 years old, they have guns, I am not speaking of revolvers, I am speaking of AK-47. At 15 years old, some of them are warriors of the crime, having killed dozens of people.

This is the portrait of a typical dealer in Brazil.

Yeah, that is REALLY horrible and you will see from my last post that even though I have never been to Brazil (and now I am kind of afraid to ever go...) that I know a little about how it can be from stories from friends and things I have read.

But AGAIN: If they decriminalized/legalized drugs so you could just go to a store and buy them openly and maybe even for CHEAPER than the dealers who sell those drugs, then don't you think those violent criminals would start to lose their drug sales and lose money and then the gangs would lose power and there would be less violence??

Even those without good connections would NOT have to go into the favelas and risk their lives because they could just go to a store to buy their crack, heroin, coke, whatever, and be safe.

I know it sounds crazy to everyone to have a drug store with legit people selling you hard drugs, but what is obviously MUCH crazier is the kind of crime you have to deal with.

I would almost guarantee that if we legalize all drugs, even in your country, and people can just sell them in a normal store, that the gangs would lose money and power and there would be a HUGE drop in violence. It has worked in many countries already.

I bet those same guys who sell those drugs in the favelas would FREAK OUT if they knew suddenly the same drugs they sell are going to be sold legally!!! They'd be SOO pissed off that they are going to lose their customers!!

I know some assholes in the U.S. who are even against weed legalization cause they sell weed and don't want to lose their customers.

Prohibition has NEVER worked EVER in ANY country.

The second you make something illegal you make it MORE dangerous to buy that thing, and you know this well because of the danger people must go through to buy and sell drugs in your country.

When you legalize something you take away the stigma and you take away a lot of the danger.

So to me, the situation in your country really sounds like it would be VERY much helped with drug decriminalization.

How would what I am saying not make things safer than they are if people would no longer have to go into the favelas to buy their drugs??

 

[Mycophile]

@Jose Ribas de Silva: Also man, under these kinds of laws it could be legal to sell those same drugs if you have a license, and legal to buy them ONLY from a legit store where the people selling have licenses, but ILLEGAL for street dealers to sell those drugs or for people to buy from them!!

That way, the only legal way to do it is to do it in a way that is NOT associated with criminal activity and gangs and it would be safer.

For example, I have been to Amsterdam, and there it is legal to sell weed if you own a coffee shop, and legal to buy from a coffee shop, but illegal to sell it or buy it on the streets, and even though this is weed and not hard drugs, and a more peaceful society in Amsterdam than in Brazil, it still works.

This same theory has worked in other countries, and I think I heard that in another South American country like Uruguay or something you can know go to a legal clinic for heroin. I know they do it in some countries.

I still think it would be much safer and better to legalize drugs for sale under certain situations, but you need a license and street sales would be illegal.

Then there would be LESS violent crime associated with the drugs.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

I also wanted to say that while I have never been to Brazil I have had an interest in Brazilian culture for a long time because I am a Brown Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and have done it more than half my life since I was 15 or 16 (I am 39 now) and so I have met a lot of Brazilian people in America, like the Gracie family. I took seminars from Royce Gracie when I was young and every belt I have gotten was through people given belts by Royce, Rickson or Relson, and I've known some good Brazilian people, plus I think the women from your country are the most beautiful in the world HAHA. I also love the way Portuguese sounds as a language, and I teach English to foreigners so I hear a lot of accents.

That said, I would be afraid to go to Brazil because of what you have said about how violent it is. I've seen movies like City of God about Rio De Janeiro and if that is even close to true to the situation I'd be terrified to go there with all the favelas and crime.


Sorry for the delayed answer, I have entered in a cocaine binge on Friday and I am going to finish it today.

