12 step discussion thread Voice your opinions here!

[FLA]

Hey aihfl, if you're ever in Tampa give me a ring. We can grab coffee in Ybor city or something. I'll PM you my personal cell.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Interesting idea, TPD. I hadn't thought of such a thing...at least not since I did a 3-day silent Zen retreat when I turned 30 (a looooooong time ago). I'm going to check out Goenka.

Goenka isn't for the weak of heart, as it's a pretty rigorous traditional vipassana retreat, but the skills you learn are really quite something. And it's very, very different from Zazen or most Zen style retreats. Give it a look, if you have any questions you know where to find me

Given all your accomplishments of the last couple years (even if you don't necessarily see it like that, I do) you're in an ideal place to take advantage of what they offer. I'd NEVER recommend something like this for someone new in recovery as there are more accessible options, but I'd say you are in a good place to benefit from the rigor.

 

[FLA]

I did a 4 day retreat with Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche in Charlottesville in 2005. It's not easy to sit that many hours a day in meditation but sure was worth every penny I paid. Being with other people while meditating is a powerful experience. You live near LA TPD? Probably a lot more opportunities than here in Jesus land. Just so there is no misunderstanding I do believe that Jesus was an enlightened being.

 

[somnilicious]

Interesting perspective, Somni. I PM'd you my phone number - you are welcome to call me anytime, just text first so I'll know who it is and pick up the phone. As I continue to grow as a "clean" person, I started thinking yesterday about how damaging 12 step can be for the person walking in off the street on day one or even day zero. So many people are so full of shit, but (speaking only for myself) it takes some clean time to figure out what's bullshit and what isn't. And, (again, I'm speaking only for myself) it's easy for a newcomer to glom onto someone who's completely full of it but manages to spew impressive sounding platitudes.


Hmm...that IS something to consider. I'm starting to daydream about doing the expat thing again.

Thanks man... def. would like to hit you up and check out a meeting. Unfortunately it's going to be a little while. I am in a really bad situation right now. Having to start all over without a job and my car is barely running rt now. I have no gas so I wouldn't be able to meet you. This is really tough. Even my parents are broke. They have promised to get me back on my feet but they don't even have gas to run me to the nearest meetings. I can't believe how far I let this one go. I am so busted. I don't even really have any clothes.

This last relapse was def. a suicide mission. I always said if I wanted to use again it's because I wanted to die and sure enough I got to that place and decided to start slowly killing myself. Of course it didn't work... Never does. I'm still here and now I have to crawl out of this huge hole I dug for myself. Everything is so overwhelming right now. Oh well.. It will get better. Finally slept last night for the first time. I think I am on day 5. Trudging the road of happy destiny...lol

 

[herbavore]

Somni ((())). Sending you a big hug.

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Somni- I feel for you and hope that you have a safe place to be. What an important thing that is. The rest will come with time. If you are trying to get to a meeting, have you tried hooking up with someone on the local NA Hotline? Here is a link to the Orlando area NA web-page. I don't know how it works down there, but in both the areas I have lived and participated in NA in, if you call they will do there best to get you to a meeting. I hope this helps! Remember that while walking back in is hard, there is always someone there to welcome you. I truly believe in my heart of heart that NA is a positive place in many ways.

 

[somnilicious]

Thank you so much Herbavore and G.S.R.H

 

[FLA]

Somni, not trying to trivialize your situation. We're all rooting for you. It's like that "It's What You Do commercial". In our case it's collectively what we do. My disclaimer is it's what some of us do because that statement would be an insult the folks here that worked hard to rack up long stretches of clean time.

Is there anything I can do to help? I could Western Union you some money if you think it would help. I couldn't part with serious money but just sayin. Jeez, you're right up I-4 from me.

 

[somnilicious]

Somni, not trying to trivialize your situation. We're all rooting for you. It's like that "It's What You Do commercial". In our case it's collectively what we do. My disclaimer is it's what some of us do because that statement would be an insult the folks here that worked hard to rack up long stretches of clean time.

Is there anything I can do to help? I could Western Union you some money if you think it would help. I couldn't part with serious money but just sayin. Jeez, you're right up I-4 from me.

