Opioids A possible remedy for opioid withdrawal

[DirtMonger]

When I wanna take a long break from my DOC I take loperamide hcl 2mg but I take 100 at a time with a Prilosec and some black pepper in oj and have absolutely no withdrawals. And I am an avid IV user of heroin using between 1-3grams daily depending on my wallet. Stay safe and do your research on this before trying it because I know some people have had heart issues and have died from this so take this with a grain of salt but I use 100 pills every other day for 7-14 days and then stop and have no withdrawals and can take my much needed tolerance break stay safe and always do your research before you try something someone else has had success with.

 

[nznity]

When I wanna take a long break from my DOC I take loperamide hcl 2mg but I take 100 at a time with a Prilosec and some black pepper in oj and have absolutely no withdrawals. And I am an avid IV user of heroin using between 1-3grams daily depending on my wallet. Stay safe and do your research on this before trying it because I know some people have had heart issues and have died from this so take this with a grain of salt but I use 100 pills every other day for 7-14 days and then stop and have no withdrawals and can take my much needed tolerance break stay safe and always do your research before you try something someone else has had success with.

Pregab/gabapentin works wonders for wds too, also a long acting benzo like clonazepam/Diazepam. that's the trifecta lope+Gaba+Diazepam ?

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Loperamide isn't a WD aid like gabapentin or benzos. Loperamide is an Opioid itself. Like methadone or to a lesser extent buprenorphine,

I'm glad you state some of the dangers out there as some that are messing with hERG channels is like putting a neodymium magnet on a pacemaker. Long Q-->T syndrome is what contributes to Torsades de Pointes which is an arrhythmia that makes it so you can't lift 40lbs or climb a flight of stairs.

It progresses to not being able to stand or get out of bed, not catch your breath and die without medical intervention like external pacemaking and supportive measures correcting blood gas/ mineral workups, Electrolyte corrections & other supportive measures.

With all that said, Lope continues to increase your tolerance if you're using it enough to saty comfortable and not at varying degrees of opioid WD.

 

[PharmSauce]

For these reasons I would never recommend anyone to even take 50 mg. Cardiac toxicity like Jekyl is describing can happen at various doses depending on the person and can potentially cause death.

 

[Xorkoth]

Taking 100 loperamide equates to 200mg, which is the dosage level that is proven to cause substantial heart damage. You should NEVER take that many at once. You shouldn't take loperamide for withdrawal really, as it is an opioid and prolongs withdrawal and you can get physically addicted to it, too, and the withdrawals from it last for a long time. The only way to relatively safely use it for withdrawal is to take it a few times with as much time between as you can stand, ONLY until you get past the withdrawals, and then stop. Too many people keep using it for too long and just swing between loperamide and other opiates in terms of their addiction. But unlike basically all other opiates, loperamide is actually toxic and will cause long-term damage is abused.

 

[DirtMonger]

Pregab/gabapentin works wonders for wds too, also a long acting benzo like clonazepam/Diazepam. that's the trifecta lope+Gaba+Diazepam ?

I absolutely agree with this 100% putting in some Ben is really eases the stress mentally I’m currently kicking a massive Xanax habit so that’s a no go for me when I kick but let me add in if you can manage to make yourself go for walks when it’s sunny out and walk till it starts to get dark while hydrating this helps tremendously with rebooting your natural system and helps your body get In a day night cycle and who doesn’t love watching a beautiful sunset when your feeling like death

 

[DirtMonger]

Loperamide isn't a WD aid like gabapentin or benzos. Loperamide is an Opioid itself. Like methadone or to a lesser extent buprenorphine,

I'm glad you state some of the dangers out there as some that are messing with hERG channels is like putting a neodymium magnet on a pacemaker. Long Q-->T syndrome is what contributes to Torsades de Pointes which is an arrhythmia that makes it so you can't lift 40lbs or climb a flight of stairs.

It progresses to not being able to stand or get out of bed, not catch your breath and die without medical intervention like external pacemaking and supportive measures correcting blood gas/ mineral workups, Electrolyte corrections & other supportive measures.

With all that said, Lope continues to increase your tolerance if you're using it enough to saty comfortable and not at varying degrees of opioid WD.

Absolutely correct i just didn’t know the exact science behind it thanks to moderators such as yourself we can understand this better I use it just as a crutch through the acute withdrawals as it seems to ultimately stop mine dead in its tracks like doing a acute suboxone taper I appreciate you posting the actual dangers of this for I didn’t remember where I read it thank you very much!

