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⫸STICKY⫷ Growing this forum- Suggestions for Improving P&S

^ why not just skim the titles and don't read the ones with topics you don't like. A person like yourself should be able to figure out rather quickly from reading the title of the thread or the first paragraph of a post if you want to read further and participate in it. It only takes less than a minute to survey the entire set of recent posts in the P&S for something worth reading or posting in. Better yet, why not create some topics you yourself would like to read and participate in if you can't find ones you like? I'm sure people would be grateful. As for the person who wants to post about Christianity or Tarot cards, if that topic interests them they should be able to create it and not have to worry about offending you. I'd personally you rather not participate in topics you have nothing but disdain for as it benefits nobody. If censorship is what you are proposing then yes, your idea is unpopular with me. If you are proposing splitting the P&S into P forum and S forum that isn't a terrible idea. Of course there are only 2-3 topics created every week these days so it doesn't really make sense at this time, but perhaps if it grows really large that would be a logical next step.
 
levels said:
^ why not just skim the titles and don't read the ones with topics you don't like. A person like yourself should be able to figure out rather quickly from reading the title of the thread or the first paragraph of a post if you want to read further and participate in it. It only takes less than a minute to survey the entire set of recent posts in the P&S for something worth reading or posting in. Better yet, why not create some topics you yourself would like to read and participate in if you can't find ones you like? I'm sure people would be grateful. As for the person who wants to post about Christianity or Tarot cards, if that topic interests them they should be able to create it and not have to worry about offending you. I'd personally you rather not participate in topics you have nothing but disdain for as it benefits nobody. If censorship is what you are proposing then yes, your idea is unpopular with me. If you are proposing splitting the P&S into P forum and S forum that isn't a terrible idea. Of course there are only 2-3 topics created every week these days so it doesn't really make sense at this time, but perhaps if it grows really large that would be a logical next step.
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I don't participate in threads that I have distain for. I could stick to more interesting threads, but like I said before, one of the problems is there aren't many genuine spiritual threads here and even fewer genuine philosophical ones. And I dunno why but I'm just not the type to start new threads. Probably a self esteem issue I dunno. I have thought about it before though.

I'm not sure what the solution is. One thought I had was maybe some kind of labeling system like what TDS had before it got split into TDS, mental health and sober living.

So maybe you could label your thread as philosophical, spiritual, religious, paranormal, new age,etc etc. combined perhaps with a rename of the subforum. Not sure what you'd call it then, but what all these things have in common is that they're all about challenging the mainstream, accepted beliefs.

I was more explaining why I tend to stay out of this part of the site more than offering solutions. But no, I have no particular desire to censor anyone. P&s is like this for a reason and trying to force it into being something else doesn't seem like it would be an effective solution. A better idea might be to expand what this part of the site focuses on. And change the description to better reflect it.

And actually I'd have no problem with threads on Christian topics. While it's a bit more religious than spiritual, it's certainly more spiritual than say, tarot cards or ghosts or whatever. And personally I find Christian theology interesting so I don't really have an issue with that.
 
This forum has, at various periods of time, contained a lot of the kind of material you are looking for... at times those posters have chased off the conspiracy theory type of discussion. At times this forum has been full of people flaming each other, and at other times, like now, it's fairly dead. Ultimately, the reason it's fairly dead right now is that the only people starting threads (not literally, but mostly) are people posting threads about stuff that many people don't care to discuss. The only way the forum can grow again is if people post the types of things they want to discuss.

I like your idea for labeling new threads with the "type", that's not a bad idea.

I'm sure it would be interesting if you started a thread. :)

I do kinda think that the new agey sort of threads have chased off a number of people, but people have the right to post what they want, the forum is always here, people can come back and contribute whatever content they want.
 
To be honest there aren't many so-called conspiracy theory threads here anymore. I personally like to explore topics that are outside the accepted norm and was happy P&S provided an outlet for it. Topics that Jess would call stupid are interesting to me. I'm not so threatened personally by discussing topics that may turn out to be bullshit. If an argument can be debunked, I got no qualms debunking it. I find the challenge of debunking an argument fun. I've learned to have thicker skin to what people think about these topics and not let it stop me from saying what I want to say, but the typical protests that accompany each fringe topic is predictable and exhausting. I know the topics that interest me and opinions I express here are mostly not welcome and I'll move on from the P&S soon enough so that more sensible things can be discussed. I got better things to do with my time anyways.

We used to have a poster called Ninae who unfortunately is no longer with us. She started lots of threads about fringe topics that made people, including myself, groan at times. She got bullied really hard for it. It kinda pissed me off even though I also saw why she was having that effect on people. Turns out I learned more from her than any other poster here. I got exposed to lots of different ideas on spiritual topics and it forced me to deepen my own understanding and exposure to things that were new to me. I wanted to participate in the conversation as strange as it was and that forced me to question my own understanding and learn more. I really enjoyed those days here at Bluelight. To me it wasn't stupid at all.
 
