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Why is it that Christians are so quick to judge Athiest/Agnostic individuals?

God gave us free will but then punishes us for using it. He created the game, made us play it, doesn't tell us the rules and burns us for eternity for breaking them. That's either an evil god or a totally incongruous fiction created by ignorant bullies.

I don't believe we have free will anyway. We have something approximating it but most decisions are made without our input. That's another illusion created by religions who are trying make us into wilful and nasty beasts to shame and control when we are simply animals shaped brutally by a harsh natural environment. We are fitting byproducts of a dog-eat-living- -baby-dog world.
 
treezy z said:
It means believing in Jesus and repenting. I'm repenting ok but need to improve.
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So if a serial child rapist closes his eyes and repents to God on his death bed, that's all it takes to get into Heaven? He doesn't have to repent to the families he destroyed or anything? Just Jesus or god or whatever?
 
mal3volent said:
So if a serial child rapist closes his eyes and repents to God on his death bed, that's all it takes to get into Heaven? He doesn't have to repent to the families he destroyed or anything? Just Jesus or god or whatever?
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No repenting means actually doing the right thing. You're thinking Catholic confession, say 10 prayers your good not all Church do that
 
treezy z said:
No repenting means actually doing the right thing. You're thinking Catholic confession, say 10 prayers your good not all Church do that
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It doesn't matter what each individual church says. It's what the book says. The book says that whosoever believeth in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

It's not about being a good person. Its about, "who among you will bend your knee and worship me?" It's a cult, basically.
 
I'd agree with that interpretation. I mean obviously you're specifically paraphrasing John 3:16. But yes I'd generally agree with the interpretation that Christianity requires that you have faith. No more, no less.

That said, simply repenting on your death bed just to get into heaven on a technicality, I wouldn't really call that enough. You have to be sincere about it.

So yes, in the Christian sense, it would be my interpretation that a rapist or murderer or whatever can go to heaven provided they have faith. But it has to actually be genuine faith. And you'd think most such people who truly had faith and weren't just trying to game the system wouldn't be going around raping and murdering people to start with given its quite opposed to the kind of shit Jesus seemed to expect from people.

But my read on it is I would say that what you actually say aloud doesn't mean anything. You can repent to a priest all you want. Or you can do nothing at all. Whatever the truth is about your faith or lack thereof, you'd think God's gonna know regardless.

The Catholics are weird. They're crazy big in rituals and shit. To be honest I've long had trouble reconciling catholic behavior with what the Bible actually says.
 
I personally don't care if it's genuine repentance or not. There are some things you shouldn't be forgiven of. Christianity values your submission to God over how you choose to lead your life and how you treat others.
 
You could always be a Calvinist, they believe absolutely everything is predetermined, including who goes to hell and whatnot, and that what you do has absolutely no effect on the outcome.
 
bptubbs said:
You could always be a Calvinist, they believe absolutely everything is predetermined, including who goes to hell and whatnot, and that what you do has absolutely no effect on the outcome.
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Fun fact, the Westboro Baptist church follows that line of thinking. They even have the 5 points of calvinism written in their church hall. And that only a very very tiny few. The elect. 144,000 total. Will go to heaven.

Everyone else goes to hell. Likely including many of themselves. And absolutely nothing you do or don't do can change that.

Cosmic Trigger said:
Yeah babies who die right at birth burn in hell forever. Ordained by an all loving god.

They must be a fun bunch to be born into.
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You're not gonna find many Christians who think baby's go to hell. And I wouldn't say it's particularly supported by the Bible either.

Unless perhaps you're like the Westboro Baptist church in which case, presumably unless less than 144,000 children have ever died ever. Then some of them must be in hell. And alternatively, the other way you could view it is that ONLY children go to heaven. Hence why it's so sparsely populated.

Or you could just not take revelations so literally.
 
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bptubbs said:
It's amazing really, because they still pretend to try and be good people and devout. If it's pre-determined why bother?
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They truly, honestly believe they're doing the right thing. Well, the most hard core of them do. More and more of their youngest generation have taken issue with the beliefs. Especially the fact that generally Shirley Phelps, tends to shout down any differing interpretations.

But the official thinking, as in what the church leadership says and tries to ensure the adherents believe, is that while yes, it's predetermined. It could be you are doing all the right things as much because you're one of the predetermined. So, you might not be, but you still do everything right that you can in the belief that maybe you're one of the few doing it because you're one of the few elect.

Which is why they take it as a good thing that they're so hated. They believe that those who spread the truth will be hated, and that only a rare rare few will go to heaven. So in being extreme and ostracized, they see that as a symbol that perhaps they are the chosen few.

But even amongst themselves there is doubt. Even they tend to think there's every chance they'll go to hell anyway.
 
Indeed.

I've long had an interest in cults. And the Westboro Baptist church specially. I've watched just about every documentary made about them, and read every book ever written that I know of by former members.

So I might understand what they believe a lot better than most. In truth, I feel sorry for a lot of them. I'd say most of them are genuinely good people who've been brainwashed as a result of being born into the family.

The primary exceptions being Shirley Phelps, essentially their current leader. And probably their most horrible member whom I feel almost no sympathy for, Steve drain. Who runs their communications and media, and is also the one who makes the infamous signs, and is one of the only members not born into the church. Those two are true believers. Well, they're the most extreme believers. Steve Drain is probably most in it for the power he feels it gives him. Between them they are responsible for the most damage done by the group. Most of the rest are followers. Primarily motivated because they truly fear that they'll go to hell if they don't stay and the more tangible fear that if they leave, they'll be disowned and without anyone in the world. While the rest of the world will hate them for having been ever apart of it. So they'll lose their family and they fear the rest of the world will shun them.

But increasingly as more of the younger members have defected and shown that it's possible, more members have done so. Seeing that they were able to do it and that they will have family if they leave.

The church will die of attrition. Their beliefs means unlike a normal cult, they are highly hesitant to take on any new members. Justifying it biblically with Timothy 5:22, lay your hands on no man suddenly. And with more defections than new members. It's only a matter of time till only the core members are left. It's already pretty close.
 
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I am a former Pentecostal who worked for the Assemblies of God for 10 years and attended the Pentecostal Holiness Church. I am open to questions. I believe I can answer anything you need to know including doctrinal differences between sects within Pentecostalism and Faith movements.
 
Theologically, Calvinists, if they are true students of their doctrine and not mere sponges, adhere to the 8th Chapter of Romans vs. 28-ff. In context, Paul is just stating that Gentiles were predestined to be able to be a part of God's salvation through Christ (Rom.10:11). Yes, God planned to include everyone (Rm.11:11-24) but it not saying it is a license to do just anything. Paul specifies this clearly in (Rom. 6:1-3). Anyway, I am not preaching to anyone, I am simply relating the knowledge I have.
 
I had a very good friend who was a Pentecostal, well two, but one actually followed it, the other rebelled as soon as he came of age. That's actually why I became interested in it.
 
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