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Kratom The Kratom Megathread

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Yes, they are both equally important factors. Reflect, why you are taking Kratom in the first place. Does Kratom provide a solution for your use case ? Yes ? No ? If yes, is the dose maintainable ? No ? Why not stop for a while and see how it goes ? Kratom is not a overly obvious intoxicator, which screws up your plans when you stop taking it. It is subtle enough to fuck your life slowly and lure you into a mental space, where you think, that you are dependent, but you are actually NOT. You just think you are. The withdrawals are mostly mental.

If you take Kratom functionally to better perform in a certain task, that's your choice. But imho Kratom is a mental depressant. It inhibits mental growth. It is a sweet, subtle lie. There are moments in life, when you need that lie. But most of the time it is just counterproductive.

Wow, although I somewhat actually agree with you in some ways, I hadn't really expected a somewhat "anti-Kratom" post at the moment haha, not that I think you are preaching or anything cause I don't really think you are, just stating some psychological facts.

Well for me, I never would think personally it would be good for me to use it non-stop without taking LONG breaks here and there of a few months.

I got to using it way too much, even though I never used it more than 4 days a week (only once did it I use it 5 days in a week and never did 6) and took a little more than 10 months off but had actually planned on entirely quitting, if not forever, at least for years.

While I use it for fun I do also use it for anxiety and depression I guess (also working out) but without really CONSCIOUSLY self-medicating, but being aware that I am.

At the ridiculous doses I was taking my WD only lasted 6 days but did make me pretty non-functional for 4 of them but then I was fine but I'm still not ever going to let myself get into that spot again.

I guess I at least PARTIALLY agree with you if what you are saying is that using it as a performance enhancer is counter productive because you come to rely on it, or if you think you are using it to solve some sort of problem, because by and large pretty much no substance (unless it's medicine) ever really "solves" any problem.

But in that way I don't really think it's different than any other of the substances which can either be crutches or performance enhancers in any way.

I guess in some ways it's similar mentally to something like Adderall that isn't SUPER addictive or destructive and which is often performance enhancing and can be taken frequently while you go about your day, where you will kind of subtly grow mentally dependent on it and sort of "weaken your will" by not forcing yourself through the discomforts of life that you'd have without it since it sort of makes everything seem "easier" in a way.

Then again, any drug used too often for ANY reason can become a way of avoiding life.

Some people might say that one is better off if they use drugs to be productive while on them (which is generally a good idea) while others might say the opposite that really it's better not to lie to yourself and acknowledge you are generally wasting time when you use your drug of choice and just doing it to enjoy yourself.

I think there's a little truth in both ideas but if you CAN use a drug to be productive (which IMO Kratom is good for) then it's probably better to be able to later see progress you made on a task you did on Kratom when you are actually sober, then think you just totally wasted your time....if having fun is actually wasting your time that is hahaha.

Yeah, as some smart people tend to say "all growth is meant to be painful" and "if things are too easy then they are probably not very productive".

But as long as you are honest with yourself about that stuff I think moderation is ok.

While I'm enjoying myself a bit now, and only started using it again for the first time in 10 months about 3 weeks ago, I'm almost positive it won't be more than a few months give or take before I stop for another few months as I just find constant use to eventually start to become counterproductive like you said, and take time off before I go back to it...assuming it's still legal that is...

I started taking Kratom regularly against chronic pain (after a serious fracture), later also as a stim substitute. After I stopped taking it I feel actually less pain in the affected area than while on it. Go figure.

This does not mean, you shot stop NOW. Just reflect your use and beware, that you should not be scared of the WD at all. It is mere fearmongering.

I'm not fear mongering.

I just had like 6 uncomfortable days from using too much back 10 months ago so I am being smarter this time around and I'm trying to gauge if my WDs will be less if I'm using fewer grams per day (which is OBVIOUSLY the case) and was just wondering which of the 2 people felt is the bigger factor.

Obviously Kratom WD is never really THAT bad, but it can suck for a few days.
 
