The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

[JGrimez]

Uhh, could you please expand on my false equivalency and misleading nonsense?

Trump mishandling classified information. If he legitimately did that, not only could they impeach him but they could charge him (unless they didn't want to appear like hypocrites since Hillary walked). So that would've been your smoking gun.

Mishandling classified information is a specific crime, it sounds like fake news spin when they accuse him of doing that.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Trump is possibly the best president our enemies have ever had.

I think any country, friend or foe, is having difficulty with him. Allies, as you list, are watching him pull out of agreements and generally run independent rather than towing the agreed upon line with problem countries and issues. Trump has changed the dynamic with 'allies' who didn't fulfill their portion of an agreement or if an agreement didn't benefit the US. I'm good with that. At the same time, any 'enemies' are now being treated differently as well - you may view it as benefiting them, I don't see it that way. I see it as not allowing them to behave in ways that distract or annoy us. How much has North Korea been a concern since they stepped up to missile launches and Trump 'talked' to them? Other than the 'collusion' investigations, how much has Russia been a real threat, or even nuisance?

Perhaps your statement is limited to the slips of information - if my taking your words to a larger context is out of line, I apologize. I won't attempt to justify or brush off such security leaks. My perception is that he is NOT benefiting our allies as much as past Presidents, and NOT benefiting our enemies either. He's seeking to benefit the US, first and foremost. Just as a lot of Americans viewed Trump as a change from the status quo, it seems he is more of a loose cannon than many anticipated - from global perspectives as well.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

False equivalency and misleading nonsense.

Trying to compare to Hillary, Obama, or anyone else is misleading nonsense. Trump should be judged on what he does or does not do - period. The comparison is not to others, but to what is right and wrong. It's that simple. People can grey value their sense of right and wrong on just about anything, but that should be the standard by which he is judged. Not by others who have done better or worse.

Trump mishandling classified information. If he legitimately did that, not only could they impeach him but they could charge him (unless they didn't want to appear like hypocrites since Hillary walked). So that would've been your smoking gun.

Mishandling classified information is a specific crime, it sounds like fake news spin when they accuse him of doing that.

Consider that the spin, and the hate from those against the politician, works both ways - witness those who defend Trump to the end but are stamping their feet about Hillary's misdeeds, and compare that to those with TDS and saying if Hillary had done wrong she would have been investigated properly and charged. It's an outrage that both sides have, and to date nothing's been charged against either. Is there merit, then in, continuing to stamp one's feet and wave one's arms? About either party? Or should we wait for a proper investigation and the findings? I just stated each person should be weighed against right or wrong, not other persons...and yet I compare Trump to Hillary. My point is not comparison of the individuals, but that they both should be held to the same standard, and neither group of supporters seems willing to consider their leader as subject to common standards.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

And as if all that weren't bad enough, you have the height of his hypocracy when you add in that he has repeatedly revoked security clearance of retired intelligence officers, not because of their endangering national secrets like trump himself does, but as political retribution because he didn't like what they said about him.

I mean I can post some sources if you like, but this is all pretty easy to find stuff.

I don't think he outright intends to do it. I think he's a narcissist who's loyal only to himself. So he just says whatever he likes not really caring about the consequences so long as he thinks it makes him look good.

Like the others, I'm largely at a loss for the tweets of classified info. Less for any sense of willful ignorance (I'm sure others would claim that) but more for the fact that I don't follow him, or hear MSM blowing up on such leaks. I'm pretty comfortable in accepting what you've said is true, and it's disconcerting he'd be making such mistakes. I'm curious, though, if he continues to do this, or if it was something that occurred early on and he has worked to limit that based on the feedback he's been given? Somewhat laughable as a thought, considering he doesn't listen to anyone it seems.

I will speak to the Security Clearances, however. It was portrayed by MSM as a childish lashing out by Trump. I have no doubt that is a (YUGE!) part of it. But also consider timing and context. It was at a time, when persons in that group of retired or unemployed (looking at Hillary) folks, many of whom were not aligned with Trump's direction and beginning to leak to media in criticizing ways WITH inside information. The reason such clearances are typically issued is you have a pool of folks who have worked in the intelligence areas and required clearance as part of their daily work. Even after retiring, or perhaps ending direct gov't employment in that area (and going to private work), they had experience and insights that could be applied to upcoming situations. Their experience was still valuable for successful planning and execution of intelligence operations. If their getting that intelligence and sabotaging the President and his direction, should they be kept with that clearance? Logically, no. But Trump's tantrums take the spotlight over logic.

 

[mal3volent]

Trump is weak. He promised the wall to his base and he can't deliver. I thought he was a political genius and a big strong man? Beto will crush him if he runs...

 

[cduggles]

Trump mishandling classified information. If he legitimately did that, not only could they impeach him but they could charge him (unless they didn't want to appear like hypocrites since Hillary walked). So that would've been your smoking gun.

