Scrofula
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Bupe My short sub detox to treat short oxy addiction thread. Please comment.
- Thread starter ElleAZ
- Start date
I don't know how common leg pains are, but I finally got relief by cutting a lidocaine patch 5% in two pieces and slapping them on my calves.
Going into Day 6 with reduced pain, a sketchy stomach, and a prayer for everyone's healing.
Well into Day 6. Just some hot/cold issues and a sense of unease. HOWEVER, I have a UTI and I have had it for a while. I just found out on Wednesday that the hospital had discovered it a week previously. So I am now dealing with a painful, neglected UTI that is hurting my back and giving me fevers.
In hindsight, we are now curious how much of this has been infection.
Going into Day 6 with reduced pain, a sketchy stomach, and a prayer for everyone's healing.
Well into Day 6. Just some hot/cold issues and a sense of unease. HOWEVER, I have a UTI and I have had it for a while. I just found out on Wednesday that the hospital had discovered it a week previously. So I am now dealing with a painful, neglected UTI that is hurting my back and giving me fevers.
In hindsight, we are now curious how much of this has been infection.
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I actually wrote an article here about how to quit from suboxone. It might help answer some of your questions: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/828077-Here-is-some-good-SUBOXONE-info-to-HELP-YOU-QUIT!
First off yes, you can use suboxone as a short term detox. Another benefit is the psychological help since if you relapse on opiates within 36-72 hours of taking suboxone you won't feel anything due to suboxone's blocking effects.
In that article I also linked to an in depth article a suboxone doctor wrote regarding his successful experience with getting paitients off suboxone. It was written for other doctors to read. I don't like the official suboxone guide (the one you linked) as the company is there to make money. That article has some truth to it but it is written with legal issues and financial potential.
In my experience, due to suboxone's ceiling effect, most people need much less to achieve the same effect. I was prescribed 8mg a day when coming off my addiction (three 30mg roxis a day for several months) and found I only needed 2mg a day to starve off withdrawals (and reduce the negative side effects of suboxone). This is part because of suboxone's long 36-72 hour half-life. Every day you take suboxone at least HALF of what you took yesterday is still inside you. So you're stacking it.
On Day 1-2 you took 6mg each day. That means on day 2 you actually had 9mg in your system. On Day 3 you took 4mg which means you had 4.5mg left from day 2 resulting in 8.5mg total in your body. By Day 10, even though you only took 1mg, you actually had about 4mg in your body.
If that 1mg dose on day 10 was effective then it means the actual dose you needed in your body at any one time is no more then 4mg.
The way you are suppose to cut down on suboxone is to take the lowest dose you can handle and take that same dose for 3 DAYS. By day 3 you should be stable with mild (but tolerable) withdrawal. You can then reduce by 25-50% and take only that dose for 3 days. By doing this I got down from 2mg a day to .5mg in 2 weeks. At about .5mg to .25mg most people quit. The dose is so low it means you have sufficiently lowered your tolerance to have milder withdrawal symptoms.
The catch with suboxone is that the withdrawal symptoms are not as intense but they last longer. Instead of 3-5 days of hard withdrawals from an opiate you will have 5-10 days of a milder withdrawal. Luckily OTC medication like 500-1000mg of Tylenol & 400-600mg of Ibuprofen every 4-6 hours (for body aches), 60-120ml Loperamide (for loose stool, energy and muscle aches) and 3-5mg of melatonin at night (for sleep) should be sufficient to get past the mild but longer lasting symptoms.
Klonopin is effective for the first 1-3 days of withdrawal off of suboxone. This is because it will lower your blood pressure. High blood pressure is the main cause during withdrawal that causes the muscle aches, anxiety and insomnia. Although Xanax, Valium and Flexeril work the same way they have different half lives. Xanax is a few hours requiring many doses while the latter 2 are several days risking that you might stack it up in your system or feel groggy for longer then necessary. Klonopin is effective because it has a half life of about 35 hours which means it will keep your blood pressure down for a solid night and day and night again. Usual dose needed is .25mg then another .25mg an hour later if not effective.
Check out the post I liked above, the info there and the article written by the doctor was what helped me get off of an 18 month suboxone maintenance program in about 30 days. If you have only been on suboxone for less then 30 days it should work even faster for you.
First off yes, you can use suboxone as a short term detox. Another benefit is the psychological help since if you relapse on opiates within 36-72 hours of taking suboxone you won't feel anything due to suboxone's blocking effects.