Damn... I'm speechless and thanks but I couldn't possibly accept any money. I'm really still in the detox phase so I don't really need any money anyways. I have everything I need a roof and food. I would feel very uncomfortable receiving a handout. Even having to accept my parents help, even though I will pay it back, makes me uncomfortable. Besides it would detract from the positive self worth I would derive by pulling myself out by my own bootstraps. 2.5 yrs ago I went to a halfway house without a dime in my pocket or food. Half my clothes consisted of women's pants that my mom had picked up from a thrift store...lol.. It was so embarrassing. I had to have a job in 2 weeks and pay back the first 2 weeks rent. Making everything work kept me so busy that I didn't have much time to sit around contemplating all my problems and it was a great feeling of accomplishment that catapulted me into my recovery. My best friend and I had a saying that become our motto and battle cry and was a great source of pride.... "Get it from the dirt up".... I can't express how good it felt to turn nothing into something. I hadn't even worked steady in like 5yrs before arriving. Time to do it again.. "Get it from the dirt up"

You guys have all been a greet support for me. I can't express how much it means with not being able to get out to a meeting to have you guys. Much love

 

[FLA]

Damn... I'm speechless and thanks but I couldn't possibly accept any money. I'm really still in the detox phase so I don't really need any money anyways. I have everything I need a roof and food. I would feel very uncomfortable receiving a handout. Even having to accept my parents help, even though I will pay it back, makes me uncomfortable. Besides it would detract from the positive self worth I would derive by pulling myself out by my own bootstraps. 2.5 yrs ago I went to a halfway house without a dime in my pocket or food. Half my clothes consisted of women's pants that my mom had picked up from a thrift store...lol.. It was so embarrassing. I had to have a job in 2 weeks and pay back the first 2 weeks rent. Making everything work kept me so busy that I didn't have much time to sit around contemplating all my problems and it was a great feeling of accomplishment that catapulted me into my recovery. My best friend and I had a saying that become our motto and battle cry and was a great source of pride.... "Get it from the dirt up".... I can't express how good it felt to turn nothing into something. I hadn't even worked steady in like 5yrs before arriving. Time to do it again.. "Get it from the dirt up"

You guys have all been a greet support for me. I can't express how much it means with not being able to get out to a meeting to have you guys. Much love

Okay, just wanted you to know I was thinking about your situation. Some of us have been where you are now.

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

Damn... I'm speechless and thanks but I couldn't possibly accept any money. I'm really still in the detox phase so I don't really need any money anyways. I have everything I need a roof and food. I would feel very uncomfortable receiving a handout. Even having to accept my parents help, even though I will pay it back, makes me uncomfortable. Besides it would detract from the positive self worth I would derive by pulling myself out by my own bootstraps. 2.5 yrs ago I went to a halfway house without a dime in my pocket or food. Half my clothes consisted of women's pants that my mom had picked up from a thrift store...lol.. It was so embarrassing. I had to have a job in 2 weeks and pay back the first 2 weeks rent. Making everything work kept me so busy that I didn't have much time to sit around contemplating all my problems and it was a great feeling of accomplishment that catapulted me into my recovery. My best friend and I had a saying that become our motto and battle cry and was a great source of pride.... "Get it from the dirt up".... I can't express how good it felt to turn nothing into something. I hadn't even worked steady in like 5yrs before arriving. Time to do it again.. "Get it from the dirt up"

You guys have all been a greet support for me. I can't express how much it means with not being able to get out to a meeting to have you guys. Much love

Hey man, I feel where you're coming from. I'm wondering, have you ever taken a critical look at your attitude towards asking for or accepting help? I've always found it difficult to ask anyone for anything, and that mentality has kept me from asking for help when I really do need it. I think many of us are sold the individualist, up-by-the-bootstraps philosophy at a young age, and come to fear looking weak by relying on someone else. I still bristle a bit when I accept a free meal or ride home because I always assume there is some ulterior motive to someone's generosity, but it's getting better. I apologize if all this is completely off-base, I just couldn't help but hear some of my own thought process in what you wrote.

 

[FLA]

Hey man, I feel where you're coming from. I'm wondering, have you ever taken a critical look at your attitude towards asking for or accepting help? I've always found it difficult to ask anyone for anything, and that mentality has kept me from asking for help when I really do need it. I think many of us are sold the individualist, up-by-the-bootstraps philosophy at a young age, and come to fear looking weak by relying on someone else. I still bristle a bit when I accept a free meal or ride home because I always assume there is some ulterior motive to someone's generosity, but it's getting better. I apologize if all this is completely off-base, I just couldn't help but hear some of my own thought process in what you wrote.