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@Myophile

I agree wholeheartedly with your last posts. Good points you made. I have to add a short notice : IMHO better abuse Kratom than Adderall (or much much worse Opiates). Anyway, the "ultimate" aim should be to pursue a sustainable life without any mental/physical adulterations (as long as you are not handicapped, the level of handicap you estimate yourself, that is a privilege of our civilization). If I think about my past, the only reason I experimented was the complexion of the society.

I am aware of the circumstance, that stopping sometimes and taking regularly otherwise should not be an issue, as it leads to mental addiction. Now, that I am grown up, I think, that only sobriety is real, even in pain. Trust me, I know, what (physical) pain is. Emotionally many people suffered more than myself, but I got a glimpse. Kratom is a short-term solution. As soon as you take it, you should know, how to get rid of it as quickly as possible (the boundaries of "possibility" is defined by you).
 
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@Myophile

I agree wholeheartedly with your last posts. Good points you made. I have to add a short notice : IMHO better abuse Kratom than Adderall (or much much worse Opiates). Anyway, the "ultimate" aim should be to pursue a sustainable life without any mental/physical adulterations (as long as you are not handicapped, the level of handicap you estimate yourself, that is a privilege of our civilization). If I think about my past, the only reason I experimented was the complexion of the society.

I am aware of the circumstance, that stopping sometimes and taking regularly otherwise should not be an issue, as it leads to mental addiction. Now, that I am grown up, I think, that only sobriety is real, even in pain. Trust me, I know, what (physical) pain is. Emotionally many people suffered more than myself, but I got a glimpse. Kratom is a short-term solution. As soon as you take it, you should know, how to get rid of it as quickly as possible (the boundaries of "possibility" is defined by you).


I wasn't sure what you meant by this part?

Yeah well I agree it's obviously better not to NEED any drug. The more control a person has the better IMO, but there's nothing wrong with enjoying oneself with substances occasionally if it doesn't totally come at the expense of doing more important things.

Herbs like weed and Kratom are more like that than the dangerous ones because the harm is more in wasted time than actually physically hurting yourself.
 
The thing is : You should not bother, how much you need a drug. Your body is king. You don't need anything. You need someone (a partner, sexually or not), yes. That is human nature. But you only need nutrition to survive. You do not need drugs. Drugs should be used as a sacrament, rather than as an artificial daily aid to achieve tasks (I know, it is far fetched considering our society). Kratom is a sacrament and ought to be used sparsely (should be administered in case of Opiate addictions by a shaman or equivalent, not taken every day to fix minor/miniscule issues).

Today there are no shamans. Everyone has to be shaman. But the education to achieve that is missing. Anyway, the best advice I can give you, even if it may seem abstract : Try to be a shaman.
 
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The thing is : You should not bother, how much you need a drug. Your body is king. You don't need anything. You need someone (a partner, sexually or not), yes. That is human nature. But you only need nutrition to survive. You do not need drugs. Drugs should be used as a sacrament, rather than as an artificial daily aid to achieve tasks (I know, it is far fetched considering our society). Kratom is a sacrament and ought to be used sparsely (should be administered in case of Opiate addictions by a shaman or equivalent, not taken every day to fix minor/miniscule issues).

Today there are no shamans. Everyone has to be shaman. But the education to achieve that is missing. Anyway, the best advice I can give you, even if it may seem abstract : Try to be a shaman.

Yeah I know what you are getting at.

Shamanism, both relating and not relating to substances (as obviously not all shamanism does) is really interesting.

I totally think lots of substances, especially psychedelics like Peyote/Mescaline, DMT, Ibogaine, Ayahuasca, Shrooms, etc can bring about life changing results if used properly.

I wish I could say I ever had some great revelation on a drug but I never did...just fun lol.

Obviously no one (unless you are sick) NEEDS drugs.

I still think it's fine to use whatever you want if that's what you want to do (I obviously do sometimes lol) and think all drugs should be legalized, but I bet 95% of drug users never get anything really great out of them.

It would be cool if instead of DARE we had REAL drug education: teaching people how to use substances to enhance life, but the only peoples that really did that kind of thing were Natives and indigenous peoples for the most part, or people like Aldous Huxley or different artists who used them to do great things.
 
