keeping
Bluelight Crew
^ its the subs that are making you sick - its a really common side effect for people just starting them, do what your Dr. recommended
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread v. 19
- Thread starter sekio
- Start date
sm0kestack
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2015
- Messages
- 356
Yes, suboxone/buprenorphine is quite a powerful medication to be using to come off of weak to moderate strength opiates like norco/oxycodone. For users that are coming off of weak opiates with low to moderate tolerances, even just 2mg of bupe can get them higher than the meds that they were coming off of originally even. Causing typical side effects that taking a bit too much of an opiate can cause ergo nausea/vomiting.
It doesnt surprise me that the sub caused you to vomit 6 or 7 hours later even, because buprenorphine has a very long halflife. Even 6 or 7 hours in bupe is still in full effect.
I would do precisely what your doctor said. Cut the 2mg strip into 1/4ths, and take .5mg at a time every 45mins-1hour, til you feel the withdrawal subside. At your level of addiction, it prolly wont even take 1mg to make you feel better, and the side effects like the nausea, vomiting, and headache wont be as bad.
It doesnt surprise me that the sub caused you to vomit 6 or 7 hours later even, because buprenorphine has a very long halflife. Even 6 or 7 hours in bupe is still in full effect.
I would do precisely what your doctor said. Cut the 2mg strip into 1/4ths, and take .5mg at a time every 45mins-1hour, til you feel the withdrawal subside. At your level of addiction, it prolly wont even take 1mg to make you feel better, and the side effects like the nausea, vomiting, and headache wont be as bad.
JosephTHeSequel
Bluelighter
coming off a 1.5-2 gram a day IV habit. Starting with 8mg but might go up to 12. Started going into wd this morning and took 8mg. That was about 2 hours ago. Looking to find the right dose and go with it, but i am also going to a doctor one day this week to get an official script and do this the right way.
StevenUniverse
Greenlighter
Hello- I have a question/observation.
(I'm totally new here, as in I finally created an account as to be able to ask questions and comment, so I don't know if just tossing this out on this particular thread is cool, but I still can't create new threads)
ABOUT DOSAGE AND SUB'S HALF LIFE:
It seems to me, that if the half-life on suboxone is 36 HOURS, then if you're taking a given dose (maintenance) every 24 hours, say, in the morning
(let's say 8mg to keep things easy), that 24 hours later on day 2, when you take another 8 mg dose you will STILL have approx 5.3mg in your system,
(as it would take 36 hours to metabolize 8mg down to 4mg) so by adding 8, you'd now have 13.3mg in your system.
(Remembering that the half life is 36 hours, but you're dosing every 24 hours!)
NEXT DAY:
That 13.3mg has metabolized down to 8.86mg ( of the 13.3-as it has only been 24 hours, NOT 36!),
so now you take your daily 8mg dose and you will now have 16.86mg (give or take) in your system.
NEXT DAY:
The 16.86mg has only "half lifed" down to 11.24mg in 24 hours, and so you take your usual 8mg dose, for what is now 19.24mg!
That now only half-lifes down to 12.82mg over 24 hours.
NEXT DAY:
That 12.82 and 8mg more... 20.82mg!
Continuing the math day by day the pattern seems to kind of top out at about 24mg total per day, then there seem to be diminishing returns(???)
I suck at math- so this may be wrong.
So if you're taking 8mg every day, you're REALLY stacking up about 24mg per day.
Is this pretty much right? or is my math wrong?
Anyone with better information or better math skills- please reply.
The point being, that you're getting in deeper and deeper by dosing every 24 hours, because you're compounding the dosage still in your system with the daily dose.
No wonder it's really difficult to get off the stuff!
On a separate matter, that of insufflating suboxone tablets:
It seems a silly route of ingestion, BUT the drug IS DESIGNED to be absorbed via mucous membranes, so it seems that in the nose or under the tongue shouldn't make much difference (Although I would imagine doing it as intended would be your best bet since the nose is generally full of snot (pardon) and it seems a lot of the drug wouldn't make proper contact inside the nasal cavity and you'd end up having to swallow what drips down the throat anyway- and the medication is not intended to be swallowed. Just a thought.
