Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[Mycophile]

I've been having this weird problem with my Kratom high pooping out on me I was wondering if you guys could help me figure out a solution to (and what the cause is):

Today I took a 9.5 gram dose and normally I think it takes about 45 minutes to kick in right.....so this happens FREQUENTLY....where I take my dose and lets say about 20 minutes after I take it I start to feel really nice and think I took the right amount...and I may feel good like that for another 10-15 minutes, but then once it gets close to around the 45 minute mark MY HIGH GOES AWAY OR AT LEAST GREATLY DIMINISHES FROM WHAT IT WAS!!!!

This happens so often that there must be some explanation but I don't know what it is or what to do about it. So as you can imagine, this often leads to me being stupid and thinking I need to take more...and SOMETIMES this works and the high comes back but sometimes it doesn't and it leaves the question as to whether or not I took too much or too little in the first place.

What I started to think, and which I think still MIGHT be the case is the following: that my dose was actually too LARGE in the first place, and that that is why it feels good before it takes full effect because that's the right amount, but then once it fully kicks in the high goes away because it's too much. Could that be what's happening??

It would seem that today it MIGHT be the case because then when I took another 1.5 grams the high didn't really come back. Just a TINY bit of it seemed to return, but mostly it didn't, and this is REALLY frustrating! It's so annoying to be pleasantly high and then have it just disappear. So is this a classic case of "less is more" and is the answer that I needed to dose less in the first place?

Maybe I should add that I ate after taking my Kratom, but that's what I always do as I get side effects if I take it on an empty stomach like some like to do, so I first take it on an empty stomach and then I eat a small meal, but in this case the high didn't disappear for probably a good 15 minutes AFTER I'd finished my meal and it was still going strong after I finished the meal. I mean could it be that as the food more fully digested that killed the high?

Except I don't think that's it because I always do the same thing and eat the same breakfast and when I get the dose right it does not kill the high.

So let me know what you guys think. Thanks

 

[truenamebrand]

In regards to the guy who was having pain after taking kratom... There are no pain receptors in the liver, so any pain experienced cannot be related to the liver. I had hepatitis C (treated successfully with interferon) and my liver enzymes were out of control, on top of having grade 2 inflammation and stage 2 damage, and I never experienced any pain whatsoever. Hepatitis C is called the silent killer for a reason — once you’re experiencing pain, it’s already too late.

As far as kratom not causing anxiety... It absolutely can and does if you overdo it. Terrible anxiety, in fact.

 

[vacuole]

As far as kratom not causing anxiety... It absolutely can and does if you overdo it. Terrible anxiety, in fact.

Seconded. The anxiety symptoms tend to appear with more frequent (read: every day) use.

 

[Mycophile]

I'm still wondering if anyone knows how to deal with the problem in my last post above.

It's getting really annoying.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I've been having this weird problem with my Kratom high pooping out on me I was wondering if you guys could help me figure out a solution to (and what the cause is):

Today I took a 9.5 gram dose and normally I think it takes about 45 minutes to kick in right.....so this happens FREQUENTLY....where I take my dose and lets say about 20 minutes after I take it I start to feel really nice and think I took the right amount...and I may feel good like that for another 10-15 minutes, but then once it gets close to around the 45 minute mark MY HIGH GOES AWAY OR AT LEAST GREATLY DIMINISHES FROM WHAT IT WAS!!!!

This happens so often that there must be some explanation but I don't know what it is or what to do about it. So as you can imagine, this often leads to me being stupid and thinking I need to take more...and SOMETIMES this works and the high comes back but sometimes it doesn't and it leaves the question as to whether or not I took too much or too little in the first place.

What I started to think, and which I think still MIGHT be the case is the following: that my dose was actually too LARGE in the first place, and that that is why it feels good before it takes full effect because that's the right amount, but then once it fully kicks in the high goes away because it's too much. Could that be what's happening??

It would seem that today it MIGHT be the case because then when I took another 1.5 grams the high didn't really come back. Just a TINY bit of it seemed to return, but mostly it didn't, and this is REALLY frustrating! It's so annoying to be pleasantly high and then have it just disappear. So is this a classic case of "less is more" and is the answer that I needed to dose less in the first place?

Maybe I should add that I ate after taking my Kratom, but that's what I always do as I get side effects if I take it on an empty stomach like some like to do, so I first take it on an empty stomach and then I eat a small meal, but in this case the high didn't disappear for probably a good 15 minutes AFTER I'd finished my meal and it was still going strong after I finished the meal. I mean could it be that as the food more fully digested that killed the high?

Except I don't think that's it because I always do the same thing and eat the same breakfast and when I get the dose right it does not kill the high.

So let me know what you guys think. Thanks

You might not like my reply, but I think this mostly psychological. It's extremely common for people to feel high in anticipation of getting high before the drugs even kick in. Hopefully that made sense. Anyways, you're saying that the high is coming and going 20-45 minutes after dosing. That's well before your kratom dose will reach peak blood concentrations.

