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Leftist Discussion Thread

You don't debate, you make shit up then can't back it up.
Hard to debate in good faith when you put words in my mouth thar I never said.
All I'm saying is the 2 cases of Jewish terrorism mentioned by esch don't compare to what muslim terrorists have done. Don't see how anyone can argue with that.
Muslims terrorists killed more than any other in recent years and that's all there is to it.
 
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Somerandomdude said:
This post shows your unbelievable disconnect from reality.

Yes there is atrocious stuff in the Bible, but how many Jews interpret it literally? Any Jews gone on massacres of non-Jews lately? Judaism has maybe 20 million adherents worldwide. Islam 1.6 billion. Even if there were Jews going around butchering people quoting the Old Testament it wouldn't be anywhere near the problem that Islam is.
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I agree, education has improved the mindset of the previously dangerous religious beliefs, today the more educated religious people see that religions are social structures built around core beliefs. The social structure are dated as society moves on.

Core beliefs are what make us human, religions with a core belief of murder can see it has no place and it is moved out and realized for what it is. This happens through education, Judaism and to a degree christianity have begun to understand this. Buddhism and Hinduism seem to have realized this at their core as well. Most practitioners of Islam understand this. Sociopaths from all segments of society will exist. Education seems to drive them away, not garlic or silver bullets (or any more silly icon).

To educate people you can't hit them on the head and tell them to learn. You must present a reason that the education you offer will improve their world. Then give them time to learn. It's a huge task, I don't see another option. If you see a peaceful solution I'm in.

We have argued lots and I see fear, denial and a fair amount of name tossing on both sides. If that works, we are well on the way to world peace. Please don't take my sarcasm personally. To even be posting and reading these threads means we are at the table talking. It's a good start when we do that.
 
Tbh I haven't read anything new in these many threads in a while.

We are just beating the same poor story back and forth.

The American population elected Trump without a safe word. How good is your lube, this is gonna hurt. It will start by pissing off a lot of nations by changing rules whenever he sees fit. The 'advisor of the day' approach will keep the population and the toothless American media jumping about arguing with each other.

You will very quickly lose authority in your own country, state, city, community and eventually home. This will always be for your safety and we'll being. The path you are on is steep, when you become paniced (probably really soon), you will swap out your new leader for his VP choice and the real ride will begin. Just my view, maybe America is right and Trump will make you great?

The truth is, left or right unless you can co-operate as a unit your country is in trouble. Stop yelling about bad decisions and find common ground quickly, you need a real plan that everyone can get behind.

Perhaps Trump will set up cities of refuge in Saudi Arabia with their assistance and American money. This will provide places to send the first waves of deportees. He isn't showing his hand, the media say there is no plan, anger is burning through the uninformed population while the world is beginning to burn.

There a butt load of tension, we have a government that doesn't have a clear plan just a lot of unresolved anger. Your population blames immigrants for taking your jobs still despite the understanding that money, controlled by wealth prefers to pay the immigrant. The wealth of America would happily pay immigrants that work hard, for less. Employing a bunch of whiney old white men means you have to allow their input into your business constantly because they all know better. I am a blue collar worker, I've learning to work with other ethnic groups and build teams that cross ethnic boundaries and become far more successful as a group.

The truth of keeping a job is being someone who not only works well but is easy to work with. Jobs will continue to leave your country if you have no cheap labour available. Capitalism, the religion you have embraced to make you rich, requires you take from the poor by using their labour at its lowest point and controlling all the labour with the application of money, not to make jobs or wealth for people but to simply control them. Lower education makes it easier to control the population. America is not the world leader in education. It becomes apparent reading here. Sorry if that hurts but it's true, lots of ideological names are being tossed at each other, not solid solutions or even a new perspectives.

I'm not really a winger right or left I am just a person and I see other people not some political position or threat. At the end of the day we either work toward peace which will bring safety or we work towards rules that bring oppression and probably no safety. Watch what happens in the US while new rules that only affect a specific minority are unleashed. The left wing are yelling and the right wing are yelling back while Nero has the flame thrower. Is that too obvious?
 
My leftie friends...can i go ot to ask..what yall think about the uprising in kosovo, slobo response, and us response?

Facinating topic since it involves nationalism, muslim uprisings, and overwhelming nato airpower. ?

Awe let it go a few posts mods. I wanna learn what others think.
 