In that article I also linked to an in depth article a suboxone doctor wrote regarding his successful experience with getting paitients off suboxone. It was written for other doctors to read. I don't like the official suboxone guide (the one you linked) as the company is there to make money. That article has some truth to it but it is written with legal issues and financial potential.
In my experience, due to suboxone's ceiling effect, most people need much less to achieve the same effect. I was prescribed 8mg a day when coming off my addiction (three 30mg roxis a day for several months) and found I only needed 2mg a day to starve off withdrawals (and reduce the negative side effects of suboxone). This is part because of suboxone's long 36-72 hour half-life. Every day you take suboxone at least HALF of what you took yesterday is still inside you. So you're stacking it.
On Day 1-2 you took 6mg each day. That means on day 2 you actually had 9mg in your system. On Day 3 you took 4mg which means you had 4.5mg left from day 2 resulting in 8.5mg total in your body. By Day 10, even though you only took 1mg, you actually had about 4mg in your body.
If that 1mg dose on day 10 was effective then it means the actual dose you needed in your body at any one time is no more then 4mg.
The way you are suppose to cut down on suboxone is to take the lowest dose you can handle and take that same dose for 3 DAYS. By day 3 you should be stable with mild (but tolerable) withdrawal. You can then reduce by 25-50% and take only that dose for 3 days. By doing this I got down from 2mg a day to .5mg in 2 weeks. At about .5mg to .25mg most people quit. The dose is so low it means you have sufficiently lowered your tolerance to have milder withdrawal symptoms.
The catch with suboxone is that the withdrawal symptoms are not as intense but they last longer. Instead of 3-5 days of hard withdrawals from an opiate you will have 5-10 days of a milder withdrawal. Luckily OTC medication like 500-1000mg of Tylenol & 400-600mg of Ibuprofen every 4-6 hours (for body aches), 60-120ml Loperamide (for loose stool, energy and muscle aches) and 3-5mg of melatonin at night (for sleep) should be sufficient to get past the mild but longer lasting symptoms.
Klonopin is effective for the first 1-3 days of withdrawal off of suboxone. This is because it will lower your blood pressure. High blood pressure is the main cause during withdrawal that causes the muscle aches, anxiety and insomnia. Although Xanax, Valium and Flexeril work the same way they have different half lives. Xanax is a few hours requiring many doses while the latter 2 are several days risking that you might stack it up in your system or feel groggy for longer then necessary. Klonopin is effective because it has a half life of about 35 hours which means it will keep your blood pressure down for a solid night and day and night again. Usual dose needed is .25mg then another .25mg an hour later if not effective.
Check out the post I liked above, the info there and the article written by the doctor was what helped me get off of an 18 month suboxone maintenance program in about 30 days. If you have only been on suboxone for less then 30 days it should work even faster for you.
wolf359loki
Bluelighter
I agree with this. I am on day 5 of my detox and my 3rd day with suboxone. I did a lot of research and decide to use a similar method. I wasn't worried about feeling a bit off as I had already tampered down to 12mg of dilaudid in 3 doses a day. I was at that level for about 10 days and I felt some of the WD effects. I waited about 30 hours after my last dose to start suboxone. I then only took 2mg in the normal way. It took the edge off my symptoms, but didn't make them entirely gone.
Over the next 3 days I kept my level at 2mg and felt stable. Today I started the second phase. I lowered my dose to 1mg but changes my ROA to nasal. This way I increased the BA of the product. I will remain at this leve for 5 more days and then drop to 0.5mg for another 5 days. Depending on how I feel of course.
I also have a LOT of experience with peptides and I am going to add two of them used SubQ. Semex And Selank are two products to help balance brain chemistry. Some of the issues with long term opiod use and addiction is our bodies stop producing many of these chemicals. Having the suboxone on the receptors help as it doesn't as many of those chemicals, but they are still slow to recover. The peptides will help with this and help reduce that long process of recover to "Feeling Normal".
I may also add hgh (human growth hormone) to help with the healing. Since I distribute these products I have easy access and none of them are blackmailer.
Thanks for your article and I will keep it to review.
Stay strong.
Day 7. This is the first day that I didn't grab for the pain medication. I'm cold, which is a new thing to be sure. Now I think I can attribute anything unpleasant to a raging UTI. At lest I hope so. Opioid Detox isn't linear and I hope I don' get jumped next week.