(I'm totally new here, as in I finally created an account as to be able to ask questions and comment, so I don't know if just tossing this out on this particular thread is cool, but I still can't create new threads)
ABOUT DOSAGE AND SUB'S HALF LIFE:
It seems to me, that if the half-life on suboxone is 36 HOURS, then if you're taking a given dose (maintenance) every 24 hours, say, in the morning
(let's say 8mg to keep things easy), that 24 hours later on day 2, when you take another 8 mg dose you will STILL have approx 5.3mg in your system,
(as it would take 36 hours to metabolize 8mg down to 4mg) so by adding 8, you'd now have 13.3mg in your system.
(Remembering that the half life is 36 hours, but you're dosing every 24 hours!)
NEXT DAY:
That 13.3mg has metabolized down to 8.86mg ( of the 13.3-as it has only been 24 hours, NOT 36!),
so now you take your daily 8mg dose and you will now have 16.86mg (give or take) in your system.
NEXT DAY:
The 16.86mg has only "half lifed" down to 11.24mg in 24 hours, and so you take your usual 8mg dose, for what is now 19.24mg!
That now only half-lifes down to 12.82mg over 24 hours.
NEXT DAY:
That 12.82 and 8mg more... 20.82mg!
Continuing the math day by day the pattern seems to kind of top out at about 24mg total per day, then there seem to be diminishing returns(???)
I suck at math- so this may be wrong.
So if you're taking 8mg every day, you're REALLY stacking up about 24mg per day.
Is this pretty much right? or is my math wrong?
Anyone with better information or better math skills- please reply.
The point being, that you're getting in deeper and deeper by dosing every 24 hours, because you're compounding the dosage still in your system with the daily dose.
No wonder it's really difficult to get off the stuff!
On a separate matter, that of insufflating suboxone tablets:
It seems a silly route of ingestion, BUT the drug IS DESIGNED to be absorbed via mucous membranes, so it seems that in the nose or under the tongue shouldn't make much difference (Although I would imagine doing it as intended would be your best bet since the nose is generally full of snot (pardon) and it seems a lot of the drug wouldn't make proper contact inside the nasal cavity and you'd end up having to swallow what drips down the throat anyway- and the medication is not intended to be swallowed. Just a thought.
Angelia2590
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2017
- Messages
- 1
So, I have injected the Suboxone strips, the rectangular orange ones. Usually I just start with a quarter. You have to break it up into little pieces and let it soak for about 10-15 mins. Then poke it with the plunger to mix it. The rectangular strips usually don't clog the needle. I just tried injecting the new BUNAVAIL formulation of Suboxone. They are square and I did a quarter of a 4mg, which is basically equivalent to a 8mg rectangular strip. The issue I had with this new BUNAVAIL formulation is that I had to use pretty much water (about 60-70cc of water). And, they are much thicker when dissolved in the water, and they clog the needle. Very hard to suck up, had to use a couple cottons and couldn't suck up all the liquid like I usually can with the rectangular orange strips. It was an annoying process, but they work just about the same as the rectangular strips. All in all its probably more efficient and less of a process to just put them on the inside of the cheek as directed, but just to put this out there cuz I didn't find this exact description/info of it, I decided to post this info. Hope it comes in use for someone else.
AnythingEverything
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2014
- Messages
- 540
Hello- I have a question/observation.
(I'm totally new here, as in I finally created an account as to be able to ask questions and comment, so I don't know if just tossing this out on this particular thread is cool, but I still can't create new threads)
ABOUT DOSAGE AND SUB'S HALF LIFE:
It seems to me, that if the half-life on suboxone is 36 HOURS, then if you're taking a given dose (maintenance) every 24 hours, say, in the morning
(let's say 8mg to keep things easy), that 24 hours later on day 2, when you take another 8 mg dose you will STILL have approx 5.3mg in your system,
(as it would take 36 hours to metabolize 8mg down to 4mg) so by adding 8, you'd now have 13.3mg in your system.
(Remembering that the half life is 36 hours, but you're dosing every 24 hours!)
NEXT DAY:
That 13.3mg has metabolized down to 8.86mg ( of the 13.3-as it has only been 24 hours, NOT 36!),
so now you take your daily 8mg dose and you will now have 16.86mg (give or take) in your system.
NEXT DAY:
The 16.86mg has only "half lifed" down to 11.24mg in 24 hours, and so you take your usual 8mg dose, for what is now 19.24mg!