You've taken kratom enough times that you expect it to make you feel a certain way. So much so, that you actually do feel that way after dosing, but that effect wears off, and when the drug is actually absorbed (about an hour or so after dosing), the effects are not there for you, because what you were feeling was sort of like a placebo effect.

Basically, your high disappears because you were never really high in the first place. Pavlovian responses are truly amazing, and if you're skeptical, I suggest you do some reading to learn more about it. Pretty cool stuff.

As for why you're not getting high from the kratom, I can't really say. I know you've been having similar issues for quite some time

 

[Mycophile]

You might not like my reply, but I think this mostly psychological. It's extremely common for people to feel high in anticipation of getting high before the drugs even kick in. Hopefully that made sense. Anyways, you're saying that the high is coming and going 20-45 minutes after dosing. That's well before your kratom dose will reach peak blood concentrations.

You've taken kratom enough times that you expect it to make you feel a certain way. So much so, that you actually do feel that way after dosing, but that effect wears off, and when the drug is actually absorbed (about an hour or so after dosing), the effects are not there for you, because what you were feeling was sort of like a placebo effect.

Basically, your high disappears because you were never really high in the first place. Pavlovian responses are truly amazing, and if you're skeptical, I suggest you do some reading to learn more about it. Pretty cool stuff.

As for why you're not getting high from the kratom, I can't really say. I know you've been having similar issues for quite some time

I'm not sure if what you are saying is what's occurring but it's interesting, and would also really suck if it was true LOL.

I have been having this issue but I have also had days I was getting high from the Kratom.

Now I'm even more upset because it's making me question even more whether or not the good effects I've gotten certain days off the Kratom were placebo because some of those I've been mixing in Fluro-Phenibut which has been working for me so now I think that's messing with me even more as to what I'm feeling.

But there still have been certain days I haven't taken F-Phenibut and only Kratom and gotten a decent effect...it's just really hard to get the effect I want.

I don't know what to do about this.

I don't want to have to work so hard to get high.

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

 

[Mycophile]

Slow Mobius: So now if a few days ago I actually felt high all day then could THAT have been placebo too??

I mean can someone really trick themselves that they are high for hours?

Sorry to bug you, but this is really annoying me.

Is it possible that by having used too much 10 months ago that even after waiting all this time to use it again I could have somehow permanently messed up those opioid receptors or permanently destroyed my tolerance or something?

I mean if it was Vicodin or Oxy it would work I'm sure...

 

[FluidSynchronocity]

Try drinking more water when you take it, and be very hydrated before you take it


Also, switching strains helps

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

You were using high doses before stopping if I remember correctly.

With all the time off your tolerance would have dropped. But as soon as you started taking it again your tolerance would likely sky rocket back to what it used to be probably within a couple days. At least that it how it has worked for me with any drugs I've used. Tolerance is "relearned" much much quicker then the rate at which it's developed the first time.

 

[Mycophile]

You were using high doses before stopping if I remember correctly.

With all the time off your tolerance would have dropped. But as soon as you started taking it again your tolerance would likely sky rocket back to what it used to be probably within a couple days. At least that it how it has worked for me with any drugs I've used. Tolerance is "relearned" much much quicker then the rate at which it's developed the first time.

I mean it's true that when I stopped for 3 months once it had no effect on my tolerance, but this time it was 10 months and I felt at first at least, that it had had a big effect on it, though now I'm not so sure.

So you think that I'm actually not getting very high because my tolerance is still so high that I'm not taking enough?

(I mean it is true it had been at 16 grams a dose and now the most I've taken is 10.5...and I know it's not "recommended" I try to go back to taking what I had...but would that perhaps be the best chance I''d have at getting high?? Cause about a week ago I was nodding off at 9.5 grams and that wasn't just placebo....it's just so weird how unpredictable it seems to be now and I'm getting noticeably irritable from my doses...)

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Tolerance can go down with a really long break but unfortunately there is no way to prevent the fact that tolerance quickly builds back up to where you were once if you restart with regular use again. After restarting after a long break, your tolerance can pretty much sky rocket right back to where it used to be after only a few uses...

Best way to prevent this is to use sparingly

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Tolerance can go down with a really long break but unfortunately there is no way to prevent the fact that tolerance quickly builds back up to where you were once if you restart with regular use again. After restarting after a long break, your tolerance can pretty much sky rocket right back to where it used to be after only a few uses...

Best way to prevent this is to use sparingly

I totally agree with this. Probably why you're not getting much out of your kratom. It's phenomenon related to the kindling effect.

Also, iirc, you take other medications that might be affecting how the kratom feels.