My joy doesn't compare to my grief. We just had a vet to the house to put our dog of 13 years to sleep. Sophie was awesome and she was my first dog. It hurts and I am so tired of hurting.
I'm going to let this thread go as there are more pressing issues here. A housewife's detox diary can't be riveting reading. I don't think at this rate the suboxone has it out for me. If so, I'll whine here a little longer.
My joy doesn't compare to my grief. We just had a vet to the house to put our dog of 13 years to sleep. Sophie was awesome and she was my first dog. It hurts and I am so tired of hurting.
I'm going to let this thread go as there are more pressing issues here. A housewife's detox diary can't be riveting reading. I don't think at this rate the suboxone has it out for me. If so, I'll whine here a little longer.
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Keep posting your story. A lot of people are afraid to quit because of fear of the unknown. Reading someones day-by-day story makes it more approachable. Especially when they read that withdrawal isn't one long hellish process but more of an up and down swing that progressively gets better.
Okay.
Day 8. I was up at 3am last night with coldness. Not chills, but coldness. And little muscle spasms. I ended up taking 2 Robaxin 750 and magnesium, and watching TV for a while before returning to bed at 5am and sleeping until 11.
I wonder when the temperature changes will go away. God, I hope menopause isn't around the corner. Still taking .05 clonidine as needed.
I am really so frustrated with not being able to enjoy my life. It's been 8 days off suboxone, 17 days off of opiates, and three months total since I have been drug free.
Lack of appetite made it hard to take my vitamins so I finally ate and will take them. They do make a difference.
The negative thoughts aren't leaving. They make me so sad. I don't want to wish time away but I can't wait for two weeks to pass. I miss me.
ETA: my fatigue is staggering. I shake just pushing a cart in the store. The fatigue is not linear. I have "good" and bad days.
8PM. End of Day 8. I am about to go to bed but my stomach feels warm, like I am sick. It's very annoying. I'll take Zofran and Prilosec again and hope it works so I can sleep.
Eta I think the Bactrim I am taking is responsible for this misery. I had no idea it could cause gas, nausea, itchy skin, and fatigue. Maybe when this is over I will be w/d free.
Day 8. I was up at 3am last night with coldness. Not chills, but coldness. And little muscle spasms. I ended up taking 2 Robaxin 750 and magnesium, and watching TV for a while before returning to bed at 5am and sleeping until 11.
I wonder when the temperature changes will go away. God, I hope menopause isn't around the corner. Still taking .05 clonidine as needed.
I am really so frustrated with not being able to enjoy my life. It's been 8 days off suboxone, 17 days off of opiates, and three months total since I have been drug free.
Lack of appetite made it hard to take my vitamins so I finally ate and will take them. They do make a difference.
The negative thoughts aren't leaving. They make me so sad. I don't want to wish time away but I can't wait for two weeks to pass. I miss me.
ETA: my fatigue is staggering. I shake just pushing a cart in the store. The fatigue is not linear. I have "good" and bad days.
8PM. End of Day 8. I am about to go to bed but my stomach feels warm, like I am sick. It's very annoying. I'll take Zofran and Prilosec again and hope it works so I can sleep.
Eta I think the Bactrim I am taking is responsible for this misery. I had no idea it could cause gas, nausea, itchy skin, and fatigue. Maybe when this is over I will be w/d free.
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wolf359loki
Bluelighter
Hello.
Today was a hard day. The combination of WD and boredom made we very attempted to call for an order. I have dropped to 1mg a day for the past 3 days. I didn't start me induction as high as many others. Most take 8 or 16mg +n the first day and after. I started at only 2mg for the first few days. I knew the half life of suboxone was about 36 hours and was expecting some issues. The urge to take an opiod was very strong. I even caught my self drug seeking by shaking old containers. I asked my self "what If you find an old stash" so I stopped that and went to run errands.
I was also aware this may happen, but the desire was very strong.
The drop in engery was very obvious too as I had read about that also.
Keep writing as you have people reading.
Stay sober and strong.
Today was a hard day. The combination of WD and boredom made we very attempted to call for an order. I have dropped to 1mg a day for the past 3 days. I didn't start me induction as high as many others. Most take 8 or 16mg +n the first day and after. I started at only 2mg for the first few days. I knew the half life of suboxone was about 36 hours and was expecting some issues. The urge to take an opiod was very strong. I even caught my self drug seeking by shaking old containers. I asked my self "what If you find an old stash" so I stopped that and went to run errands.
I was also aware this may happen, but the desire was very strong.