That now only half-lifes down to 12.82mg over 24 hours.
NEXT DAY:
That 12.82 and 8mg more... 20.82mg!
Continuing the math day by day the pattern seems to kind of top out at about 24mg total per day, then there seem to be diminishing returns(???)
I suck at math- so this may be wrong.
So if you're taking 8mg every day, you're REALLY stacking up about 24mg per day.
Is this pretty much right? or is my math wrong?
Anyone with better information or better math skills- please reply.
The point being, that you're getting in deeper and deeper by dosing every 24 hours, because you're compounding the dosage still in your system with the daily dose.
No wonder it's really difficult to get off the stuff!
On a separate matter, that of insufflating suboxone tablets:
It seems a silly route of ingestion, BUT the drug IS DESIGNED to be absorbed via mucous membranes, so it seems that in the nose or under the tongue shouldn't make much difference (Although I would imagine doing it as intended would be your best bet since the nose is generally full of snot (pardon) and it seems a lot of the drug wouldn't make proper contact inside the nasal cavity and you'd end up having to swallow what drips down the throat anyway- and the medication is not intended to be swallowed. Just a thought.
Re the compounding, interesting. I'm on a stupidly high dose (32mg/day) so going on what you're saying I've constantly got way more than the highest theoretical ceiling dose on board, and WAYYYYY more if the 4mg ceiling is in fact, correct.
No wonder I feel like this stuff is stealing my soul, my energy, my personality. Better than being in active addiction but definitely going to work with this new dr to get it right down as I'm not ready to come off.
reasonfreak
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2017
- Messages
- 11
New User Needs Help ASAP
I need help figuring out a induction / taper schedule. I have been using black tar heroin for 1 year at 2 grams a day. I was able to buy seven, 8 milligram subs off the street and this is all I will have access to. Advice on how to do this would be much appreciated. I have tried to kick 5 times this past year and have failed every time. PLEASE HELP
I need help figuring out a induction / taper schedule. I have been using black tar heroin for 1 year at 2 grams a day. I was able to buy seven, 8 milligram subs off the street and this is all I will have access to. Advice on how to do this would be much appreciated. I have tried to kick 5 times this past year and have failed every time. PLEASE HELP
Runtoparadise
Bluelighter
^The only msg I have to impart at this stage is, as you likely know, give it plenty of time between using, & starting subs.
As in, at least 36 hrs. Then start by cutting the 8mg strips into four. When you're feeling really awful, take 2mg at a time, I think it's recommended about every 90 mins to re-dose until you're comfortable, but with a limited supply of subs ur gonna want to keep it as low as possible.
Hope this helps as a starting point. Others will post in the meantime.
Rtp
As in, at least 36 hrs. Then start by cutting the 8mg strips into four. When you're feeling really awful, take 2mg at a time, I think it's recommended about every 90 mins to re-dose until you're comfortable, but with a limited supply of subs ur gonna want to keep it as low as possible.
Hope this helps as a starting point. Others will post in the meantime.
Rtp
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I've been on Suboxone for about 3 years, taking 5 x 2mg pills sublingually over the course of the day. Prior to starting on Suboxone I had a Tramadol+Clonazepam habit. At the end of each month's two week binge, I could easily take 16-20 x 50mg of Tramadol over the course of a day, with 2-4mg of clonazepam thrown in at the end of the day along with some weed and cigarettes for a full-on nod. So ..... back to today. A few weeks ago either my provider or the pharmacy messed up and I got straight bupenorphine, no Naloxone. I figured that since I take the bupe+naloxone every day, I should be able to handle the same doses of straight bupe. The first few days I felt great. After that I started taking more and more. I lost count of how many I was taking at the end. Now that I read how strong straight bupe is, I find myself wondering how the heck I was able to take so much? I was also taking Gabapentin, 4 x 600mg in the evening. Was that why I was able to tolerate so much bupe? Or maybe I've misunderstood the relationship of bupe and naloxone?
@yuckarina
The additional naloxone does absolutely nothing to effect the buprenorphine strength. You should be able to take exactly the same amount of subutex as you do suboxone. There is ALMOST no difference between the two except some food coloring and artificial flavors. They DO the same in your body even.Bump IS strong, but there is also a 'ceiling dose'.