 

[Ziiirp]

When does the RLS kick in (pun intended) for you guys after the last dose? It's been 24h after a 3.5g - dose of average grade, so atm I am wondering, whether to take a loperamid to sleep (have something to do tomorrow, otherwise I would just skip sleep, if necessary). I have an overall feeling of restlessness, in a positive way. No sign of unbearable restless limbs, yet though.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

It depends on the habit with worse habits causing RLS to kick in more quickly. Usually, i start to get RLS around 12-16 hours after dosing if it's a low-moderate habit. But I never get bad RLS from kratom. It's always mild

 

[Mycophile]

I totally agree with this. Probably why you're not getting much out of your kratom. It's phenomenon related to the kindling effect.

Also, iirc, you take other medications that might be affecting how the kratom feels.

One thing that's weird though is that I keep not being sure how much I need.

Like I have gotten high but it's very hit and miss and one day I'll think I found my dose and then the next that same dose doesn't work...so I'm guessing this is just rapidly returning tolerance so I can't really gauge my dose cause it's bouncing all over the place as my receptors or whatever are trying to figure out what to do with being re-introduced to this substance I'd had such a massive tolerance to after a 10 month break?

You think that might be it?

Cause like 10 days ago I obviously took too much as I was nodding out on 9.5 grams and that can't really be placebo I wouldn't think as I don't find that effect desirable....and yet the other day 10.5 felt like almost nothing, and I'm getting a lot of irritability.

It's like I get more side effects than I used to without as much of the high.

 

[Mycophile]

Slow-Mobius, this is what someone on Reddit said and what I thought was the case before, but even though i hope they are right, I unfortunately feel you might be because you said 20 mins isn't long enough to feel Kratom.

Is it really not possible to feel it in that amount of time?

I mean it's possible to feel a shot of alcohol in 20 mins time so why not Kratom?

Here's what this poster wrote:

OP I only read the most important parts. I'll tell you what's happening.
Kratom often has a "sweet spot". Take more than this, and it becomes less effective. What you're experiencing when u take the big dose and feel good for awhile, is your body metabolising the plant and the plasma levels reaching the "sweet spot"...then exceeding it and you lose the effects. Try starting with 3-4g and increasing it by 1g every 45min until you find the spot. But first:
To keep your doses down, say, every 5-7 days spend 2 days taking half your normal dose. The 3rd day, voila it works again. You can use this "formula" to lower dosage, too.

 

[Fresco]

Here's what this poster wrote:

OP I only read the most important parts. I'll tell you what's happening.
Kratom often has a "sweet spot". Take more than this, and it becomes less effective. What you're experiencing when u take the big dose and feel good for awhile, is your body metabolising the plant and the plasma levels reaching the "sweet spot"...then exceeding it and you lose the effects. Try starting with 3-4g and increasing it by 1g every 45min until you find the spot. But first:
To keep your doses down, say, every 5-7 days spend 2 days taking half your normal dose. The 3rd day, voila it works again. You can use this "formula" to lower dosage, too.

So is he saying you can beat tolerance this way as well??

 

[Ziiirp]

46h after last dose (3.5g) : Nothing serious to note, low energy, a bit leg pain (took 3 *2mg Loperamid in the last 24h, though). Sleep wasn't so awesome yesterday, but I usually sleep shitty anyway. It is now another kind of shitty sleep, but nothing to wine about.

Overall the feeling is like I took a crappy dissociative RC, which is also sedating. (nothing like DCK, though )

 

[Backfromthebrink]

OP I only read the most important parts. I'll tell you what's happening.
Kratom often has a "sweet spot". Take more than this, and it becomes less effective. What you're experiencing when u take the big dose and feel good for awhile, is your body metabolising the plant and the plasma levels reaching the "sweet spot"...then exceeding it and you lose the effects. Try starting with 3-4g and increasing it by 1g every 45min until you find the spot. But first:
To keep your doses down, say, every 5-7 days spend 2 days taking half your normal dose. The 3rd day, voila it works again. You can use this "formula" to lower dosage, too.

Always be dubious when people offer up "advice" like that without one shred of evidence as to why it would work like that. I mesn if they can show some physiological evidence of any such a sweet spot would exist and why taking more actually reduces it's effectiveness then fair enough, but usually they don't. Ivmesn there would need to exist some sort of negative feedback loop between dose and effect.

What Slow Mobus is talking about (kindling effect) and tollerence going up fast even after a break is different as that's a documented scientific fact with opiods but what this Reddit guy is saying sounds just like unsubstantiated nonsense unless he can prove to you that it isn't

 

[Fresco]

46h after last dose (3.5g) : Nothing serious to note, low energy, a bit leg pain (took 3 *2mg Loperamid in the last 24h, though). Sleep wasn't so awesome yesterday, but I usually sleep shitty anyway. It is now another kind of shitty sleep, but nothing to wine about.

Overall the feeling is like I took a crappy dissociative RC, which is also sedating. (nothing like DCK, though )

Sounds aboot right. Kratom is a piece of cake to withdraw from