In order to understand Brazil, it is necessary to understand, in the first place, some geographical/demographic features. Brazil is a continental country, very heterogenic and this heterogeneousness arises from the manner that the ecosystems are distributed. In the North, there is the Amazon rainforest, so that this region has a very low demographic density, despite its large area. The Center-West region of Brazil has also a very low demographic density and a large area because it has a very large biome called “pantanal”, which is formed by a set of lowlands that are seasonally flooded. The Northeast is a semi-arid region, with very low precipitation rates. The industrial regions are the South and Southeast (main cities Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo). Why am I saying these things? Because although Brazil is a continental country, most of it it is not very inviting (to establish residence I mean), considering the environment. Of course, this has an intense impact on the social and economic development, starting with the low demographic densities and finishing with the low industrialization/trade rates.

So what does Brazil offer in terms of tourism? Beaches and bitches (=P), incredibly natural environments, a unique culture, an opened society when it comes to sex, drugs, and samba. Very high quality music, preserved historical cities from colonial times with remarkable architectures. Is it safe to travel to Brazil? It is, except for Rio de Janeiro. Rio, unfortunately, is currently experiencing a chaos, it is a very dangerous city, avoid it. The reality in Rio nowadays it is like the City of God, man, it is sad but true, the movie is a good portrait of the reality.

Are you used to international travels? I mean, in Brazil there will certainly have the language barrier. Depending on the city, in general, most people will not speak or understand English. I’ve met many tourists in Brazil from different countries who are able to get a lot of fun without risking their lives. I mean, there are some rules, behaviors that need to be practiced. It is the same behavior necessary in other South America countries, in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, Paris (hahah), London (hahah), San Petersburg (hahah), Los Angeles (hahah)… If you know how to behave, you will be good. The best place man, it is the Northeast coast. Undoubtedly, there you will find one of the most beautiful beaches in the world, competing with South Africa’s and Oceania’s beaches. There, it is a very safe place, the economy is directed to tourism, so you find paradises, with excellent hotels, structured and safe cities, wonderful women, by the way.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

So, it seems you say that NOT all drug users/dealers are locked up in prisons but instead in rehabs and NOT given criminal records??

Actually, only homeless crack heads are being interned. Dealers, in the criminal sense, are arrested and criminally prosecuted

To be admitted in a drug hospital against one’s will, it is not good, certainly, but slowly die on the streets because of drugs it is also not good. Which is better?

*In this case, I am not sure, but I don’t think there will be “a criminal record” for these addicts

 

[jose ribas da silva]

I know what you mean about Brazil as a colony. I have read about it due to my interest in Brazil and I heard that your country was the very last to abolish slavery in 1888 so there's a lot of the slave mentality that remains and a lot of families who descended from slave migrants from Angola, Africa who were taken advantage of by lighter skinned peoples who came from countries like Portugal and Italy. I have also read that in Brazil a lot of your social status is often defined by how light your skin is because there are so many different skin tones from people's intermixing from different countries, and that is a REALLY horrible thing. I actually believe that the intermixing of people in countries like yours is what makes the people some of the most attractive.

This is completely true. There is a heritage of slavery in Brazil. It is still present, subtly, however. But it can be seen in how the police treat whites and blacks and in other similar situations. Unfortunately, I believe this mentality is everywhere, in the US and Europe, I have seen many cases with my own eyes.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

I actually believe that the intermixing of people in countries like yours is what makes the people some of the most attractive.

That’s true, in Brazil, the most beautiful stereotype, for women, my opinion, it is the mixture of Indians with Europeans, which is very common here. In addition, biology teaches us that the more mixed, the greater the genetic capacity of an organism, so let's mix

 

[jose ribas da silva]

They said they had a Brazilian guide who was telling them what it was going to be like before they went there and he said this: (first he turned to the guy who was Puerto Rican and darker skinned...) "Ok, if we get into trouble, nobody say anything and you will probably be ok if they don't hear your voice cause you are Latino so they might think you are Brazilian." Then he turned to my other friend who is white and looks European and said "You look European though, so if we get into trouble, then you are dead." Just like that. He'd be DEAD.

He said they went through a favela and saw people with assault rifles and their guide said "Don't worry, they are only here to protect us from the cops" and my friend was like "That made me feel MUCH more scared, even though he meant to assure me" LOL.