Mishandling classified information is a specific crime, it sounds like fake news spin when they accuse him of doing that.

It's not a crime for Trump.

Does the president have 'the ability to declassify anything at any time'?

Is A President Sharing Classified Information Against The Law?

 

[alasdairm]

another major milestone for the trump administration: National debt tops $22 trillion for the first time as experts warn of ripple effects

The national debt surpassed $22 trillion for the first time on Tuesday, a milestone that experts warned is further proof the country is on an unsustainable financial path that could jeopardize the economic security of every American.

The Treasury Department reported the debt hit $22.012 trillion, a jump of more than $30 billion in just this month.

The national debt has been rising at a faster rate following the passage of President Donald Trump’s $1.5 trillion tax-cut package a little more than a year ago and as the result of congressional efforts to increase spending on domestic and military programs. The nation has added more than $1 trillion in debt in the last 11 months alone.

“Reaching this unfortunate milestone so rapidly is the latest sign that our fiscal situation is not only unsustainable but accelerating,” said Michael A. Peterson, chief executive officer of the Peter G. Peterson Foundation, a nonpartisan organization working to address the country’s long-term fiscal challenges.

congratulations on a big first president trump!

#makeamericagreatbrokeagain

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

reading selectively...

Warner, Burr split on committee findings on collusion

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

Alasdair - what's a Trump lie that was worse than Obama lying to the American people about Hillary Clinton mishandling classified information, endangering national security and violating the Espionage Act?

lol i'll wait...

man, it would be hard to pick one from the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of lies that he's told since taking office. and 'worse' is subjective. i'll tell you some lies i think are worse. you'll say they're not worse. so we can just skip that - i think his lies are a problem, you're fine with them - and agree to disagree.

alasdair

 

[TheLoveBandit]

reading selectively...

Warner, Burr split on committee findings on collusion

alasdair

From your link:

Sen. Mark Warner (Va.), the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, broke on Tuesday with committee Chairman Richard Burr's (R-N.C.) assessment that the panel had not found evidence of collusion based on its findings thus far.

"Respectfully, I disagree," Warner said, according to CNN. "I'm not going to get into any conclusions I've reached because my basis of this has been that I'm not going to reach any conclusion until we finish the investigation. And we still have a number of the key witnesses to come back."

Burr told CBS News last week that "based on the evidence" the committee has seen so far, there is nothing to suggest that members of President Trump's campaign and the Russian government colluded during the 2016 election.

...

Burr has periodically said he has seen no evidence of collusion between the campaign and the Russian government, however he has noted he will wait to make a final judgment until the investigation is fully completed

So, one says they have seen nothing thus far, and the other says they will wait to hear from others who have not spoken yet. These two statements can coexist. Burr just should have waited until all information is in before expressing his judgement publicly. It doesn't change the possible fact that nothing has been shown to Congress yet. And, if someone cares to argue that collusion does or does not exist...there is still info not delivered so either is possible. It is very likely that, to date, evidence has not been provided.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

another major milestone for the trump administration: National debt tops $22 trillion for the first time as experts warn of ripple effects



congratulations on a big first president trump!

#makeamericagreatbrokeagain

alasdair

This is exactly what the bipartisan committee called him on during the presidential debates. Totally sickening. Money is more important than a god damn useless wall. I can't wait for the fiscal conservatives to WAKE UP.

Hillary promised to not add to the projected debt; this was a decent first step and the whole world had their heads in the sand, watching every news story on pussygate, etc. SIGH.

Tell me again why public education is so great again? Tell me how it taught millions of people math? It didn't. Or, people intentionally run themselves/the nation into debt, and that's not something I want to believe.

 

[alasdairm]

maybe. the chairman says they have no evidence. the vice-chairman says he's not going to draw any such conclusion and they're not done yet.

grimez is obviously choosing the chairman's comments because they support his position and he likes what he hears.

i'd rather not jump to conclusions. i'll wait for the final report from the senate committee and from mueller. if they find there was no collusion , i'll accept that finding.

alasdair

 

[Captain.Heroin]

There’s a ton of crimes that happened, a lack of direct evidence doesn’t magically erase the crime.

Point in case: read HOW TO books. I imagine JG’s primary mode of information consumption is digital-based.

 

[JessFR]

There's something about all this that seems so incoherent from trump supporters.

OK, so there was no conspiracy, that's a nice change for the types that support trump, there's usually always a conspiracy, but fine, this time there was no conspiracy.

Then... Why does trump freak out about all this and lash out and try to stop it?

Oh right, because it's a witch hunt... except it's also not. It's a witch hunt only when it might charge him, when it looks like it won't, it's proof there was no collusion. Except if it just proves there was no collusion, and was therefore conducted fairly, again, why does trump try to interfere with it.

