Opioids Need help for "best" way to stop Methadone..please

[natalie71]

Hi everyone!
This is my 1st time asking a question on here. I'd really appreciate all of your knowledge & feedback!
Long story as short as possible: approx 4 & a half yrs ago, a dim PM doc started me on methadone for my migraines, I had an awful allergic reaction to the usual migraine meds-the "tripans": Imitrex, Maxalt etc. so I have had a miserable time trying to control my headaches with other drugs...

Anyhow, my GP treated me with neurontin & Norco for a cpl yrs., and then they stopped working. So I was referred to a PM doc who gave me 60 mgs methadone a day & 90 mgs Roxicodone a day, he also kept the neurontin dose of 300 mgs a day.

Mid 2014, he retired & I went to a new PM doc, who I've seen since..
Now I take 20 mgs methadone a day, 45 mgs Roxicodone & 100 mgs Topamax.

I have had a miserable time with the methadone to say the least...I know that now it is a low dose compared to others, but in four & a half years, my body has become so messed up bc of it..I have gained 35 lbs. & I've always had to try to gain weight before, plus it has constipated me so badly & a list of other crappy side effects...
I just want off of it, once & for all!! But even if I skip a 10mg dose, I start to yawn, ache, and get that lovely jumpy crawly feeling..

So with the input of a friend whose been there, I devised a "plan" to stop the methadone w/out much pain..

Please let me know what you all think:
I was able to gather 5 Subutex pills, 2 Suboxone strips & 2 Zubsolv pills.
I dont want/need to do any Sub maintenance, i just got enough to get thru the w/d's..
I cant afford to go to a doc to do it, so bc I've read that its difficult to go from methadone to any of the stuff I have bc of methadone's miserable long half life, I figured I'd do this:

Stop the methadone on a Monday, then take just the roxicodone for at least five days, then stop those & wait for about 8-12 hours when i am feeling shitty & start the Subutex.
This is where i get stuck..how long should i take the subutex for? Or should i start w/the suboxone strips first?
And since i have 9 of all those total, should i take them all? Or just start super slow and if i am over the w/d's in say 3-4 days, then i figure i can stop & probably still feel a bit lousy, but my HOPE is that i will be able to come thru the worst part & going from the long-acting methadone to the short-acting roxies should make it easier for me...again i am HOPING!!

THANK YOU SO MUCH for reading & please ANY input & suggestions are VERY welcome!!
take care
Nat

 

[Ignio]

I have to get this clarified.

You "only" want to stop taking methadone? That is, you wish to continue with your 90 mg of Roxicodone each day after you have dropped the methadone? Or do you wish to stop taking both?

 

[crzydiamond]

Ok. First off, you don't want to just "stop" the methadone. With its super long half lives, you won't even feel the worst of the wd for the first few days. If you are trying to switch from methadone to roxy, you're going to have to take the roxy for at least 2-3 weeks until the methadone is out of your body. At that point your dependence is on the short term opioid--the roxy. You can then detox those, or not


However---You asked for the "best" way of detoxing methadone. The best way is to slowly taper. So if you are on 20 mg, you want to decrease approximately 10% weekly, so say drop 2 mg per week til you get to 10 mg. Then drop 1 mg at a time. Now, this is for someone on methadone who wants off. Not sure what your goals are here regarding the roxy.

But yeah, if you just skip a dose you're not going to feel good. And keep in mind that isn't the worst of the wd....it takes a few days to get to that.


What do you want to do? Be off everything? Be off methadone and on roxy?

 

[Keif' Richards]

Go slow and low with your taper if possible. Don't put yourself through any unneeded misery. We all know how logical our mental approach is to Opioid withdrawal, until we're in it of course, the devil fool's with the best made plans...

