Hexagon Sun
Bluelighter
Yeah, we have like 500 5ht psychedelics and only a bunch of dissos. Come on, chemists, do your work, shut up and take my money 
Miscellaneous The Big & Dandy Psychedelics of the Future Thread
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LucidSDreamr
Bluelighter
Flourinated mxe analogues would bring about something amazing I feel like
bindingaffinity
Bluelighter
2F-MXE could be an interesting one. I wonder how the 3-trifluoromethoxy or N-trifluoroethyl analogue would turn out.
It might also be worth investigating analogues of some of the NMDA antagonist neuroprotective compounds that made it to clinical trials but not to market. (Specifically, they didn't make it to market because of dissociative subjective effects.) We know a safe (short-term, at least) dosage range in humans because of the clinical trials, unlike we would with a completely new compound. Of course, it could be that they just aren't very recreational or insightful.
It might also be worth investigating analogues of some of the NMDA antagonist neuroprotective compounds that made it to clinical trials but not to market. (Specifically, they didn't make it to market because of dissociative subjective effects.) We know a safe (short-term, at least) dosage range in humans because of the clinical trials, unlike we would with a completely new compound. Of course, it could be that they just aren't very recreational or insightful.
I B Profane
Bluelighter
Hey guys
What if someone made a dissociative that took all the best parts of ketamine, MXE, and 3meopcp, left out all the bad parts, and added a whole lot more awesome parts? That would be my ideal drug. I'm not sure if something even close to that exists. I hope someone can prove me wrong some day.
What if someone made a dissociative that took all the best parts of ketamine, MXE, and 3meopcp, left out all the bad parts, and added a whole lot more awesome parts? That would be my ideal drug. I'm not sure if something even close to that exists. I hope someone can prove me wrong some day.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
To me, MXE is pretty much the perfect disso already. But I'd try what you are suggesting for sure.
From what I recall reading, 2-oxo-PCP and 3-MeO-2-oxo-PCP are either impossible or virtually impossible to make. I read that from someone on here but can't recall where.
From what I recall reading, 2-oxo-PCP and 3-MeO-2-oxo-PCP are either impossible or virtually impossible to make. I read that from someone on here but can't recall where.
bindingaffinity
Bluelighter
Found the thread. http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/697535-3-MeO-2-Oxo-PCP?p=11920787&viewfull=1#post11920787
As for cyclohexyl-substituted phencyclidine derivatives in general:
2'-MeO-PCP and 2'-Me-PCP have been synthesized; the former had a faster onset than ketamine (it was not compared to phencyclidine in vivo in the study), and the trans-(-) isomer of the latter is twice as potent as phencyclidine in vivo (5x in vitro) (trans-(+) isomer less active, cis isomers inactive). Cis-4'-Me-PCP was also active but less potent.
As for cyclohexyl-substituted phencyclidine derivatives in general:
2'-MeO-PCP and 2'-Me-PCP have been synthesized; the former had a faster onset than ketamine (it was not compared to phencyclidine in vivo in the study), and the trans-(-) isomer of the latter is twice as potent as phencyclidine in vivo (5x in vitro) (trans-(+) isomer less active, cis isomers inactive). Cis-4'-Me-PCP was also active but less potent.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Interesting, thanks. 
Also great job on finding the thread.
Also great job on finding the thread.
nepalnt21
Bluelighter
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speculation: dimethyl amt may have less of the percieved negatives due to stimulation while retaining its psychedelic and/ or anti depression properties...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine
"N,N-Dimethyl-AMT" (AKA a,N,N-Trimethyltryptamine or a-TMT) has been tested on lab rats:
"α-TMT has been tested in animals in comparison with α-MT and was found to produce similar effects, but with only around half the potency."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Α,N,N-Trimethyltryptamine
Shulgin evaluated a,N-DMT (or N-Methyl-AMT, if you will) in humans, but found it to be basically worthless:
"(with 50 mg, orally) "Something was going on, and it was rather strong a couple of hours into it, but there doesn't seem to be anything particularly psychedelic here. I am wakeful and alert, maybe a little bit starry-eyed as if I were wearing glasses with the wrong prescription. Maybe a little bit light-headed as well. It was several hours before these physical discomforts disappeared."