Just bought some Malaysian kratom. I have some questions!

I've never taken it before so I have a few questions! (I'm new here so apologies if I didn't format this post correctly!)


  • What does the high feel like?
  • What is the best way to consume it? (It's shredded, so I'm thinking maybe a tea)
  • How much should I take?
  • What is the Malaysian strain like compared to others?

    Thanks!
 
Have you taken opiates before? If so what have your doses been?

For now i?m just gonna assume that you have little to no tolerance, in which case start with 2 grams. If your situation allows it get your liver function checked by a doctor shortly after you start taking kratom, it is known in rare cases to cause damage to the liver.

If you have shredded leaf the best way to take it would be making tea. Simply bring some water to a slow boil, add a bit of citric acid (lemon/lime juice is easiest), add your kratom, and let it slow boil for about 15-20 minutes. Finally filter through a coffee filter.

The tea will taste very bitter and if you allow it to cool some of the alkaloids will start precipitating out of the water and form a fine, extremely bitter powder at the bottom. It?s best to wait until the tea has cooled just enough to be drinkable and then drink it as fast as possible to avoid getting the bitter powder at the bottom.

The high is similar to conventional opioids but is slightly more numbing and stimulating with somewhat reduced opiate fuzziness.
 
I would suggest throwing it in a coffee grinder or something to turn it into powder and then mix it with OJ or something similar as you will lose a lot of potency when making tea. Green Malay is a pretty popular strain for it’s light, uplifting, and mild qualities. Oddly enough, no kratom is actually harvested from Malaysia anymore so all “Malaysia’ kratom is supposed to be clones taken from Malaysia and grown in similar conditions.
 
I've never taken it before so I have a few questions! (I'm new here so apologies if I didn't format this post correctly!)


  • What does the high feel like?
  • What is the best way to consume it? (It's shredded, so I'm thinking maybe a tea)
  • How much should I take?
  • What is the Malaysian strain like compared to others?

    Thanks!

Merged with the kratom megathread
 
Please stop exaggerating. Those doses could be fatal taken at once. Either your Kratom has been laced with o-desmethyltramadol or you are talking utter bs.

Epilogue : I read your other posts about struggling. Opiates seem to have you in their bonds at the moment. Why not go back to Kratom ? Switch to Kratom, taper down slowly (you choose the velocity) and in the end be free.
I wish! Turned out though that the stomach pain I get painkillers for in the first place werre only made worse by kratom. Though I could try tea. Swallowing only gives me more pain, though. Do you have a good tip to get the best without getting the powder in my stomach? Won't my fent usage have killed my kratom friend?

And I'm with you those doses sound like bullcrap. I guess my body just doesn't absorb opis that well. My doses are definitely Dont try at home.
 
Woow, did a lot of esoteric posts last friday. The low dose 3-meo-PCE kicked in harder than I expected. 8( =D

I wish! Turned out though that the stomach pain I get painkillers for in the first place werre only made worse by kratom. Though I could try tea. Swallowing only gives me more pain, though. Do you have a good tip to get the best without getting the powder in my stomach? Won't my fent usage have killed my kratom friend?

[...]

I'd expect you would not feel much of the opioid effects, but if you have a good tapering plan (I would recommend a quick taper from high to low doses of Kratom and then plateau for a while on a low dose for a few weeks/months then taper further to miniscule doses, then drop it) it would certainly help to manage to get off of it. Regarding the stomach problems : Yes, Kratom even in low doses fucked with my stomach. I never managed to get rid completely of that side effect. Artichoke extract capsules and milk thistle (aid to stabilize bile production) helped with acute stomach discomfort, though.
 
Woow, did a lot of esoteric posts last friday. The low dose 3-meo-PCE kicked in harder than I expected. 8( =D



I'd expect you would not feel much of the opioid effects, but if you have a good tapering plan (I would recommend a quick taper from high to low doses of Kratom and then plateau for a while on a low dose for a few weeks/months then taper further to miniscule doses, then drop it) it would certainly help to manage to get off of it. Regarding the stomach problems : Yes, Kratom even in low doses fucked with my stomach. I never managed to get rid completely of that side effect. Artichoke extract capsules and milk thistle (aid to stabilize bile production) helped with acute stomach discomfort, though.