I would wait at least 72 hours before dosing any prep of Buprenorphine, by any route, otherwise you're flirting with "precipitated withdrawal". Note that whether or not your Buprenorphine is paired with an antagonist is pretty much irrelevant (it will make you sick either way). Methadone withdrawal, in a nutshell, is so terrible due to its protracted nature. ~2 weeks of acute withdrawal - vomit, nausea, diarrhea, insomnia - followed by potentially months of apathy, depression and anxiety. I don't mean to scare you, OP, but you need to prepare for the long-haul, otherwise, you risk immediate relapse onto high doses of short-acting Opioids; your Oxycodone or Heroin for instance.

Gabapentinoids - Pregabalin (Lyrica), Gabapentin (Neurontin) and Phenibut (OTC) for instance, are wonderful Opioid withdrawal aids when used sparingly and appropriately i.e. without racking up massive acute tolerance, as is the major pitfall with this class of drugs/substances. My advice would be, if you're taking your Gabapentin as prescribed, to either cut back on your daily dose, or stop taking it completely. This is dependent upon your individual tolerance for the withdrawal (for Gabapentin). This class is great because it lacks cross-tolerance with Opioids, meaning you can use high doses without necessarily setting yourself up for a reset on your Methadone withdrawal.

You will no doubt encounter some conflicting answers regarding the appropriate dose of Gabapentin. I can tell you that the negative side-effects (severe, non-epileptic convulsions) come into play for myself around the 4,000mg/4g mark. Titrate your dose to whatever makes you comfortable.

If you're using the Oxycodone solely for the purpose of cushioning your fall from the Methadone, I would advise against it. Everyone is different of course, some swear Methadone is the most painful withdrawal there is, others swear short-acting Opioids are worse, but the fact is that any use of Opioids during the withdrawal phase is just going to postpone the inevitable. Remember, our willpower is at its height when we are properly medicated. You could easily have a bad day and gobble down all of your Oxycodone early on in the race, so to speak.

1. Gabapentinoids are your friend. Pregabalin and Gabapentin will bring relief from a lot of the "peskier" symptoms of withdrawal. Akathisia, RLS, Skin-Crawling. Take low doses, as tolerated and try to lower your tolerance to such drugs before initializing your Methadone taper/detox.
2. Obtain some Clonidine. It's not a magic bullet, but when used as part of a typical Opioid withdrawal kit, it can be the difference between sleep and long-nights of hot/cold insomnia.
3. Benzodiazepines. These are a no brainer. The obvious: beware mixing of CNS depressants due to the added potential for lethal respiratory depression. In the same vain, Ethanol/alcoholic beverages should be avoided. They often provide brief respite from withdrawal symptoms, followed by a crushingly intense hangover-type syndrome, which, doesn't pair too nicely with Opioid withdrawal.
4. If using Antihistamines like Diphenhydramine (Benadryl, other names), Promethazine (Phenergan, other names), Hydroxyzine (Vistaril, Atarax, other names) or Doxylamine (Unisom, other names), beware of the potential they have to exacerbate RLS/Akathisia. For myself, antihistamines are an absolute no-go for this reason while in withdrawal.
5. Cannabis. For your appetite and to aid in sleep and general anxiolysis. This is another point of contention. For some people, including the late William Seward Burroughs, cannabis is contraindicated due to the increased risk of paranoia/anxiogenesis; colloquially "the fear".

I hope this little blurb helps. Methadone withdrawal is no joke, but it doesn't have to be a cold-turkey nightmare. Also, some clarification regarding what your long-term plans are regarding Opioids would help us to better advise you. Planning to stay on Opioids? Switching from Methadone to Oxycodone? As much detail as possible please.

 

[BigG]

I found the acute stage of methadone withdrawal to be nowhere near as bad as morphine or fentanyl but the months and months of extreme anxiety, lethargy and depression are just really hard to get through...


At least with other opioids your are sick as a dog then it slowly improves....

Unfortunately not so with methadone....