(with 75 mg, orally) "Compulsive sneezing, and quite uncomfortable. Urpy. Tried eating some quiche, and couldn't do it -- no appetite at all. Pulse seems to be proper, but it is almost as if I were using speed without any of the stimulant virtues. After about three or four hours I am losing the buzziness property and am pretty much normal in three or for more hours. Still some teeth clench. Sleep OK. I'm not sure that going higher is worth it. Or even repeating it. Why?"
So basically the worst of both worlds - heavy bodyload, but weaker than AMT as a stim/empathogen, and little if any psychedelic activity.
So I kind of doubt whether a,N,N-TMT would be particularly worthwhile to humans.
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Transcendence
Bluelighter
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What are the most psychedelic entacogens? I remember one trip report (maybe xorkoth or morningglory idk) about MDEA. It was overwhelmingly positive and described like a film you could control with closed eyes.
MXM is the only psychedelic I've tried was both very euphoric/comforting and produced CEVs that I could reliably consciously control. I could think of anything and then see it an explore it, including memories. I've tried a lot of different psyches but could only experience that on MXM.
MXM is the only psychedelic I've tried was both very euphoric/comforting and produced CEVs that I could reliably consciously control. I could think of anything and then see it an explore it, including memories. I've tried a lot of different psyches but could only experience that on MXM.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I've never had MDEA so it wasn't me.
I find AMT to be my favorite empathogen from among all of them, including MDMA, and it's also a psychedelic. I find it heavier on the empathogen side, but definitely psychedelic as well. I also find 2C-B-fly to be lightly psychedelic, but also quite entactogenic. Probably the one I can think of that is the most psychedelic while still being somewhat entactogenic is 4-HO-MiPT... that stuff is definitely quite psychedelic, but I also find it euphoric and a bit rushy and it makes me want to talk to people. 5-MeO-MiPT is also quite good, it's probably more entactogenic and less psychedelic than 4-HO-MiPT.
I find AMT to be my favorite empathogen from among all of them, including MDMA, and it's also a psychedelic. I find it heavier on the empathogen side, but definitely psychedelic as well. I also find 2C-B-fly to be lightly psychedelic, but also quite entactogenic. Probably the one I can think of that is the most psychedelic while still being somewhat entactogenic is 4-HO-MiPT... that stuff is definitely quite psychedelic, but I also find it euphoric and a bit rushy and it makes me want to talk to people. 5-MeO-MiPT is also quite good, it's probably more entactogenic and less psychedelic than 4-HO-MiPT.
Transcendence
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5-meo-mipt is certainly interesting. I enjoyed it. More psychedelic than MDA but no suicidal comedown and a reasonable duration. Felt kind of like psychedelic cocaine in a way. Pretty gentle.
Haven't tried 4-HO-Mipt but it's on my radar.
I remember a vendor who scewed up and sold something like 2cb-fly as mxe or something way less potent, resulting in a couple deaths including the vendor. That plus the long duration kind of put me off that for a bit. 2-CB was one of my favorites, next to 2-CC and 2-CE. Does 2-CB-Fly feel similar?
Haven't tried 4-HO-Mipt but it's on my radar.
I remember a vendor who scewed up and sold something like 2cb-fly as mxe or something way less potent, resulting in a couple deaths including the vendor. That plus the long duration kind of put me off that for a bit. 2-CB was one of my favorites, next to 2-CC and 2-CE. Does 2-CB-Fly feel similar?