Another friend of mine said a poor homeless guy TRIED TO MUG HIM BY ATTACKING HIM WITH A FORK and that the guy was such a weak crackhead or junkie that he just pulled the fork out of the guy's hand and then a cop saw and came over and said to my friend "Hey, do you want me to kick his ass for you?" And my friend was like "no, no...that's ok." SO....SCARY SITUATION you guys have...Very sorry about it...



A problem in South American countries is police corruption. In Rio de Janeiro this is a very strong feature, these corrupt cops are called “militia”. They are a parallel power, I will say more about this later, in another opportunity, because it is a long and interesting political feature. However, your commentary reminded me a funny history.

In 2017, I lived 3 months in Geneva (Switzerland) to work. I don’t know whether you have been to Switzerland, but if you breath there, you have the feeling of being rich.

At that time, I was at the height of my cocaine addiction. Moreover, my work there was tough, very hard to accomplish, and my boss was a motherfucker, no manners.

I could find cannabis and MDMA there, but not cocaine so that my withdrawal symptoms were heavy. Basically, I was very pissed off and my boss was not collaborating. One day, we had a discussion, on a Friday, more specifically. So I went to my dealer, got some MDMA and I was decided to party heavy, nevertheless, I had hate in my eyes, extremely angry at everything, wanting to die.

At night, around midnight, I took the MDMA. Walking to a nightclub, a guy tries to rob me. At first, I could recognize that that situation was an assault, I mean, the guy was wearing nice clothes, good physical appearance as well. Suddenly, he gripped my arm tightly and he had noticed that I was a foreigner.

Man, see this, I use to smoke crack in favelas, with armed kids, with dangers dealers, a guy try to rob me in Switzerland without any gun? Without even a knife? Wearing better clothes than I was? On one of the worst days in my life? A cocaine addict without cocaine in a different country high on MDMA with the angriest mindset?

The situation ended with me punching the guy and stealing 20 francs from him, which, later, were used to buy more drugs

 

[Mycophile]

I also wanted to say that while I have never been to Brazil I have had an interest in Brazilian culture for a long time because I am a Brown Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and have done it more than half my life since I was 15 or 16 (I am 39 now) and so I have met a lot of Brazilian people in America, like the Gracie family. I took seminars from Royce Gracie when I was young and every belt I have gotten was through people given belts by Royce, Rickson or Relson, and I've known some good Brazilian people, plus I think the women from your country are the most beautiful in the world HAHA. I also love the way Portuguese sounds as a language, and I teach English to foreigners so I hear a lot of accents.

That said, I would be afraid to go to Brazil because of what you have said about how violent it is. I've seen movies like City of God about Rio De Janeiro and if that is even close to true to the situation I'd be terrified to go there with all the favelas and crime.


Sorry for the delayed answer, I have entered in a cocaine binge on Friday and I am going to finish it today.

In order to understand Brazil, it is necessary to understand, in the first place, some geographical/demographic features. Brazil is a continental country, very heterogenic and this heterogeneousness arises from the manner that the ecosystems are distributed. In the North, there is the Amazon rainforest, so that this region has a very low demographic density, despite its large area. The Center-West region of Brazil has also a very low demographic density and a large area because it has a very large biome called “pantanal”, which is formed by a set of lowlands that are seasonally flooded. The Northeast is a semi-arid region, with very low precipitation rates. The industrial regions are the South and Southeast (main cities Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo). Why am I saying these things? Because although Brazil is a continental country, most of it it is not very inviting (to establish residence I mean), considering the environment. Of course, this has an intense impact on the social and economic development, starting with the low demographic densities and finishing with the low industrialization/trade rates.