 

[thelung]

methadone is notorious for its withdrawals , definitely taper down slowly down to 0mg. i'd try to get some benzos for when you are in full blown w/d...and, if you are gonna take suboxone be sure not to take it too soon! you dont want to end up in precip. withdrawal! there are tons of threads about methadone on BL so do some research before you start your taper. good luck my friend and keep us posted

 

[natalie71]

Thanks so much for the info...i want to be off everything.
Actually when I was on the 90mg of roxys a day, it helped my migraines & in all honesty felt darn good too!!
BUT now with the "rules" the FDA & DEA are "suggesting" are scaring the crap out of every doctor I know & thats why my PM doc suddenly dropped me in one visit from 90 mg to 45 mg of roxys a day after 4.5 yrs NOT bc of me, but he made up some dumb excuse..so when i got home, i googled "pain pill issues, doctors, March 2016, and there it was plain as day that the FDA & DEA had "made suggestions" to doctors re: opiate pain meds to decrease such meds to the lowest dose a patient can take, or eliminate such drugs altogether bc of the recent severe problems associated with opiate pain medicines & deaths related to them"
So once again, the WONDERFUL F-ING DEA is continuing its "war on drugs" and creating a whole new generation of heroin addicts.
Sorry for my ramble, but long & short, that is the reason i want off the roxys-its going to get impossible to get them.
Thanks for your post & for reading ��

 

[natalie71]

Thx, i have xanax & kolonpin, so i hope they'll help my crummy journey!!
Thx again, and i will def be posting as I'm going thru to help others & get info!!

 

[natalie71]

Well I'm officially in hell..don't know what i did/am doing wrong..
i posted in the methadone forum for help hopefully i'll feel slightly human SOON!!

I usually never say never...but NEVER EVER again am I touching methadone!! It is the devil!!! And now that its been 7 days off, i can feel my knee cracking/hurting & a toothache getting worse that the methadone was masking...bitchin'!!!
thanks for reading!!!

 

[Ignio]

7 days off, that it so nice to see. Keep fighting. Soon you should hit a stage where you will start feeling better (not god, but less bad). I hope looking forward to that can give you some joy.

How are you sleeping? How are your mood?

Again, respect for doing this and I wish you continually good luck.

 

[George27]

Well I'm officially in hell..don't know what i did/am doing wrong..

Probably you have tapered too fast.

 

[crzydiamond]

You'll have increased sensitivity to pain for the next few weeks. Any time I have detoxed opiates, for the first few weeks ill feel old pains that I haven't felt in years, and usual aches become 10 times stronger. It levels out soon. It's just that for so long the opiates blocked all pain so now you're super sensitive to it. It's like the nerve endings are hyper aware or something.

Three weeks from now, you'll be normal. Hang in there.

 

[Znegative]

Thanks so much for the info...i want to be off everything.
Actually when I was on the 90mg of roxys a day, it helped my migraines & in all honesty felt darn good too!!
BUT now with the "rules" the FDA & DEA are "suggesting" are scaring the crap out of every doctor I know & thats why my PM doc suddenly dropped me in one visit from 90 mg to 45 mg of roxys a day after 4.5 yrs NOT bc of me, but he made up some dumb excuse..so when i got home, i googled "pain pill issues, doctors, March 2016, and there it was plain as day that the FDA & DEA had "made suggestions" to doctors re: opiate pain meds to decrease such meds to the lowest dose a patient can take, or eliminate such drugs altogether bc of the recent severe problems associated with opiate pain medicines & deaths related to them"
So once again, the WONDERFUL F-ING DEA is continuing its "war on drugs" and creating a whole new generation of heroin addicts.
Sorry for my ramble, but long & short, that is the reason i want off the roxys-its going to get impossible to get them.
Thanks for your post & for reading ��

That's such a fucked up situation. It's so fucking ignorant too because it's like addressing the problem by avoiding it. They dispense super addictive narcotics like candy and get a whole generation hooked on the shit, and then take it away and start imprisoning people when they turn to heroin out of desperation.

