Kaleida
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2015
- Messages
- 2,806
Interesting responses about DOC and true hallucinations, I've actually been wondering how others feel about this for a while now too.
First I will say, for me LSD does readily cause genuine hallucinations as long as the dose is high enough, even if it doesn't cause any sort of significant ego loss experience, but they are still not quite like the true hallucinations one would get on something like a deliriant, where I hear that term thrown around more commonly. On LSD if I ever don't realize that something is a hallucination, it's only because it's so detailed that I don't want to make any immediate judgments and end up doing something stupid or regrettable; this is completely different than on deliriants where I immediately accept almost any truly detailed hallucination as completely real and start interacting with it, but the second I realize that something is off it tends to vanish instantly, as if it actually was the false belief in its existence that kept it around. So, LSD has almost never done that exact sort of thing for me, but yes, I have had full-blown hallucinations on LSD, such as people around me, like sitting on the couches in the room or walking around in the forest with me, or animals and insects constantly crawling around in the grass or making loud calls or howls in the night, or tree branches hanging in the path that I constantly dodge as I see them at the last second and then realize they were never there to begin with. So that's my experience with that.
By comparison, I would actually say that for me DOC feels much more likely to cause these sorts of full-blown hallucinations for me at the same level of psychedelic psychological or euphoric effects than LSD, though at the same time also feels much more limited in its ability to push to the sorts of doses that would be required for the fully satisfying version of these effects, specifically due to the discomfort and possible safety risk that accompanies the physical side effects. I've only taken it at 2.5 mg so far, and that already had me feeling like crap, but it was already definitely pushing upon this level for me; at the peak I could close my eyes and see streams of people transforming from one to the next or flashing by in front of me and bird's-eye views of other worlds beginning to form in the distance, and a bit later during the plateau I was just sitting in my living room and watching crowds of transparent people and small animals like dogs just rushing around the room and especially in my peripheral vision leaving long neon tracers behind them, and I actually found this effect in particular to be much more deliriant-like than LSD has ever been for me.
That's just my personal experience, but I will also say that I've heard from others who used particularly large doses of DOC, and actually other DOx chemicals as well, that their hallucinations also could get this intense or more so, and I know there are at least one or two DOC reports on Erowid where the tripper literally goes delirious and starts behaving like they ate a bunch of datura seeds or something. So, ultimately I question whether many will find pushing DOC to such a point worth it when all factors are considered together, but nonetheless will say that I do feel fairly confident that many would genuinely be able to reach that level of extreme hallucination from it if they really wanted to.
First I will say, for me LSD does readily cause genuine hallucinations as long as the dose is high enough, even if it doesn't cause any sort of significant ego loss experience, but they are still not quite like the true hallucinations one would get on something like a deliriant, where I hear that term thrown around more commonly. On LSD if I ever don't realize that something is a hallucination, it's only because it's so detailed that I don't want to make any immediate judgments and end up doing something stupid or regrettable; this is completely different than on deliriants where I immediately accept almost any truly detailed hallucination as completely real and start interacting with it, but the second I realize that something is off it tends to vanish instantly, as if it actually was the false belief in its existence that kept it around. So, LSD has almost never done that exact sort of thing for me, but yes, I have had full-blown hallucinations on LSD, such as people around me, like sitting on the couches in the room or walking around in the forest with me, or animals and insects constantly crawling around in the grass or making loud calls or howls in the night, or tree branches hanging in the path that I constantly dodge as I see them at the last second and then realize they were never there to begin with. So that's my experience with that.
By comparison, I would actually say that for me DOC feels much more likely to cause these sorts of full-blown hallucinations for me at the same level of psychedelic psychological or euphoric effects than LSD, though at the same time also feels much more limited in its ability to push to the sorts of doses that would be required for the fully satisfying version of these effects, specifically due to the discomfort and possible safety risk that accompanies the physical side effects. I've only taken it at 2.5 mg so far, and that already had me feeling like crap, but it was already definitely pushing upon this level for me; at the peak I could close my eyes and see streams of people transforming from one to the next or flashing by in front of me and bird's-eye views of other worlds beginning to form in the distance, and a bit later during the plateau I was just sitting in my living room and watching crowds of transparent people and small animals like dogs just rushing around the room and especially in my peripheral vision leaving long neon tracers behind them, and I actually found this effect in particular to be much more deliriant-like than LSD has ever been for me.
That's just my personal experience, but I will also say that I've heard from others who used particularly large doses of DOC, and actually other DOx chemicals as well, that their hallucinations also could get this intense or more so, and I know there are at least one or two DOC reports on Erowid where the tripper literally goes delirious and starts behaving like they ate a bunch of datura seeds or something. So, ultimately I question whether many will find pushing DOC to such a point worth it when all factors are considered together, but nonetheless will say that I do feel fairly confident that many would genuinely be able to reach that level of extreme hallucination from it if they really wanted to.
Especially the black dots correlating with heat patterns and such, I don't think I've ever seen that one myself.... Sounds like it'd be really cool to witness though. The rest all sounds very familiar to me, and would say that I feel it's quite likely that we're indeed describing the same sort of hallucination in general, at least at some point downstream even if the initiating mechanism is not the same and therefore the resulting expression is a little different. But yeah, that sort of natural scenery along with animals and other people are pretty much my most common types of complex hallucinations on psychedelics, it's part of why I love them so much. 
Hmm, that definitely reignites some of my interest in ibogaine as well....