No, Haupt-RC (don't think this counts as "vendor discussion" since the guy's dead, after all) were selling "2C-B-FLY" that turned out to be Bromo-DragonFLY. 2C-B-FLY is fairly gentle and not much more potent than 2C-B, and the duration (while longer than that of 2C-B) is still only about as long as that of LSD. Bromo-DragonFLY, on the other hand, has the potency of an NBOMe (i.e. about 20 times that of 2C-B-FLY) and the duration of DOB (1.5 mg of DOB can easily have you tripping for 24+ hours, so you can imagine how long people were tripping after ingesting more than 5 mg of the more potent Bromo-DFLY), with major vasoconstriction.
Small nitpick: It's "2C-B" not "2-CB". The "2C" stands for "two carbons", referring to the fact that they are psychedelic phenylethylamines (with a two-carbon chain on the amine) derived from a psychedelic amphetamine (with a propan-2-amine, i.e. 3-carbon-chain). Ex.: DOB (3 carbons) => 2C-B (2 carbons). Likewise, psychedelic amphetamines derived from phenylethylamines are referred to as "3C-x" (ex.: Proscaline => 3C-P).
Transcendence
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You're right, that's what the deal was. Hmm, now 2C-B-Fly is sounding like it might be a nice alternative to 5-meo-mipt and 2C-B.
You're absolutely right about the nomenclature. I'm a chemist and chemistry teacher, but also usually stoned stupid by the time I make the rounds to psychedelic discussion. Too much ptsd otherwise....
You're absolutely right about the nomenclature. I'm a chemist and chemistry teacher, but also usually stoned stupid by the time I make the rounds to psychedelic discussion. Too much ptsd otherwise....
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
2C-B-fly is great, there's a great, light body high and euphoria and some color enhancement (but I've never had actual visuals on it). Only problem is it's damn expensive. All the 2Cs are these days (oh to be able to travel back in time to 2001 before web tryp), but 2C-B-fly is even more so.
nepalnt21
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reports ive read of both 2c-b-fly and 2c-t-21 indicate that they have a heightened empathogenic quality as compared to other typical psychedelics; perhaps 2c-t-21-fly would be a (probably long-lived) good one for roll-y psychedelic experience?
im also interested in other 2c-X-fly compounds... why have these not been explored? have people been turned off due to the bromo-dragonfly deaths?
im also interested in other 2c-X-fly compounds... why have these not been explored? have people been turned off due to the bromo-dragonfly deaths?
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
You and me both, man. I've really wanted to see some other fly compounds. I've really wanted to see 2C-E-fly in particular ever since 2006 when 2C-B-fly first hit the scene. I bet 2C-C-fly would be excellent too. Then again, who can say for sure? I don't know of the others ever even being made anywhere by anyone even for research.
You're right about 2C-B-fly and 2C-T-21. T-21 actually reminds me of 2C-B-fly a good bit, not the same but similar. 2C-T-21-fly could indeed be pretty excellent.
You're right about 2C-B-fly and 2C-T-21. T-21 actually reminds me of 2C-B-fly a good bit, not the same but similar. 2C-T-21-fly could indeed be pretty excellent.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
Ive had mdea....seemed like a mellow mdma. Perhaps you are thinking of my mmda experience....that was highly psychedelic....even hallucinogenic.
Yeah, MMDA is the 3,4-cyclized version of TriMethoxyAmphetamine (AKA alpha-methyl-mescaline), so one would expect it to show significant psychedelic activity, especially since the dose is usually pretty high.
MMDA-2 is supposed to be even more psychedelic (albeit less active as a monoamine releasing agent), being the cyclized analogue of TMA-2.
According to some guy on reddit (not necessarily the most trustworthy source, I know), a vendor is going to introduce "5-MeO-APB" to the market soon, although I am unsure whether the "5-MeO" refers to the 5-position on the aromatic ring (which would make it an analogue of MMDA), or whether it is actual 5-MethOxy-6-2-AminoPropyl-Benzofuran, which would be an analogue of MMDA-2.