The drop in engery was very obvious too as I had read about that also.
Keep writing as you have people reading.
Stay sober and strong.
Elleaz I’m so sorry for all your losses! Especially your poor dog on New Year’s Eve! What a horrible time to deal with all this! I too just had to deal with my grandmothers 1 year anniversary of leaving this earth on New Year’s Eve too (while withdrawing). All these jabs and obstacles that are thrown at us are tests. You show them all you can beat them and yell and curse at them (in your head***) lol it’s literally -1 degrees here right now. I so wish i could get outside. I did finally decide to get the snow off one of my cars last night as an attempt of some exercise. Today is day 4 with no sub and day 8 no opiates! Stay strong, your a fighter!
Day 11 and I am suffering insomnia for the third night. Trazadone doesn't work. I hate this.
I did eek out a few hours after taking a warm bath.
When people say that they are 80% I understand. I feel almost okay. My temps are still off. There's a weird layer of heat under my skin. My appetite is still off. My stomach is still very slow. I feel gross, but I'm not in pain or thinking of the medication.
It felt great to delete all of the alarms from my cell phone that demanded I take my medication. There is an end to this.
I did eek out a few hours after taking a warm bath.
When people say that they are 80% I understand. I feel almost okay. My temps are still off. There's a weird layer of heat under my skin. My appetite is still off. My stomach is still very slow. I feel gross, but I'm not in pain or thinking of the medication.
It felt great to delete all of the alarms from my cell phone that demanded I take my medication. There is an end to this.
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Day 16 off subs, 25 off oxycodone.
I am struggling to make it through the day. My fatigue is unbearable. This could be because of the drugs or the surgery, don't know.
My stomach is still sour. Sleep comes slowly. The temp changes continue and I wake up in sweat. There is residual pain in my calves and muscle spasms continue below the knees. I force myself to be productive but my back is a mess and adding to the problems. I took a robaxin last night and half a clonidine for the sweats only to feel anxious and doped up.
No rest is fulfilling because there is always some pain or unease to greet me. My heart still jumps randomly. There is always this heat under my skin but my temp is very low.
I am having very negative thoughts from the sheer fact that I have suffered daily and continuously for over three months.
This week I will need to see the chiro three more times. I am going to add some massages to see if I can turn this around.
I am struggling to make it through the day. My fatigue is unbearable. This could be because of the drugs or the surgery, don't know.
My stomach is still sour. Sleep comes slowly. The temp changes continue and I wake up in sweat. There is residual pain in my calves and muscle spasms continue below the knees. I force myself to be productive but my back is a mess and adding to the problems. I took a robaxin last night and half a clonidine for the sweats only to feel anxious and doped up.
No rest is fulfilling because there is always some pain or unease to greet me. My heart still jumps randomly. There is always this heat under my skin but my temp is very low.
I am having very negative thoughts from the sheer fact that I have suffered daily and continuously for over three months.
This week I will need to see the chiro three more times. I am going to add some massages to see if I can turn this around.
tuck3838
Greenlighter
I was on subs for years and iv been off the since dec12th i know how you feel i keep telling myself to get through the day and tomoro will be better im getting pretty discouraged tho the lack of energy is the worst part i dont want to do anything but it will get better it just takes alot of time.
Im intrested in compareing our expeirence with this. good luck and hang in there.
Im intrested in compareing our expeirence with this. good luck and hang in there.
Day 19 off of opiates. I am still struggling with insomnia, muscle spasm, gastric distress, and temperature regulation. My body temp was 97.4 at the doctor's this morning. Pulse is 66. I have had one day since September 28th when I did not feel exhausted and it was yesterday.
This is so slow but at least it is now steady.
Off of all RX drugs now, even for gas and muscle spasms. This is where I wanted to be. Just me and and my healthy body.
This is so slow but at least it is now steady.
Off of all RX drugs now, even for gas and muscle spasms. This is where I wanted to be. Just me and and my healthy body.
Backfromthebrink
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2017
- Messages
- 847
Not subs but methadone. I came off on June 30th 2015 and didn't started feel better again until the following March....subs and methadone have stupidly long withdrawls....that's why so many people relapse...they just cant see any end in sight...but it does get better eventually..you just need to distract yourself with something to avoid every day becoming a battle and eventually the time passes....don't think about how bad you will feel tomorrow just get on with today.. tomorrow is another day and eventually it passes.....you're past the worst..just got to be strong
Good luck
tuck3838
Greenlighter
Thank you