 

[DirtMonger]

Taking 100 loperamide equates to 200mg, which is the dosage level that is proven to cause substantial heart damage. You should NEVER take that many at once. You shouldn't take loperamide for withdrawal really, as it is an opioid and prolongs withdrawal and you can get physically addicted to it, too, and the withdrawals from it last for a long time. The only way to relatively safely use it for withdrawal is to take it a few times with as much time between as you can stand, ONLY until you get past the withdrawals, and then stop. Too many people keep using it for too long and just swing between loperamide and other opiates in terms of their addiction. But unlike basically all other opiates, loperamide is actually toxic and will cause long-term damage is abused.

Good to know this l! I abused loperamide for a year period and was taking 400 pills at a time so ultimately 800mg a day btw and thank god haven’t had any side effects that have been noticed and was just filled in that my heart is absolutely doing great. Then this thread should probably be closed and deleted for harm reduction but I will let moderators decide on that thanks for the post and information!

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow god DAMN that's a ton of lope. I'm glad you're okay too. There is a many years old thread in Trip Reports that was a loperamide trip report but turned into a long discussion about loperamide in high doses. Throughout the years a handful of actual Bluelighters or their loved ones has posted in there tell talk about a hospitalization or death that occurred as a result of loperamide abuse, and it was always heart problems.

 

[DirtMonger]

Wow god DAMN that's a ton of lope. I'm glad you're okay too. There is a many years old thread in Trip Reports that was a loperamide trip report but turned into a long discussion about loperamide in high doses. Throughout the years a handful of actual Bluelighters or their loved ones has posted in there tell talk about a hospitalization or death that occurred as a result of loperamide abuse, and it was always heart problems.

Exactly that’s why I told everyone please take this with a grain of salt and not to stupidly try something just because I have gotten away with it this could have very serious if not fatal consequences for others.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

There are two other issues of concern with high-dose loperamide use over weeks to months and that is anaemia and loperamide is apparently close enough to MPPP and alphaprodine to generate an MPTP-type metabolite called LPP, which I am sure the omeprazole and black pepper help pump into the brain.

It is an opioid, of course -- it was in US CSA Schedule II and the Betäubungsmittelgesetz and similar regulations when introduced in the early 1970s and went on a long 12-year journey to being decontrolled. On the basis of the original reports and patents, I tried a bunch of loperamide once and it actually felt like a moderate dose of piritramide but I also had bad case of the Fear so there was nothing enjoyable about it.

 

[evo4ever]

100 Loperamide pills is way too much!! I'm prescribed 120mg of Oxycodone IR daily and if I run out early I take 20 Loperamide (40mg) pills twice a day and that takes away my WD almost completely, and if I've got a benzo ill take that too which makes me feel even better. I'm also prescribed 100mg Pregabalin a day and that makes me feel better too.

The ultimate remedy for opioid WD is Loperamde + Gaba's + Benzos as someone mentioned above. When I've got all the drugs needed for opioid WD I'll take...

40mg Loperamide twice a day, 150mg Pregabalin twice a day (the more the better), and 2mg Clonazepam twice a day.

 

[Zonxx]

100 Loperamide pills is way too much!! I'm prescribed 120mg of Oxycodone IR daily and if I run out early I take 20 Loperamide (40mg) pills twice a day and that takes away my WD almost completely, and if I've got a benzo ill take that too which makes me feel even better. I'm also prescribed 100mg Pregabalin a day and that makes me feel better too.

The ultimate remedy for opioid WD is Loperamde + Gaba's + Benzos as someone mentioned above. When I've got all the drugs needed for opioid WD I'll take...

40mg Loperamide twice a day, 150mg Pregabalin twice a day (the more the better), and 2mg Clonazepam twice a day.