This means essentially that you will only 'feel it' up to a certain point. Thats why people say its a waste of pill or strips to take a shit ton. It doesnt feel any different once you've maxed out. Someone else verify/clarify this for me. Hehe.
The additional naloxone does absolutely nothing to effect the buprenorphine strength. You should be able to take exactly the same amount of subutex as you do suboxone. There is ALMOST no difference between the two except some food coloring and artificial flavors. They DO the same in your body even.Bump IS strong, but there is also a 'ceiling dose'.
This means essentially that you will only 'feel it' up to a certain point. Thats why people say its a waste of pill or strips to take a shit ton. It doesnt feel any different once you've maxed out. Someone else verify/clarify this for me. Hehe.
I'm coming off a 5 year sub addiction ( I call it an addiction) where I started out on 16mg(!) a day.
I was eventually down to 2mg a day for 6 months, I took 1mg for a week,now I'm on Day 5 clean.
I feel horrible. I have kratom but it has very little effect (Maeng da 8-10g, should be decent quality) and I'm constantly hot/cold, bones fucking ache etc.
Tramadol helps a bit but it's just too disgusting a drug. The SSRI thing has to be hard when you stop taking them and the seizure risks, it's a dirty opiate.
So yeah, I had really prepared for a taper off opioids but I still feel depressed.
Am I really in for 2 months of this?
I can't believe I went on suboxone maintenance while knowing better in the first place.
ok, I needed to vent a bit.
Thanks for reading.
I was eventually down to 2mg a day for 6 months, I took 1mg for a week,now I'm on Day 5 clean.
I feel horrible. I have kratom but it has very little effect (Maeng da 8-10g, should be decent quality) and I'm constantly hot/cold, bones fucking ache etc.
Tramadol helps a bit but it's just too disgusting a drug. The SSRI thing has to be hard when you stop taking them and the seizure risks, it's a dirty opiate.
So yeah, I had really prepared for a taper off opioids but I still feel depressed.
Am I really in for 2 months of this?
I can't believe I went on suboxone maintenance while knowing better in the first place.
ok, I needed to vent a bit.
Thanks for reading.
I believe 16mg is the ceiling dose. I've had two suboxone doctors and both made that specification.
And thedawn... 2mg Suboxone is still a decent amount. I was on 2mg for months. At the recommendation of my doctor, I cut down .5 a month, and then .25 the last month. Each taper at that level was slightly noticeable, but after the .25 I had the most minimal WD symptoms. The longer the taper, the better.. especially cutting down such small increments.
Twinklestar7372
Greenlighter
- Joined
- May 27, 2017
- Messages
- 1
My personal experience with suboxone is good so far. I have been on prescribed Fentanyl Patch 25 much/ 48 hrs. I have dropped to this dose over the last year. (I also left the old patch on). I have been on opiates for 12 years full time prescribed. At my highest prescription I was using 180mg of Oxycodone and 180 mg of morphine per day. I have had several adjustments on medicine including extended release doses. 5 years ago I was put on 50 mug of Fanta to with 3-10 mg Oxys per day for breakthrough. I started leaving my old patches on to increase my daily dose. This last year I tapered Down to 25 mcg oatches for 48 hours.( still leaving my old patches on.) o went to a doctor that prescribes Suboxone. Lucky for me my insurance pays for Suboxone. He gave me the 8/2 mg strips. I take 1/2 a drip twice a day. I was checking every forum to see how long I needed to wait to start the suboxone. The replies are all very different. Some say 16 hours, most day 24. Others say 48-36-72 hours. Yikes! How do I keep out of precipitated withdrawals! I already have withdrawals every other day on my patch!... so I removed my patch last night around 5 pm. (I already have my suboxone script at home. ) so I started feeling withdrawal symptoms coming on around 11 pm. They didn't get super intense. I checked the cows scale as many articles suggested but only scored mild.. had the stretching of limbs symptom, anxiety.. so I took a half of a strip which was the suggested dose. I took it at 12 noon today. That's only 19-20 hours. I was in withdrawals, but not the worst I have ever had. I was scared of the precipitated withdrawals I heard about. 10-15 minutes after I took it, I felt a hot sensation wash over me. Thought I would get those withdrawals, but I took s quick bird bath, laid down for an hour and. Is I feel pretty good. Took my withdrawals away. I still have done muscle pain, but not the kind that come from withdrawals. Suboxone stopped the withdrawals right away. No headaches or sick feeling. Not high, but even my regular dose meds haven't made me high for years... so if your guessing on when it's ok to take suboxone after opiates, and fentanyl seems to be the highest strength, then I day shoot for 24 hours. If you are not in withdrawals at 24, then wait until you are.. if you are in withdrawals before 24 hours rfen just wait as long as you can. You will now when it's too bad to wait anymore. You know your body... you can always take half the fuse prescribed and see how it reacts if your are afraid of precipitated withdrawals. Trust me, it will stop the withdrawals within a half hour. I hVe not gotten the precipices withdrawals so far. Hope this helps someone. Good luck to you!