Anyway, I know others have mentioned these drugs, but can't you get ahold of some clonodine? Clonodine used with benzo's will make the withdrawals manageable enough that you'll be able to sleep, you'll just feel super lethargic. It will take some of the pain away too, although not the tooth pain. Another good thing about clonodine is that it has a synergistic effect with benzodiazepines, so you don't have to take as much xanax or clonazepam as you would without it.

 

[natalie71]

Thank you SO MUCH for everyone's comments, help & encouragement.
It is just unbearable at certain times...last "night", i didn't fall asleep till 9:30am after cursing, praying, begging, bargaining..the usual desperate actions. 8(
But then i slowly kept taking 2mg of Subutex till i got to 16mgs & with my headphones on listening to music, I FINALLY fell asleep till 1:30pm, drank water & went back to sleep until 3:30pm..
Now i woke, drank water, forced down a piece of toast & am taking 1mg Subutex right now bc the pain in my legs is back even after taking a 600mg Ibuprofen.
THANK YOU ALL again!! I will continue to post on this lovely journey..
oh & thanks, i am trying to get some clonodine.
Take care

 

[Darqmom13]

Hello,
I'm sorry to hear you are suffering so much, when there is such great withdrawal relief in a plant called Kratom. I found this wonderful herb during a horrible withdrawal from my ongoing titration off Methadone. I was so desperate for relief that wasn't another narcotic or benzo. I am so done with getting addicted to anything else! The wonderful thing about this dried leaf that grows in southeast Asia, is that it mimics an opiate on your hurting receptors during withdrawal. (From any opiate) apparently it floats over the receptors, not attaching to them like an actual opiate does. It calms all of my withdrawal symptoms enough for me to be up typing this and actually feeling somewhat normal. I order it online from a reputable company, (there are many) and take only the tiniest bit to get through it. I make a soothing tea with honey and soy creamer because it's pretty bitter alone. Look online for Kratom forums for Methadone withdrawal. Do research and read. I would never put anything in my body anymore if it will hurt me, I've been sober since 2010. I'm hoping that this helps someone, it certainly helps me. I was on 60 Mg's and now I've titrated down to 11mgs all slowly and with Kratom teas help. I couldn't have come this far without it, it's certainly a miracle for me!
Hope this helps!

 

[Darqmom13]

Also, Kratom is amazing for pain relief AND it's not addictive like opiates. You still have to be careful and watch your consumption, because our bodies can become habituated to any substance. If we use anything too long, and aren't armed with all the information we can get on a particular substance we knowingly take into our bodies, we can find ourselves sick if all of a sudden the supply is cut off. With responsible use, Kratom has literally saved my mind, my pain problems and my life. I'm so relieved it didn't get scheduled to an illegal substance this September. Its still available online, so I suggest trying it for pain management as well. Message me and I'll tell you more of my journey to living life on almost no Methadone, soon I'll be off of it! ?

 

[carlamartin1962]

Hi there Iam a 16yr methadone user from clinic and i would love to get off, i tried once cold turkey witg nothing but weed was HORRIBLE SICK IN BED 6MO. And another 6mo just sitting " No ENERGY WHAT SOEVER!!!! Had to make myself do anything!! This why im so very AFRAID! ! Please Help Me! Carla

 

[RDP89]

Hi there Iam a 16yr methadone user from clinic and i would love to get off, i tried once cold turkey witg nothing but weed was HORRIBLE SICK IN BED 6MO. And another 6mo just sitting " No ENERGY WHAT SOEVER!!!! Had to make myself do anything!! This why im so very AFRAID! ! Please Help Me! Carla

Have you tried a slow taper?

 

[RDP89]

Also, Kratom is amazing for pain relief AND it's not addictive like opiates.

This isn't true, kratom contains compounds that are opioid receptor agonists, therefore it has the potential for addiction just like any other opioid.