Pregabalin mitigates opiate wd's pretty well, speaking from experience aswell as it being pretty addicting in its own nature aswell as the tolerance to the gabaeric escalates very very quickly 250mg used to aid, now im taking upwards of 1500 on some days (a note for some readers, re-dosing pregabalin/gabapentin is not very effective, you should take your dose of it in one go)

 

[Nicomorphinist]

The harm-reduction angle on this is that if one can obtain diphenoxylate or especially difenoxin, other members of the loperamide family which are mixed with one-fortieth of the oral therapeutic dose of atropine to dissuade injection, the number of metabolites and especially toxic ones will be reduced although the two drugs are still related to the pethidines and have potential neurotoxicity for that reason. Difenoxin (Lyspafen, Motofen) actually bears a much closer resemblance to piritramide than loperamide does, and the whole subfamily has connexions to synthetics ranging from norpethidine to isomethadone to alphaprodine

 

[Xorkoth]

(a note for some readers, re-dosing pregabalin/gabapentin is not very effective, you should take your dose of it in one go)

While this may be true of pregabalin (not sure), actually gabapentin is absorbed by an animo acid transporter in the gut, and only in the range of 600mg of gabapentin per hour or something around there can be absorbed (probably varies somewhat between individuals), so actually taking your whole dose in 1 go is a huge waste as only a small portion will actually absorb. Taking 300mg every 20-30 minutes is the best way to absorb the majority of it. A lot of study has been done on this. It also increases absorption to take it with/after a fatty meal, and also to take NSAIDs with it, particularly naproxen.

 

[Zonxx]

While this may be true of pregabalin (not sure), actually gabapentin is absorbed by an animo acid transporter in the gut, and only in the range of 600mg of gabapentin per hour or something around there can be absorbed (probably varies somewhat between individuals), so actually taking your whole dose in 1 go is a huge waste as only a small portion will actually absorb. Taking 300mg every 20-30 minutes is the best way to absorb the majority of it. A lot of study has been done on this. It also increases absorption to take it with/after a fatty meal, and also to take NSAIDs with it, particularly naproxen.

Very very interesting! Does the same apply to Pregabalin? Because the pregabalin occasionally ill take more later and its still effective

Is there interaction aside from potentiation when the two are taken together ( pregabalin/gabapentin) as i actually pregabalin being my main one of the two gabaerics and i dont always mix them because i prefer the more sedating properties of pregabalin vs the more physical/disorienting/oddly stimulating of pentin

 

[Xorkoth]

I don't know of any interaction other than what you'd expect but I've never tried combining them. I know pregabalin is has a much higher BA than gabapentin, I don't know if there is an hourly limit to it or not.

I looked at the Wiki and found this:

Pregabalin is absorbed from the intestines by an active transport process mediated via the large neutral amino acid transporter 1 (LAT1, SLC7A5), a transporter for amino acids such as L-leucine and L-phenylalanine.[16][57][70] Very few (less than 10 drugs) are known to be transported by this transporter.[71] Unlike gabapentin, which is transported solely by the LAT1,[70][4] pregabalin seems to be transported not only by the LAT1 but also by other carriers.[16] The LAT1 is easily saturable, so the pharmacokinetics of gabapentin are dose-dependent, with diminished bioavailability and delayed peak levels at higher doses.[16] In contrast, this is not the case for pregabalin, which shows linear pharmacokinetics and no saturation of absorption.[16]

The oral bioavailability of pregabalin is greater than or equal to 90% across and beyond its entire clinical dose range (75 to 900 mg/day).[4] Food does not significantly influence the oral bioavailability of pregabalin.[4] Pregabalin is rapidly absorbed when administered on an empty stomach, with a Tmax (time to peak levels) of generally less than or equal to 1 hour at doses of 300 mg or less.[16][3] However, food has been found to substantially delay the absorption of pregabalin and to significantly reduce peak levels without affecting the bioavailability of the drug; Tmax values for pregabalin of 0.6 hours in a fasted state and 3.2 hours in a fed state (5-fold difference), and the Cmax is reduced by 25–31% in a fed versus fasted state.[4]

So looks like taking pregabalin without food is best, and it will all absorb regardless of how much you take at a time. Interesting, I'm glad I looked that up. It's very different from gabapentin in terms of how to dose, I guess.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

For those of you who take loperamide and its relatives simply for the skitters, note that it is cross-tolerant with other opioids, so if you take them, your GP or GI specialist should tell you how to index the dose appropriately or it may not work. I have never heard of it going above four tablets q6h and eight tablets for the first loading dose. When it goes beyond that or these drugs do not work, codeine and dihydrocodeine are the second-line treatments for Irritable Bowel Syndrome and the like, and whole opium products like granulated opium, paregoric, and laudanum are the third for the most part.

Diphenoxylate is twice as strong as an anti-diarrhoeal and difenoxin is about 4-5 times as potent, although I have heard it asserted that some morphinian effects of difenoxin are 36 times a strong as loperamide, perhaps pupil constriction or analgesia?