ShroomySatori
Bluelighter
I am taking my first suboxone tomorrow, to ward off dope sickness. I haven't really used today, I've been sick all day. I took 20mg oxy twice... once at 8am and once at 4pm. My tolerance is high enough that I didn't feel it, but kept me out of severe withdrawal just moderate.
So I am knocking myself out after 8 hours without using with multiple sedatives. Hopefully waking up around the 20 hour mark, and being able to dose. I am going to wait 16 to 20 hours because I've been sick as fuck all day anyway. my doses have been very low, nowhere near enough to get me high. I'd say 10% of what I'd need for a high. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I'm already very sick and I am going to hold off as long as I can... until I start puking and stuff. Noon tomorrow. I really hope it helps.
So I am knocking myself out after 8 hours without using with multiple sedatives. Hopefully waking up around the 20 hour mark, and being able to dose. I am going to wait 16 to 20 hours because I've been sick as fuck all day anyway. my doses have been very low, nowhere near enough to get me high. I'd say 10% of what I'd need for a high. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I'm already very sick and I am going to hold off as long as I can... until I start puking and stuff. Noon tomorrow. I really hope it helps.
ShroomySatori
Bluelighter
Thanks! I waited 21 hours. It was awful, but I am used to being sick a lot because I've run myself broke.
I have mixed feeling about the effects of this drug. It got rid of my back pain, and the physical withdrawals, but it has zero antidepressant effect which I was really hoping for. I am still crying my eyes out... it is like it left all the emotional pain in my face without the distraction of physical pain, which is comforting in a way.
I'm still going to shoot up in a couple days and save my other sub for when I get sick again and have no heroin around. I'm happy that it worked, like I was really sick and now I'm not, but all the problems are still very much apparent. That is what I really need relief from and it seems that suboxone doesn't have that effect. I should have known, I guess I was expecting to feel better emotionally too.
I have mixed feeling about the effects of this drug. It got rid of my back pain, and the physical withdrawals, but it has zero antidepressant effect which I was really hoping for. I am still crying my eyes out... it is like it left all the emotional pain in my face without the distraction of physical pain, which is comforting in a way.
I'm still going to shoot up in a couple days and save my other sub for when I get sick again and have no heroin around. I'm happy that it worked, like I was really sick and now I'm not, but all the problems are still very much apparent. That is what I really need relief from and it seems that suboxone doesn't have that effect. I should have known, I guess I was expecting to feel better emotionally too.
ShroomySatori
Bluelighter
The thing is it's everything to me. The only antidepressant that ever worked. If I don't have it, I just stare at a wall crying until I get more. When I have it I focus on my career (getting it going again, so I will always have my fix), I practice yoga for hours each day, I try to find a new girl, I see family and friends and particularly my little bro... we are blood brothers, I go out whereas without heroin I barely leave my bed let alone my place, I pick up my guitar and record stuff as opposed to never taking it out of its case, I also have extreme chronic pain in my spine that I feel just the same as before I got on H all those years ago (and the original reason... I couldn't even walk at the time for more than a minute or two without having to lay down again), I also cook really healthy vegetarian food, keep super healthy like with all sorts of health supplements and I am a tea connoisseur.
Without heroin, I don't give a fuck. I never have, and I don't think I ever will. Without heroin, I am nothing. I am a worthless fuckin animal. I just fail to see the point of life and I can't work hard at anything, I'm useless as shit.
