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Vegas Mandalay Bay mass shooting / Gun Control 2017 Thread

Fresco said:
Bro, you obviously havent been to Toronto lately, the bullets are flying, left right and centre (okay, so I'm exaggerating a little):
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Dude, your hellhole of Toronto reports 19 homicides so far this year, in a city of 2.7 million. My hometown of half a million had 38 by June. That's nearly a 20 fold higher murder rate. And I've never once had a situation where a gun would have helped, much less an "AK-47 clone", even being bused to school in the shitty part of town in a desegregation plan.

Last I heard, Vegas man bought 33 guns last year. People say a mental health screen wouldn't catch him, FBI profiles wouldn't catch him, background check, etc. Maybe a non-dealer buying that many weapons so quickly would?

I will never own a firearm, because I have a habit of getting blind drunk, and getting dramatically depressed. I'd almost certainly be dead by now, or I'd go shoot at the moon to "entertain" visitors, and wind up in prison or shot by neighbors.

But some people are responsible, and to them, I say go buy a gun if you want. Maybe not 33 in a year though. Maybe not if you have a history of violent confrontations.

You say you're anti-gun control. You haven't really answered, do you support it for felons? For untreated paranoid schizophrenics? People who just got a restraining order and a history of spousal abuse? Interesting that the very NRA you support was in favor of gun control when the Black Panthers appeared at the Sacramento Capitol Building. The debate is not about control or not, it's about where the line is drawn.

Because I'd like to feel safe enough to "take a stand for gun rights" from my hometown.
 
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My hometown has 530 murders so far this year. I still don't own a gun.
I'm good with gun ownership for responsible owners, though. My father was LEO, so I grew up around them and know how to shoot. I just don't feel a personal need for one. If I lived in a rural area I'd want one, though.
 
spacejunk said:
I've never really understood americans' attachment to the constitution.

do people ever concede that at a certain point it may hold the country back?
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For the most part, I like it.

I'll try to explain it, as an American. As a (tm) American, since I would qualify for the Sons of the American Revolution, if I so chose.

See, the constitution basically runs back to the English train of though that (to put it bluntly) the power is in the hands of the mob. It's not blood, it's not god, it's the people giving power. The US Constitution spells this out pretty plainly - here's the power that the collective masses grant to the government.

However, the 2nd amendment is a hot holy mess. "Right to bear arms"? WTF? Does that mean I can have nukes? Of course not, but explaining why is basically threading the camel through the eye of the needle.

ETA: Woah, hope that made sense. I may be a little drunk.
 
thanks, i appreciate your perspective.

it's hard to understand sometimes when most of the stuff i hear about the US constitution is related to guns.
 
US Constitution is pretty cool. Consider it a logical extension of Hobbes. The people give the state power, not the other way around.

We've created, as a nod to Hobbes, the Leviathan - e.g. the modern state. In theory, in America, the state's power is limited to the powers granted by the people.

In practice, it's a mess. But in theory, it's logically sound.
 
hey everyone the issue is american society and its love of fame

its glorifying news stories about these mass killings

15 mins

whether its spain and brainwashed youth claiming isis links, america and the highest death score in an american mass shooting or that pilot who flew the commercial pane into a mountain all these fuckers know they will get famous on mass media for a long time.

they do it for the fame

fame monster

its not so much about guns its about need to be known, need to be famous, need to be someone in a world of 7billion these people want to be remembered. they want to be bad legends and in a sense they are

iceland has guns but different culture drastically. different outcomes
 
I'm sure the genie is out of the bag on mass shootings. It's a concept now, in-style among the less-hinged.

But the US sets a lot of those trends, and they haven't had much non-domestic market penetration yet, over twenty years after Columbinue. I think of that right-wing Norwegian shooter being the only US-style "nut-with-gun" attack in a decade.

Since nearly everyone wants to be famous, I think gun availability has to be way up near the top at least.

Although I'd favor screening reality-TV contestants, or even prophylactic euthanasia after getting voted off their islands.
 
Now the news is trying to blame Valium just because he was prescribed it for awhile. I wondered how long before the war on drugs would intersect with this mess.
 
Scrofula said:
I'm sure the genie is out of the bag on mass shootings. It's a concept now, in-style among the less-hinged.

But the US sets a lot of those trends, and they haven't had much non-domestic market penetration yet, over twenty years after Columbinue. I think of that right-wing Norwegian shooter being the only US-style "nut-with-gun" attack in a decade.

Since nearly everyone wants to be famous, I think gun availability has to be way up near the top at least.

Although I'd favor screening reality-TV contestants, or even prophylactic euthanasia after getting voted off their islands.
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Not to mention with all the media coverage showing every detail on what this nut did, I don't think they realize they just put out one hell of a basic blueprint for future mass crowd shootings. Showing not only how easy it is but also that you don't need a background in jihad to pull it off.

I heard some lady on CNN say it could take 4-5 weeks to get his toxicology report back to see if he had diazepam in his system and at what concentration. I really hope he doesn't have any THC in his system because I can just see Jeff Sessions coming out and doubling down on marijuana not only being as dangerous on heroin but can also turn people into mass shooters. 8)
 
Scrofula said:
I'm sure the genie is out of the bag on mass shootings. It's a concept now, in-style among the less-hinged.

But the US sets a lot of those trends
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The US sets a lot of trends on what?? On the murder rate?

Switzerland for example has about 50% of household guns the US has, and yet they have virtually no mass-shootings like you guys have. Get a grip, bro. Its your culture that needs fixing.

Just as an add-on, Canada has a large household gun owning percentage, do you see us guys killing each other like you guys do??!!
 
I liked the post above this better, so i'll delete mine and go with:

Switzerland has the entire country perimeter wired with explosives. I'm not kidding. If the Fourth Reich or the Russians, or more like the IRS show up at their mountain passes, they blow em all up
 
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Switzerland has compulsory military service for males from age 19 to up to age 35.

As they are the last, best defense against Nazi-gold hunters, these fine men get to keep their rifle or service weapon. However, it's really difficult to get a carry permit.

So lots of guns, but not a lot of loaded guns being carried around, and those holes in the cheese don't make themselves.

Why Switzerland Is A Red-Herring In The Gun Control Debate

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy

Ten Lies Distort The Gun Control Debate
See Lie #1
 
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^ that last link is good.

"Gun advocates are passionate about civil liberties until those liberties become inconvenient."

indeed.

alasdair
 
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