So what does Brazil offer in terms of tourism? Beaches and bitches (=P), incredibly natural environments, a unique culture, an opened society when it comes to sex, drugs, and samba. Very high quality music, preserved historical cities from colonial times with remarkable architectures. Is it safe to travel to Brazil? It is, except for Rio de Janeiro. Rio, unfortunately, is currently experiencing a chaos, it is a very dangerous city, avoid it. The reality in Rio nowadays it is like the City of God, man, it is sad but true, the movie is a good portrait of the reality.

Are you used to international travels? I mean, in Brazil there will certainly have the language barrier. Depending on the city, in general, most people will not speak or understand English. I’ve met many tourists in Brazil from different countries who are able to get a lot of fun without risking their lives. I mean, there are some rules, behaviors that need to be practiced. It is the same behavior necessary in other South America countries, in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, Paris (hahah), London (hahah), San Petersburg (hahah), Los Angeles (hahah)… If you know how to behave, you will be good. The best place man, it is the Northeast coast. Undoubtedly, there you will find one of the most beautiful beaches in the world, competing with South Africa’s and Oceania’s beaches. There, it is a very safe place, the economy is directed to tourism, so you find paradises, with excellent hotels, structured and safe cities, wonderful women, by the way.

I'm not really that used to traveling internationally, and I never like to travel alone.

Sounds like a fun country to go to if you are able to be safe, but I have no plans to go anytime soon.

Who knows, maybe someday.

Yeah, City of God is a great movie but it certainly makes Rio look scary.

I always thought Sao Paulo was even more dangerous than Rio?

My mom is a therapist and one of her patients was Brazilian and from Sao Paulo and said that many years ago her husband was murdered and the way she described it happening was just terrifying and makes me never want to go near there.

She said her husband was driving in Sao Paulo and was caught in a traffic jam, and some gang members just came up to his car, pointed guns at him and made him get out, robbed him, and just shot him dead.

She was getting therapy from my mom to try to learn to deal with mourning her husband and the PTSD she had from it happening, and she had literally fled Brazil because of the violence.

According to her, in certain parts of Brazil, like Sao Paulo, the crime and gangs are so bad they will just literally rob you and kill you for nothing other than your watch or wallet without even thinking about it.

Sounds really bad...

 

[Mycophile]

They said they had a Brazilian guide who was telling them what it was going to be like before they went there and he said this: (first he turned to the guy who was Puerto Rican and darker skinned...) "Ok, if we get into trouble, nobody say anything and you will probably be ok if they don't hear your voice cause you are Latino so they might think you are Brazilian." Then he turned to my other friend who is white and looks European and said "You look European though, so if we get into trouble, then you are dead." Just like that. He'd be DEAD.

He said they went through a favela and saw people with assault rifles and their guide said "Don't worry, they are only here to protect us from the cops" and my friend was like "That made me feel MUCH more scared, even though he meant to assure me" LOL.

Another friend of mine said a poor homeless guy TRIED TO MUG HIM BY ATTACKING HIM WITH A FORK and that the guy was such a weak crackhead or junkie that he just pulled the fork out of the guy's hand and then a cop saw and came over and said to my friend "Hey, do you want me to kick his ass for you?" And my friend was like "no, no...that's ok." SO....SCARY SITUATION you guys have...Very sorry about it...



A problem in South American countries is police corruption. In Rio de Janeiro this is a very strong feature, these corrupt cops are called “militia”. They are a parallel power, I will say more about this later, in another opportunity, because it is a long and interesting political feature. However, your commentary reminded me a funny history.

In 2017, I lived 3 months in Geneva (Switzerland) to work. I don’t know whether you have been to Switzerland, but if you breath there, you have the feeling of being rich.

At that time, I was at the height of my cocaine addiction. Moreover, my work there was tough, very hard to accomplish, and my boss was a motherfucker, no manners.

I could find cannabis and MDMA there, but not cocaine so that my withdrawal symptoms were heavy. Basically, I was very pissed off and my boss was not collaborating. One day, we had a discussion, on a Friday, more specifically. So I went to my dealer, got some MDMA and I was decided to party heavy, nevertheless, I had hate in my eyes, extremely angry at everything, wanting to die.