I hope so too.

I just think this forum is having a quiet spell. It happens. Though I personally have no interest in most of the topics these days :\
 
xorkoth said:
I wonder what's going on with Ninae?
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I hired a psychic and a medium to look into it and got independent confirmation. I got a strong feeling about it myself a while back that something went very wrong and used muscle testing to get an answer. The psychic and medium backed up my conclusion and gave me details about what happened. Couldn't find a conventional means of checking up on her though I tried a few leads like contacting the person who gave her the angel reading (which she posted online). Ninae would appreciate my methods cause that's what she was all about, but I don't expect anyone else to give it any weight and won't share what I found out of respect and benefit of the doubt. I got my own closure though that I won't see her here again.
 
I really hope she is okay. I'm not going to buy into your allusions Levels, you don't know anything more than anybody else. But, I have a bad feeling- based purely on the huge time elapsed in between Ninae's last online appearance. I PMed her a few months back and got no reply.

I really do hope she is safe and sound somewhere.

levels said:
We used to have a poster called Ninae who unfortunately is no longer with us. She started lots of threads about fringe topics that made people, including myself, groan at times. She got bullied really hard for it.
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Selective memory IMO. When I was a P&S mod, there was a massive problem with Ninae and others dominating the forum. You call it being bullied, most would call it having a discussion and disputing some of her more outlandish claims, which deserved to be disputed because they were 'aired' in public. It really spiralled out of control to the extent that a sort of provision in the rules kept being invoked; that if someone starts a topic, but mentions they don't want to argue their case or whatever, nobody should disagree or argue with them. And so, it becomes a circle jerk of a very limited number of people pleasantly agreeing with each other, whilst others who don't are forbidden from saying so. This is not unusual, online communities have become more insular and we see it in P&S. It does not mean that the community is in agreement, it simply means that the community is largely and prominently constituted by those in agreement. This is a slippery slope and leads to stifling of thought, but it is what has happened her.

Frankly, I have always disagreed with the idea that someone can both start a discussion AND determine how it plays out. I mean, the whole point of posting something publicly should be to generate input from perspectives may otherwise be occluded. For me, I started getting insulted and called negative or having it implied I was close minded because I was sceptical. I was even told I was trying to further a satanic and antireligious agenda because I disagreed with much of what people consider to be spirtual. It was amusing because new-age folk often simulate openness and introspection. That is absolutely not the experience I have had here.

Anyway, its done now, the culture in the forum has shifted and, ostensibly, the shift has been towards what a large number of users continually claimed they wanted. Unfortunately, as a result lot of people that used to post here no longer do, and I personally relate that to the cultural shift. There are way less topics started and topics don't pick up too much steam before petering out. My own reasoning for non-participation is because I do not feel like I am really welcome, at all. Its really no great loss, I did not contribute genius insight and I am pretty well assured that I'm not missing out on genius insight by not participating.
 
swilow said:
I hope so too.

I just think this forum is having a quiet spell. It happens. Though I personally have no interest in most of the topics these days :\
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levels said:
To be honest there aren't many so-called conspiracy theory threads here anymore. I personally like to explore topics that are outside the accepted norm and was happy P&S provided an outlet for it. Topics that Jess would call stupid are interesting to me. I'm not so threatened personally by discussing topics that may turn out to be bullshit. If an argument can be debunked, I got no qualms debunking it. I find the challenge of debunking an argument fun. I've learned to have thicker skin to what people think about these topics and not let it stop me from saying what I want to say, but the typical protests that accompany each fringe topic is predictable and exhausting. I know the topics that interest me and opinions I express here are mostly not welcome and I'll move on from the P&S soon enough so that more sensible things can be discussed. I got better things to do with my time anyways.

We used to have a poster called Ninae who unfortunately is no longer with us. She started lots of threads about fringe topics that made people, including myself, groan at times. She got bullied really hard for it. It kinda pissed me off even though I also saw why she was having that effect on people. Turns out I learned more from her than any other poster here. I got exposed to lots of different ideas on spiritual topics and it forced me to deepen my own understanding and exposure to things that were new to me. I wanted to participate in the conversation as strange as it was and that forced me to question my own understanding and learn more. I really enjoyed those days here at Bluelight. To me it wasn't stupid at all.
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I'll admit I have a very low opinion of psychics and mediums and so forth. But I have an even worse opinion of bully's. Bullying people is unacceptable. Even if I agree their opinions are stupid, I agree that's no excuse for bullying anyone.