LOL.

I was like "this guy is really getting deep into a discussion of shamanism and proper use of Kratom and why people shouldn't abuse drugs" haha.

Of course, I mean, I agree with pretty much everything you were saying, I just couldn't tell if that was your typical style of posting or not.

Something seemed "different" in the tone but I couldn't read it as whether or not it was different from your usual posting style haha.


I still am just not quite getting Kratom to have the really strong effects I want.

It works and gives me a mild high, but not the super strong effect it used to, and I just can't tell if it's dose or vendor or what.

The new vendor I'm using seems to work better than the last, but now I can't place my next order for some reason...random but it's pissing me off.

I guess I just have no alternative but to keep trying different strains and doses from different vendors to try to get the effect I want, but I never had to work so hard in the past, and the strangest thing is my tolerance has in fact GONE DOWN.

So I'm actually getting effect from lower doses than before my 10 month break (as would be expected) but not nearly as strong, and if I try to go up closer to my old dose (which I don't want to) I just get side effects and the high totally goes away.

It's like the break has really changed how my brain and body react to Kratom and I wonder if this has happened to a lot of other people.
 
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I got stuck at my parents at a recent blizzard and left my kratom on the table while I passed out on the couch, my dad tossed it.

I'm sitting there "yeah, I did need to get the fuck outta here 12 years ago."

Nothing but love for my old man though, he's the best.
 
Would be kind of true, wouldn't it ?

I'm now 10 days off of the stuff (5 days no lope either). Not much changed. Still not have much drive to start creative projects but it was the same on Kratom. I guess it is just the season and my age and the fact that I need a location change (which will happen soon). I don't feel depressed at all, just bored.

I thought the wd/paws would decrease my ability to work out but it is not the case at all. I just lost some of the drive to start the work out in the first place. Have to reestablish a strict routine, which was ruined by working too much and having no time.
 
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Man, sometimes I hear certain people say things about Kratom that REALLY surprise me.

I was just on one of Reddit's Kratom forum and some guy said that when quitting Kratom he got 64 days of debilitating WD, emptiness, despair, depression, fatigue etc and that it was longer and in some ways worse than his WD from Heroin, Fentanyl, Dilaudid, Oxy, etc.

He was clear that at no point was at as severe as the worst WD from those opiates when at their worst, but that in his opinion his Kratom WD was overall worse because it lasted so much longer.

How does Kratom WD last that long for anyone and have you guys ever even heard of someone saying Kratom WD could last SIXTY FOUR days for them or be worse than Heroin or Fent??!!

At my worst I had 6 days of WD because I had been taking way too much.

Its stories like that that almost scared me away from ever trying it but I have to feel like people with that reaction are FAR from the norm.
 
All depends on . . . expectations.

That right there might be behind half of addictions in the first place, and probably most of every withdrawal. It should replace each of the twelve steps, and another twelve traditions.

Except for Kratom. Doesn't it have multiple cultivars, exporters, importers, governments, regulatory bodies, tax agencies, random warlords, and corrupt head shop owners, to treat withdrawal from dozens of different drugs each with a huge range of kinetics and heavily influenced by culture and expectations?

I'm sure it works for a lot of people but it'll be a couple decades before they get it all sorted and standardized.
 
But how can Kratom cause 64 days of withdrawal and if it can, why haven't I heard of lots of people saying that?

That's a long time to be in WD from something as relatively weak as Kratom, and it's hard for me to buy that anyone could have Kratom WD that lasts longer than Heroin or Fent WD or be something they'd consider worse.

I guess it just made me like "shit, I know I only ever had 6 days of WD but maybe I better watch out and make sure that doesn't happen...", except I still just think you'd probably have to have an EXTREMELY high and frequent dosing regimen to actually get to the point where your Kratom WD lasts 64 days.
 
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