At night, around midnight, I took the MDMA. Walking to a nightclub, a guy tries to rob me. At first, I could recognize that that situation was an assault, I mean, the guy was wearing nice clothes, good physical appearance as well. Suddenly, he gripped my arm tightly and he had noticed that I was a foreigner.

Man, see this, I use to smoke crack in favelas, with armed kids, with dangers dealers, a guy try to rob me in Switzerland without any gun? Without even a knife? Wearing better clothes than I was? On one of the worst days in my life? A cocaine addict without cocaine in a different country high on MDMA with the angriest mindset?

The situation ended with me punching the guy and stealing 20 francs from him, which, later, were used to buy more drugs

Damn, that's a pretty intense story.

I would like to go to Switzerland.

It looks like a very beautiful country and probably also a safe place to travel.

 

[Mycophile]

@jose ribas da silva so see, even though we got off onto a different discussion about Brazil's culture, which I do find very interesting, I still don't see why decriminalizing even hard drugs in all countries, including your own, would not work.

Why do you still think that legalizing/decriminalizing drugs would be bad?

I mean, everything you talked about, with little kids selling drugs and having to go to the dangerous parts of the city to buy drugs and the crime associated with drugs and how most dealers also commit violent crimes and other crimes, all that could be changed with legalization.

Even though the idea of their being government owned stores where it is legal to buy coke, crack, heroin, meth etc sounds pretty insane, don't you agree with me that if that were possible, in Brazil and in other countries, and people really could legally walk into stores to buy their drugs, that it would make the situation better by ending the monopoly that those gangs have on drugs, and making it possible for people to buy drugs without having to deal with violent criminals??

No one will ever do it, ESPECIALLY with the hard drugs like crack, coke, heroin, meth, and few countries have even been willing to do it with weed, but in the rare situations where various drugs have been decriminalized, like weed in Amsterdam (I went there many years back and it was SOOOO fun), I think weed and certain other drugs are legal in Uruguay, I think Portugal has decriminalized some stuff, Canada etc...in most of those cases decriminalizing weed and sometimes even a couple other drugs has had a favorable impact on lowering the crime.

Even though it seems impossible like no one would do it, I would probably bet money that if suddenly as of tomorrow there were drug stores in Brazil where all those crackheads could go to buy their drugs legally, that suddenly within no time there would be a HUGE decrease in violent crimes and violent crimes associated with drugs:

What would probably happen would be, slowly but surely: (IF the crackheads and junkies could actually afford to buy drugs at the store), they'd start buying their drugs legally at this crazy legal drug store, and the gangs selling drugs in the favelas would start to lose money. As they started to lose money they'd lose influence and power. People who might otherwise have gotten robbed or killed or taken advantage of trying to buy drugs in the favelas would be able to be safe and buy and use their drugs in peace.

Fewer people would die, fewer people would be robbed, and things would generally be much better.

Don't you agree??

I cannot possibly imagine why in almost any country decriminalizing drugs, even the very hardest drugs, would not end up lowering crime.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

I don’t support, by any means, the legalization of hard drugs. It is not because I am a hypocrite, that is, a drug addict who does not support drug legalization, on the contrary, it is as I have been saying: this would imply social chaos

There would be situations like teenagers talking: “hey I’ve heard that someone smoked crack and I’ve heard that it was very nice, let’s do it, just once will not be dangerous”

My point is: society it is not mature enough to deal with drugs, especially hard drugs. There is no meaning in giving people access to heroin, cocaine, crack, and similars. Most people cannot experiment these drugs not even once. Several collateral effects may occur, such as overdoses, car accidents, more violence, suicide, paranoid people jumping off bridges, and so on. Many normal people would become addicted. We can use your country as an example, see what happened when the population had easy access to hard drugs; I am speaking of the opioid crisis. Many ordinary people became addicted, they didn’t know anything about drugs, they were not educated about this subject, they were not bluelighters, however, they took them innocently and they got trapped.