As for debunking topics. I've given up on it. I don't argue this kinda stuff anymore. People who believe this kinda thing rarely have a sufficient grasp of logical rational thinking that they can be argued with that way.

But that's why I just ignore it. Much as I have such a low opinion of people believing such things. At the end of the day, I still care about their feelings.

I might think believing in psychics is stupid, but I still don't have the heart to tell people in detail what I really think about it. I don't like hurting people. And since you can't win or get anywhere through calm reasoned debate. I just avoid it all entirely.
 
Ninae told me by PM that she was seriously considering leaving BL because she did not feel welcome, especially in P&S. So we don't need to speculate anymore or consult psychic services. She vanished within weeks of our communication.

swilow, it makes me kind of sad to know you don't feel welcome because you feel somehow stifled. I wonder if I did anything to contribute to that. When I first joined BL years ago before I ever became a mod, P A and ebola? were running P&S and the culture was the opposite. The focus was heavily on academic philosophy and the school of rationality, such that casual seekers and other kinds of beliefs got shot down. In my own limited fashion I tried to champion other ways of talking about things... but now I feel the culture has shifted a bit to the opposite side of the spectrum, where the academic philosophers never come around. P&S has shown it has natural trends that take it to many places but I feel it's lacking some traditional philosophy at this point.

I would ideally like to see a balance of both casual and rational discussion.

My understanding of freedom of speech in P&S is that it's been welcome as long as posters tolerate one another. There has frankly been a lot of rudeness going both ways. Ninae is a good example. She had some very... out there... ideas. People were getting annoyed with her, so they started making fun of her personally in her threads to get her to stop. In general people shit on science, or they shit on spiritual woo woo people. Then people get inflamed and stop posting because, let's face it, this is just a forum and who wants to dedicate so much time only to be insulted.

I would encourage people of all stripes to start posting more of the topics they want to see. Come as you are. And if you experience intolerance from others then please report it. I try my best to spot things and be objective when it comes to moderating but I don't always see it. Ultimately this sub-forum relies on participation to stay alive.

The honesty so far is very much appreciated because it helps me to get a picture of the kind of culture people are and are not looking for here.
 
Ninae is a good example because it really did go both ways with/for her. I saw her say some really nasty shit to swilow and others, and vice versa, and I saw both sides get a big ego about it sometimes. In general it seems to me that anytime there is a group discussion about these kinds of subjects, people are naturally divided into two camps (roughly) - those that strong support the paranormal/spiritual/intangible topics, and those who strongly support empirical science. It seems there are few who really lie in the middle of these groups (I try to be...), and the two groups seem to be really at odds with each other. I think it's just that, in questions about the nature of reality and what life is, people tend to take dissent very personally. I think it's because we can feel threatened when our beliefs are challenged, because beliefs about reality, death, and so on are extremely deep-level in our consciousness and important to us, we cling to them, really. We all try to fashion a familiar and logical-seeming frame of reference for ourselves, because life is intense and chaotic. But we all need to remember that everyone has their own truth and their own reality. We shouldn't be trying to convince each other that "you're wrong" (which is really saying, or at least also saying, "I'm right"). There's no reason to argue about it, it's just interesting to present your ideas and hear about other peoples' ideas and then discuss. Friendly debate is good, but arguing is bad. Arguing happens when people become threatened and lash out. Condescension and anger/aggression are the same thing, they're both tools of protection. If we could remove that element, people who believed all sorts of ways could be here together. If you see a thread you don't like, don't read it, and participate in the threads you do like. I think the only reason that isn't happening right now is because of a fairly recent storm of aggression and wounded reactions that caused a lot of people to feel like you can't post here unless you agree with the majority.

It doesn't have to be that way. And IMO it hasn't really been lately, people have been very civil and peaceful by and large. :) But I'll admit I'm not sure how to address the problem of attracting people again.
 
To be honest, academic philosophy does not interest me that much (at least 50% of that is that, having never had that style of education, a lot of reading and really understanding what is being said in posts is tedious to me), but I remember there certainly used to be various people here who were interested in that.
 
I wanted to say hi and I really like there is a philosophy subforum.
I’m an armature philosopher and mystic and I most study the Greeks (plato, artistole, and the stoics). I’ve studied and been a lot of religions too. I have a bachelors in philosophy, so I’m not an academic and am more interested in living out ones philosophy than arguing finer points. I got interested in psychedelics after reading Aldous Huxley.

I deeply appreciate people’s openness especially with describing their experiences rather poetically. It’s defintely changed my views on key aspects of my worldview. It might seem overly dramatic but I feel indebited to the psychedelic community for sharing their insights. I respect your subjective experience as legitimate and on par with mystics through time and across traditions.