But this seems very typical for trump supporters. Reality just twists around them.

FISAgate exists (so there was a conspiracy after all, I knew it had to be hiding somewhere) because trump says so. His collusion does not, because trump says so. And all evidence and logic bends and contorts to that reality.

 

[Xorkoth]

Apathy is the problem, we've become so apathetic that none of it seems real. Everyone is only interested in short-term comfort and/or profit. And public education has turned into a numbers game just like everything because of legislation like "no child left behind". Our public education used to be #1 in the world. Public education isn't the problem, the way it's been corrupted is the problem. Put education behind a paywall, and see how much more idiotic we can become.

 

[alasdairm]

Then... Why does trump freak out about all this and lash out and try to stop it?

and why all the lies and obstruction by him and numerous members of his staff?

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

grimez is obviously choosing the chairman's comments because they support his position and he likes what he hears.

I know what's coming it's a foregone conclusion. Again, they were illegally wiretapping the entire Trump team. If there was any Russian collusion, do you think they would have let him win?

I blame the media for continuing this charade and hyping all their viewers for so long.

There?s a ton of crimes that happened, a lack of direct evidence doesn?t magically erase the crime.

Bro until you have evidence you are literally pushing conspiracy theories. They even called it Russian "collusion" instead of "conspiracy" because they've tainted that word, even though collusion is not a crime but conspiracy is. What crimes happened and how do you know? To this date Trump has not even been accused of a crime, so I'd like to hear the rap sheet that you got on him. I hope this isn't related to taxes.

Point in case: read HOW TO books. I imagine JG?s primary mode of information consumption is digital-based.

The biggest trove of international cables is wikileaks. And you can read all public available government documents online. But yea I like 2 read teh bookz 2.

OK, so there was no conspiracy, that's a nice change for the types that support trump, there's usually always a conspiracy, but fine, this time there was no conspiracy.

I posted the video detailing the conspiracy. How much do you know about the FISA scandal, have you bothered to look into it?

Why does trump freak out about all this and lash out and try to stop it?

These people were illegally spying on him.

Oh right, because it's a witch hunt... except it's also not

It was always a witch hunt fake news smear hoax. Trump never said it was legitimate.

It's a witch hunt only when it might charge him, when it looks like it won't, it's proof there was no collusion.

See above - always a witch hunt. We're waiting for it to finally wrap up. That doesn't mean there was no collusion, because we're already telling you there was no collusion, it's more like we're just waiting for this waste of time and money circus show to run its course.

Except if it just proves there was no collusion, and was therefore conducted fairly, again, why does trump try to interfere with it.

It hasn't been conducted fairly. It started with illegal surveillance and no corroborated evidence required to launch an investigation. There was no crime committed (for eg Watergate began with a crime). Trump's crime was winning the election. Then Mueller starts locking up Trump's team for BS reasons that you could get almost any politician on, nothing related to election interference or Russian collusion, but enough action to make people think that there's a fire there (but the smoke was all fake or exaggerated).

But this seems very typical for trump supporters. Reality just twists around them.

More like reality catches up to the Trump-haters.

FISAgate exists (so there was a conspiracy after all, I knew it had to be hiding somewhere) because trump says so.

No it's because Dan Bongino says so and we have a ton of evidence.

His collusion does not, because trump says so. And all evidence and logic bends and contorts to that reality.

No lol, it's about evidence. Even if you believe nothing that myself or Trump says, you need some of that sweet evidence.
And the Senate Committee is trying to let y'all down gently.

 

[JGrimez]

and why all the lies and obstruction by him and numerous members of his staff?

alasdair

It's actually quite easy to use detective games to get someone on a charge of lying. That can simply be 2 conflicting statements. And since the accusations are of high treason and conspiracy with a foreign enemy, charging someone with lying to the FBI is a fucking joke. There are so many people who did the exact same thing (and actually covered up crimes in the process) and nothing happened to them. Anyone being honest will admit this stuff is political, but hey fuck Trump.

 

[JGrimez]

man, it would be hard to pick one from the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of lies that he's told since taking office. and 'worse' is subjective. i'll tell you some lies i think are worse. you'll say they're not worse. so we can just skip that - i think his lies are a problem, you're fine with them - and agree to disagree.

alasdair

So is a lie just a lie to you? 1 lie = 1 lie?
If Trump "lies" by getting a poll% or budget number wrong, is that just as bad as lying about covering up a political murder?
I'd like to hear one that's worse than Obama's, please.

 

[Xorkoth]

He's saying it's not about value comparisons, it's about judging Trump for his lies independent on how bad someone else's lies were. If I were to say "yes grimey, Hillary's lies were worse than Trump's"... would you then stop using Hillary/Obama to address the question: are Trump's lies acceptable? Does it concern you that the president lies all the time, even when they're small lies?