This is a very complex theme that cannot be generalized. In developed countries, which factors lead people to use drugs? They are not equal to those of poor countries. In Brazil, misery is a determining factor (for crackheads), which is not the case in Holland. Even among developed countries, the factors will not be the same. I’ve been seeing excellent public measures in Portugal, Denmark, etc., but the specific social situations of these countries have allowed them to be implemented. In the US, even weed is not a unanimity among the states, so imagine the chaos with hard drugs. Moreover, how would these drugs be produced? By the government? Private companies? How would they be commercialized? Under which kinds of laws?

On the other hand, I support two things: (1) legalization of soft drugs: weed, mushrooms, DMT, LSD, MDMA (under strict conditions); (2) decriminalization, I believe small portions should not be prosecuted criminally (including all drugs in this set)

 

[jose ribas da silva]

One of these days I have remembered of this thread. I have met a girl, and we did cocaine together. I was in a bar with her and her friends. Everyone was high on cocaine, other people in the bar too (a bar frequented by cocaine users), average age of 25 years. They were sniffing ordinary cocaine, which, in Brazil, it is unbelievably cheap and the quality is acceptable, it is possible to enjoy it.

Why was cocaine so present in that environment? Clearly: because it is cheap and accessible. If it was not accessible, young people would not be doing it.

Some of these fresh young persons, they are already lost, I know, doing the drug two times per week, things like that, it is the beginning of the end.

Therefore, after this portrait, don’t you think that the legalization of hard drugs would accentuate this panorama, turning it into a critical one?

 

[Mycophile]

I don’t support, by any means, the legalization of hard drugs. It is not because I am a hypocrite, that is, a drug addict who does not support drug legalization, on the contrary, it is as I have been saying: this would imply social chaos

There would be situations like teenagers talking: “hey I’ve heard that someone smoked crack and I’ve heard that it was very nice, let’s do it, just once will not be dangerous”

My point is: society it is not mature enough to deal with drugs, especially hard drugs. There is no meaning in giving people access to heroin, cocaine, crack, and similars. Most people cannot experiment these drugs not even once. Several collateral effects may occur, such as overdoses, car accidents, more violence, suicide, paranoid people jumping off bridges, and so on. Many normal people would become addicted. We can use your country as an example, see what happened when the population had easy access to hard drugs; I am speaking of the opioid crisis. Many ordinary people became addicted, they didn’t know anything about drugs, they were not educated about this subject, they were not bluelighters, however, they took them innocently and they got trapped.

This is a very complex theme that cannot be generalized. In developed countries, which factors lead people to use drugs? They are not equal to those of poor countries. In Brazil, misery is a determining factor (for crackheads), which is not the case in Holland. Even among developed countries, the factors will not be the same. I’ve been seeing excellent public measures in Portugal, Denmark, etc., but the specific social situations of these countries have allowed them to be implemented. In the US, even weed is not a unanimity among the states, so imagine the chaos with hard drugs. Moreover, how would these drugs be produced? By the government? Private companies? How would they be commercialized? Under which kinds of laws?

On the other hand, I support two things: (1) legalization of soft drugs: weed, mushrooms, DMT, LSD, MDMA (under strict conditions); (2) decriminalization, I believe small portions should not be prosecuted criminally (including all drugs in this set)

Ok, but then you would put people IN PRISON for using hard drugs??

Don't you think that makes it worse?

And how can you not admit that at least all the little 12 year old kids selling drugs in your favelas and shooting people with AK-47s would stop happening so much if gangs did not have control of the drugs??

You complained that your drug trade is controlled by violent gangs who kill and steal, but if you don't decriminalize those drugs then people can still do that.

You decriminalize them and the violence goes down.

I still disagree.

I think that most likely, there would be a long period of time where more people died from overdoses and accidents, but EVENTUALLY, people would start to learn and realize that those drugs are dangerous, and if they didn't, there would still be some casualties but the thing is THERE WILL ALWAYS BE CASUALTIES TO DRUG USE....whether they are overdoses, gang murders, etc.