That makes it tough to quit, you see. Even after many years of daily use and all the money and the withdrawal hell it induces these days when I am in between career jobs and can't afford it, I still can't deny that the only time in my whole entire life that I've ever been functional is when I've had heroin. The suboxone will not help me stop heroin because it isn't addressing the emotional problems it's throwing them in my face... I would need therapy too. Heroin is my everything and I have devoted my life to it, for the sake that it enables me to live a normal life in all other respects when otherwise, I just can't.
I fail to see it as a bad thing when it's the only thing that has ever made me happy and functional. I've gotten straight A's in a university degree on H, held great jobs, had a great life. Without it everything really does fall apart. It even makes me lucky, and I've even experienced telepathy on it... it just has such a positive effect on me when I'm actively using. I wasn't right to begin with so when I quit now (I quit for 3 months last years... tapered and then freaked out in post-acute) like just FUCK IT i want to be normal and I don't give a fuck if it kills me 5 years down the road. I'd rather live 5 more years of happiness than live a lifetime of fucking misery and that's what the 15 years prior to my heroin use was like. At least I am happy now sometimes. I tried it at 23 and I am 29 now. I love it with all my heart. I was using the suboxone because I can't get my beloved heroin until Thursday and I'm trying to hold out and it sucks, I'm accomplishing nothing at all and just suffering.
Just editing this to say the bupe worked way better when I sniffed 2mg. When I took 8mg sublingually, it was at 21 hours so maybe that's why. But a wd symptom I get is excessive saliva (weird I know) so it made it really tough to take the drug sublingually. I ended up sniffing it and feel great. Time for bed, my opinion on this med has changed, but I'm going to continue using H for the meantime. I'd hate to use this daily.
Without heroin, I don't give a fuck. I never have, and I don't think I ever will. Without heroin, I am nothing. I am a worthless fuckin animal. I just fail to see the point of life and I can't work hard at anything, I'm useless as shit.
That makes it tough to quit, you see. Even after many years of daily use and all the money and the withdrawal hell it induces these days when I am in between career jobs and can't afford it, I still can't deny that the only time in my whole entire life that I've ever been functional is when I've had heroin. The suboxone will not help me stop heroin because it isn't addressing the emotional problems it's throwing them in my face... I would need therapy too. Heroin is my everything and I have devoted my life to it, for the sake that it enables me to live a normal life in all other respects when otherwise, I just can't.
I fail to see it as a bad thing when it's the only thing that has ever made me happy and functional. I've gotten straight A's in a university degree on H, held great jobs, had a great life. Without it everything really does fall apart. It even makes me lucky, and I've even experienced telepathy on it... it just has such a positive effect on me when I'm actively using. I wasn't right to begin with so when I quit now (I quit for 3 months last years... tapered and then freaked out in post-acute) like just FUCK IT i want to be normal and I don't give a fuck if it kills me 5 years down the road. I'd rather live 5 more years of happiness than live a lifetime of fucking misery and that's what the 15 years prior to my heroin use was like. At least I am happy now sometimes. I tried it at 23 and I am 29 now. I love it with all my heart. I was using the suboxone because I can't get my beloved heroin until Thursday and I'm trying to hold out and it sucks, I'm accomplishing nothing at all and just suffering.
Just editing this to say the bupe worked way better when I sniffed 2mg. When I took 8mg sublingually, it was at 21 hours so maybe that's why. But a wd symptom I get is excessive saliva (weird I know) so it made it really tough to take the drug sublingually. I ended up sniffing it and feel great. Time for bed, my opinion on this med has changed, but I'm going to continue using H for the meantime. I'd hate to use this daily.
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Runtoparadise
Bluelighter
Mate, I lost ur email & think we both took some time out of BL.
Sorry things are so shit for you atm. I get what what it is to be a 'functional user', & live a reasonably enjoyable life while not nodding ur life away.
Subs are easily come across, but not euphoric, especially if ur not on a f/T script.
Understand not wanting to be tarred with the same brush as going on a methadone program. That way it's on ur med file for life, ha, have the idea nothing's on ur med file Shroomy ?
Miss our chats,
Rtp xx
Sorry things are so shit for you atm. I get what what it is to be a 'functional user', & live a reasonably enjoyable life while not nodding ur life away.
Subs are easily come across, but not euphoric, especially if ur not on a f/T script.
Understand not wanting to be tarred with the same brush as going on a methadone program. That way it's on ur med file for life, ha, have the idea nothing's on ur med file Shroomy ?
Miss our chats,
Rtp xx