So I wanted to ask you all how I could help or if I should stay out. I’m not a psychedelic user, I do practice meditation and want to explore hypnosis but it’s not the same. I get that. Do you all care if your trips you saw the same thing Plato or Spinoza or Rumi says? Do you want to hear about my meditative experiences that might be simmilar? Or would you rather I bother another forum. What is the most valuable to me is the trip reports and I can read those without ever posting a word. Just let me know.
-MM
 
Hey, welcome MysticMonist. :) You absolutely should participate here if you want to, there are all sorts of posters in this forum, it's not about psychedelics (although I'm happy talking about them and using them), it's about whatever. If you have some ideas you can post threads, or else you can just reply to threads.

I see you mentioned the Trip Report forum. Obviously all the forums together are Bluelight, but this particular one is the Philosophy and Spirituality forum, so if you want to post a trip report that would be more appropriate. This forum is for discussing anything related to philosophy and/or spirituality.
 
JessFR said:
I'm gonna say something. And it'll probably be unpopular. But I tend to avoid p&s and since this thread is asking how it might be improved, I thought perhaps I should say why I avoid it.

P&S feels like the dumping ground where the stupid threads go. There are almost no actual real philosophical discussions, and I find most of the spiritual discussions to the extent they even are spiritual discussions involve the kinda subjects I think of as stupid. Because of this I avoid it. Which is a real shame really. There's a lot of real smart, sensitive people on Bluelight. There's lots of room for good, intelligent philosophical and spiritual discussions. But it doesn't happen here much that I can see.

Its called philosophy and spirituality. But really it's more about conspiracy theories, occultism, the supernatural and new age beliefs. Ghosts, aliens, conspiracies, palm reading, clairvoyance, etc. That's what I think of when I think of this subforum. and since I have a very low opinion of all those subjects, I have a low opinion of this subforum too. I certainly don't think of philosophy or spirituality.

I'm not sure how you'd go about fixing it or even if it can be fixed or that people really want it fixed.

And you know, I don't really have a problem with people believing that kinda stuff. Ok that's a lie, I do have a problem with it, but I've long accepted that I can't do anything about it so all I ask is that I not have to listen to it. But because of that, if there were genuine intelligent thoughtful philosophical or spiritual questions in this subforum. Things like questions about the nature of existence, the existence of objective morality, what is the nature of the soul? I wouldn't see them or contribute to them because I'd be avoiding this subforum because I'm more expecting the other stuff I mentioned. Maybe the subforum could be renamed and labels introduced or something. I dunno.

I know this might be very unpopular, but since the question was asked how to improve p&s. I figured I might as well explain the reasons I avoid it. But of course I might well be in the minority here. I haven't read the rest of this thread so I wouldn't know.

It's not just here though. I have similar sentiments towards the healthy living subforum. That it's less about healthy living and more about stupid diets and supplements and so forth.

Since I don't want to start a fight, generally I just avoid this kinda thing completely rather than say anything about it.
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This post inspired me to try and generate some of the types of philosophical conversations I am interested in having in P&S. I bumped two old threads and created two new ones. I am not sure what you regard as "actual real philosophical discussions", but the topics I bumped/created span across metaphysics, philosophy of mind, logic and ethics. Hopefully you can find something in there that interests you. :)
 
Just a tiny idea.

Recently (and I'm sure in times gone bye), the p&s board has had a lot of video link threads started... I'm certain they are all cool but could we just have a single thread to place them in.

It's not a huge heart ache to open a thread about something you might be interested in to find a 2 hour YouTube still image talk radio piece. It just seems a bit cluttered when there are 3 or 4 of these sitting on the top of the board. I've listened to and watched a few and now my YouTube feed is just hilarious.
 
Yourbaker said:
Just a tiny idea.

Recently (and I'm sure in times gone bye), the p&s board has had a lot of video link threads started... I'm certain they are all cool but could we just have a single thread to place them in.

It's not a huge heart ache to open a thread about something you might be interested in to find a 2 hour YouTube still image talk radio piece. It just seems a bit cluttered when there are 3 or 4 of these sitting on the top of the board. I've listened to and watched a few and now my YouTube feed is just hilarious.
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That's a good suggestion. It may also become the policy that if the OP doesn't offer a writeup providing a summary of the video and their opinion, we may just close the thread. Video links on their own are kind of non-starters for conversation.
 
^Agreed. We have a video thread in CE&P.

Sometimes people post videos outside of that thread that are embedded in articles or with a good write-up.

I don't watch many videos except music and I agree it doesn't stimulate conversation.

FTR, someone else had this brill idea in CE&P. (Just sharing across forums! :)
 
Couldn't reply to the new guideline post - great rule addition. I remember too many instances when a thread was opened with links and no personal reflection or point stated.
 
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