The question is: will there be more problems if drugs are illegal and we have all these gangs and drug lords running the streets, or if they are decriminalized?

I say, it would be better if they were decriminalized.

As for our "opioid crisis", I have opinions on how we have handled it wrong, and actually in some ways how it has been created by the government, but it would take a while to discuss and I don't feel like it now.

I will say, I think every single time anyone is ever given a pain killer a doctor needs to tell them "This stuff CAN GET YOU HIGH AND IT FEELS GOOD BUT IS VERY ADDICTIVE SO BE CAREFUL."

I have had to Oxycodone and Hydrocodone for several severe injuries from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu like torn ACLs, and that was how I discovered they got me high, and i liked it but thankfully did not become addicted.

Still, no doctor ever told me "they get you high", and I think they should have.

I think doctors think if they tell you that then you will use them to get high, but if you DON'T know it is worse.

 

[Mycophile]

One of these days I have remembered of this thread. I have met a girl, and we did cocaine together. I was in a bar with her and her friends. Everyone was high on cocaine, other people in the bar too (a bar frequented by cocaine users), average age of 25 years. They were sniffing ordinary cocaine, which, in Brazil, it is unbelievably cheap and the quality is acceptable, it is possible to enjoy it.

Why was cocaine so present in that environment? Clearly: because it is cheap and accessible. If it was not accessible, young people would not be doing it.

Some of these fresh young persons, they are already lost, I know, doing the drug two times per week, things like that, it is the beginning of the end.

Therefore, after this portrait, don’t you think that the legalization of hard drugs would accentuate this panorama, turning it into a critical one?

Well, I did coke 13 times in college, and I think it's a SOMEWHAT dangerous drug...one I have said I will never do again, but not so bad like Meth, crack, Heroin, etc...but you can do it sometimes and it will not just ruin your life.

I have known many people who use a little bit of coke on the weekends for many years of their lives and are still healthy and have jobs.

I don't know why when you turn it into crack it becomes so different and more destructive.

I think because you smoke it with the baking powder the high is more intense and lasts less time so you want more right away and so it is much worse and I have never and will never ever smoke crack.

But alcohol is the same: it is everywhere and people use it all the time, AND ALCOHOL IS NOT THAT MUCH SAFER IF YOU DRINK A LOT, THAN COKE IS!!

I think that Coke is worse....but if you get drunk everynight (and I myself drink WAY too much also)....that is very very bad for you.

I think I am not fully aware of the damage I do to my body with alcohol cause it is legal but I know it's very bad.


Also, cigarettes are legal and very very dangerous, maybe as bad as coke in the long term or at least often lead to cancer.


So do you think we should make alcohol and cigarettes illegal??

My belief is: people are going to use whatever they are going to use regardless. We can make things harder for people to find, yes, but eventually people will find things if they try hard enough and it will be up to them to use them appropriately, and some will, and some will choose not to use at all, and some will not and they will die or have bad things happen, or maybe they use too much and learn their lesson.

Yes, it is kind of a bleak point of view, but I don't believe we can stop this by banning things.

It even becomes hard to discuss with things like guns now with all the increasing gun violence.

Part of me wants to see us at least making assault rifles illegal in my country like they are in many others, and the other part thinks it will not matter, but at least guns hurt OTHER people, not just the user.

So yeah, I'd probably say we should not have assault rifles legal for the civilian population, but the rest of the guns we need to let them have.

Overall, I don't believe making almost any objects illegal will stop people.

Every object can be misused or used correctly.

I think the more something is around and available the more people learn about it and how it can be dangerous, and some people will use it wrong, and some won't, but I do not think the answer is throwing non-violent drug users in prison with rapists and murderers, or allowing violent gangs to monopolize the drug trade so they can kill people and rob people.

All those people who get killed going into your favelas looking for hard drugs would stop and your gangs would lose money and power if drugs were decriminalized and I think the criminals need to lose money and power.