I think Grinders Kiefers has a valid point here. When I got my 3rd DUI, I lost my driver's license for 10 freaking years. I impulsively quit my stable, good paying job, moved back home with my mother 200 miles south at 31 because my pride couldn't bear the thought of having to ask other's for rides to and from work, trips to the supermarket etc. And I was embarrassed as hell, knew the gossip machine where I worked would be in high gear. After about 1 year I asked for my job back and got it. I still had 1 year to go before I could get my hardship reinstatement but I swallowed my pride and asked a Vietnam vet that worked at the base and lived a few doors down if I could catch rides to and from work and it sorted itself out. I still don't like asking people for help, but it's not as intense as it was.

 

[G.R.S.H.]

Let Others Help!

Damn... I'm speechless and thanks but I couldn't possibly accept any money. I'm really still in the detox phase so I don't really need any money anyways. I have everything I need a roof and food. I would feel very uncomfortable receiving a handout. Even having to accept my parents help, even though I will pay it back, makes me uncomfortable. Besides it would detract from the positive self worth I would derive by pulling myself out by my own bootstraps.

I know that many of the folks with serious time, and some with just a little, are still showing up to those meetings just for people like you. Have you ever heard "We keep what we've got by giving it away"? Just so that everyone understands this philosophy, this means that we keep our clean time by helping the new comer. This works in so many ways, the most obvious is that often after having been clean for long periods of time, we forget what it is like 'out there'. We forget the bad times and glorify the good times, and need the reminder of exactly where our use took us. We all have different bottoms, and often need the reminder of what ours was.

Learning to accept offered help is important, though I completely understand your response. I don't like asking for help either. But the program is all about it. Ask for a hand up, not a hand out, and you will find many hands reaching out to give it to you. Choose the hand you grab wisely (for instance we don't know you, so couldn't ask for something in return), but choose! You will find that not only do you need to ask, but others NEED to be able to help you. That is How It Works. Don't be ashamed, for as bad as your story seems to you, I can guarantee that at least half of just about any room in NA has worse. You are not 'worse' than anyone else. Let the people in your area help, after all, it helps them.

Find a good fellowship if your goal is to get clean, a good fellowship will help you! Give that hotline a call, ask for a ride at the very least. I got clean in a huge county, where you sometimes had to drive 30-50 miles for a good meeting, and I didn't have a car at the time. I can't tell you how many times I called and had a woman (I'm a woman) drive 30 miles to come and get me. Those women saved my life. Many of them became a strong part of my recovery. This is the first step of getting involved. Let others help you, so that they may help themselves. Later, you will pay thins back by helping another person that needs to start on that road to recovery, but does not have a car.

You will find your self worth, but first you have to live.

peace and strength- grsh

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think the most important lesson my grandmother taught me prior to her death was the importance of learning how to accept gifts skillfully. Now, unfortunately BL isn't the place for that...

Somni, not trying to trivialize your situation. We're all rooting for you. It's like that "It's What You Do commercial". In our case it's collectively what we do. My disclaimer is it's what some of us do because that statement would be an insult the folks here that worked hard to rack up long stretches of clean time.

Is there anything I can do to help? I could Western Union you some money if you think it would help. I couldn't part with serious money but just sayin. Jeez, you're right up I-4 from me.

Unfortunately (actually it is a very good policy) the user agreement (BLUA) we all agreed to upon activating our accounts here prohibits the use of BL to give or receive anything of value, regardless of the purpose. You won't be infracted or anything for this as your hearts in the right place, I'm making a note of this more for everyone. BL is NOT a place to offer gift or services of any kind to other users. Hence our prohibition of sourcing and solicitation, but it extends to this kinda of offer of financial support as well.

I did a 4 day retreat with Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche in Charlottesville in 2005. It's not easy to sit that many hours a day in meditation but sure was worth every penny I paid. Being with other people while meditating is a powerful experience. You live near LA TPD? Probably a lot more opportunities than here in Jesus land. Just so there is no misunderstanding I do believe that Jesus was an enlightened being.