^^ Most of it was hypocritical: Albanians do to the Serbs what they did in Bosnia and Croatia (i.e. claim areas because they held population majorities); NATO defends Albanians and uses force against the Serb military - the same military it refused to attack in Bosnia, where NATO stood by and watched them cleanse and massacre many areas. Farcical if it wasn't for the atrocious loss of lives.
 
Guys, I've tied up the last 2 pages which were getting very off-topic.

Seriously, there is no issue with being passionate but getting insulting is pretty pointless.

Let's make this post a line in the sand.

If you are someone on the right- do not use this thread to start attacking people. Debate and challenge- yes! Please! If you are a leftist, do not assume the right are attacking you- listen to them, debate them!
 
morninggloryseed said:
My leftie friends...can i go ot to ask..what yall think about the uprising in kosovo, slobo response, and us response?

Facinating topic since it involves nationalism, muslim uprisings, and overwhelming nato airpower. ��

Awe let it go a few posts mods. I wanna learn what others think.
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If you're talking of the Balkan conflict 20+ years since, please dont use Slobo, which is far more reminiscent of Slovenia (which had a 14 day war and few deaths). There are times for interventions (I'm not a pacifist) and this was one where the west ummed and arred far too much, causing far too many unnecessary deaths. Nobody behaved well. Some worse than others. The British revolutionary left (hahahaha) came out of the whole thing particularly badly.

Tito's death was underestimated. Or his clever politics before his death were.

Milosevic and Karadzic (death and 40 years in prison) got off lightly. Croatia came out best.

Kosovo is still only recognized by half the countries in the world. Most Kosovo Albanians fled, many to my country (UK). Kosovan Albanians are good businessmen. Or good crooks. Depending on your point of view. They were still expelled forcibly from their own homeland. Like I said, nobody comes out well. A metaphor for the times.
 
Yourbaker said:
At the end of the day we either work toward peace which will bring safety or we work towards rules that bring oppression and probably no safety. Watch what happens in the US while new rules that only affect a specific minority are unleashed. The left wing are yelling and the right wing are yelling back while Nero has the flame thrower. Is that too obvious?
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It's easier said than done. People on the right genuinely believe that they are advocating for greater safety for themselves, as do people on the left. The problem is that there is so much misinformation going around now that true discussion on the issues is not even happening. At all. Right now, for example, the right is being manipulated to think that we're defending the US from a threat by banning immigrants, while clearly the ban has nothing to do with safety as it omitted Saudi Arabia. The left has convinced itself, either through groupthink or being manipulated by the media, that the ban is racist or anti-Muslim. And while the ban could certainly be seen as racist or anti-Muslim, that is certainly not the main intent of the ban. Meanwhile, little discussion is going on about the fact that Iran has just gone from a country that we had a peace treaty with to a country that we are threatening war with. If you think about the ban in the context of the Iran situation, then a logical motive for the ban emerges -- a political tool for stirring the pot and undermining Obama's deal with the peaceful faction of Iran's government. It basically reinstates the Axis of Evil from the Bush years.
 
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cashfl0w_d0nkey said:
And while the ban could certainly be seen as racist or anti-Muslim, that is certainly not the main intent of the ban.
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i wouldnt be so sure of that. context is everything.

there have been stories going around about trump wanting or working towards a war with iran*, so its not like there's no discussion on it, just maybe not much in your circles.

*pretty sure i read one shared on fb that suggested the ban was part of a plan to create a war with iran, but i only use fb from mobile and cbf to try to find the one i'm thinking of right now

The problem is that there is so much misinformation going around now that true discussion on the issues is not even happening.
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and this is why i absolutely insist on claims being backed up with objective evidence (that, and because its good debate manners and kind of required) and why i back up every single one of my claims. tbh its pretty clear which "side" is interested in discussing things and which isnt based on the amount of sophistry and willful ignorance. anybody that is debating in good faith will make every effort to ensure their argument is backed up by evidence and logically sound, and not resort to things like ad hominems when their argument isnt valid. its plain as day everywhere i look.
 
yes, a footnote tied to 3 news stories from reputable sources referring to something seen elsewhere was totally referring to just some completely baseless quotation and not another news story from another reputable source. because context is totally meaningless and gives absolutely no meaning or understanding to whats going on in the world or in a discussion.
 
^You know most of us aren't actually crying or making a real fuss, right?

This is so cyclical though so I guess I'll give it up.
 
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