Yup, SoCal. There are a lot of oppertunities to practice in the South these days, particularly in Nashville and around the West Virginia/Virginia area. Out here (and in the Northwest and Northeast) there are definitely more oppertunities to practice with American Buddhists though, and they generally a bit more accessible than traditional organizations like Zen temples and stuff like Goenka.

 

[FLA]

I think the most important lesson my grandmother taught me prior to her death was the importance of learning how to accept gifts skillfully. Now, unfortunately BL isn't the place for that...



Unfortunately (actually it is a very good policy) the user agreement (BLUA) we all agreed to upon activating our accounts here prohibits the use of BL to give or receive anything of value, regardless of the purpose. You won't be infracted or anything for this as your hearts in the right place, I'm making a note of this more for everyone. BL is NOT a place to offer gift or services of any kind to other users. Hence our prohibition of sourcing and solicitation, but it extends to this kinda of offer of financial support as well.



Yup, SoCal. There are a lot of oppertunities to practice in the South these days, particularly in Nashville and around the West Virginia/Virginia area. Out here (and in the Northwest and Northeast) there are definitely more oppertunities to practice with American Buddhists though, and they generally a bit more accessible than traditional organizations like Zen temples and stuff like Goenka.

@toothpastedog, duly noted! I can assure you it will never happen again. While I was writing it, I had a gut feeling it was out of bounds and should have not acted so impulsively. Thank you for not penalizing me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

No worries, I totally broke that rule before I became a mod. I understand it happens, plus your heart was in the right place, soooo carry on

 

[somnilicious]

Thank all of you so much. I know I need to reach out for help and will. I just couldn't accept donations from people on an anonymous site. I already had a feeling it wasn't appropriate. It probably wouldn't have been a good thing anyways because after having several great days today I have been having some minor cravings. Love you guys.

I will definitely be attending meeting soon. One way or another

 

[FLA]

Thank all of you so much. I know I need to reach out for help and will. I just couldn't accept donations from people on an anonymous site. I already had a feeling it wasn't appropriate. It probably wouldn't have been a good thing anyways because after having several great days today I have been having some minor cravings. Love you guys.

I will definitely be attending meeting soon. One way or another

I think we're conditioned in school, society in general and our parents to "Stand up on our own two feet" and then there's the whole american attitude of rugged individualism. I think it's part of our culture. I know this is no great revelation or anything, but when I actually think about it, it's surprising to me how brainwashed I really am in this regard. And though this is a little off topic, I bet most of us don't like being told what to do or what to think.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I too find aspects of American individualism rather disturbing. On the other hand, we also have our fair share of communitarian individualists who I quite fancy (many of their names begin with Michael, which I find quite amusing, but a lot of them work at places like Harvard, so less a thing of the lumpenproletariat). Fuck me, take it to P&S tpd 8)

I'm glad to hear you were able to find a little ease in your days despite your current bit of struggle somnilicious. It will come and go, over and over, lessening over time.

Keep up the great work on your self care thing (read: cultivating joy/doing stuff that makes you happy/fun shit that doesn't just revolve around getting inebriated). I really need to do more work on that myself right now.

Now not having any access to funds and trying to take care of one's self can be very tricky in our culture, but it just requires a little adaptation, creativity and imagination.

What do you like to do for fun? Outsides meetings and explicitly recovery related stuff?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

quit certain classes of drugs and keep using others?...and meetings

is it possible or practical to quit certain classes of drugs and keep using others?

Ive been curious about meetings to address my problem drinking, over-use of weed, and balancing act of trying to use gaba drugs and opioids as much as possible without becoming fully dependent again (i've been very deep into hard opiates but these days not dependent).

The thing that stops me is that i don't think i belong there if I know in my heart I will continue psychedelic, mdma and disso use. These are drugs i've been able to sit on and never had a problem with overdosing or overusing. I do not want to quit them. But i acknowledge that I could start abusing these drugs (especially dissos) if eliminated alcohol, pot, and pills from my life. Because i'm addicted to not being sober, not neccesarily to a drug of choice.

Im worried the people there will tell me to get lost until i decide i really want to stop ALL drugs. What am i supposed to say, "hi my name is lucid dreamer, i want to stop drinking but keep taking acid trips each month?"

so i just continue trying to navigate this lifestyle by myself and have no where to turn.