Bruhhhh1234
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What do you mean under gastric acid conditions? When I smoke thc my heart rate goes up as well if I drink... Would that happen if I smoked cdb?
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MDMA &
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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)
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Budal202
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dude, I read so many bad things about SSRI before taking Lexapro, that almost gave up taking. I am here today, about a month since I ended a quick treatment of 6 months that, along with all the other things I tried, completely healed me.
I did a study myself, I made attempts to search about anything, any medicine, any treatment on google and ALL searches found articles that said that would hurt you someway. Do it yourself. You will find bad things and studies on the internet about every fucking thing. But I think that SSRI MUST be tried at least once, if you cann't recover alone.
You can check below a post of mine here in the forum about SSRI before treatment. I had basically the same reaction as you, take a look:
31-01-2016 14:48
After reading about Post SSRI sexual dysfunction i decide not to take it anymore.
Shit.
Shit.
link: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...tories-amp-Support-3)?p=13454752#post13454752
It may be true that SSRIs cause some sort of damage to your brain but I believe it happens after many years of uninterrupted use. I'm sure this will not happen if you make an short attempt.
About sexual dysfunction. lexapro 10mg not only did not caused me any problems, as it helped me to have more mood and libido. From 20mg you really begin to have problems with libido (got to take 20mg for 1 month), but once you turn 10 again or stop taking you go back to normal.
after 2 weeks without taking it i became a sex maniac hahahaha, had sex 10 times a week and I still masturbate a lot. I'm not bragging, just trying to cheer you up hahahaha. Try it man.
Cotcha Yankinov
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It's important to be very wary of translating studies in animals to humans, and the issues with translating studies in young developing animals to mature humans are numerous. I most certainly wouldn't draw any conclusions off of a study that gives adolescent rats large doses of SSRIs while their neural systems are fundamentally still developing. There are many cases where a drug can have a very harmful effect while the neural systems are developing but then it can have very little effects when the brain is mature. When the brain cells are differentiating and migrating to their respective brain regions they are very vulnerable to be influenced by drugs - that's not the case with a mature brain, so ultimately I wouldn't let this sort of stuff scare you away from SSRIs.
Cotcha Yankinov
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The stomach is very acidic and under acidic conditions CBD can cyclize to THC, see for example http://csatc.org/pdf-Scientific-Research/Watanabe2007.pdf
It's also possible that CBD could cyclize to THC underneath its own acidity when vaporized. So CBD is kinda a tricky one to ingest.
Cotcha Yankinov
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I think those stories are the vocal minority - granted we are the vocal minority when it comes to MDMA but I think the success stories with SSRIs are really under reported. The other thing is that LTC sufferers are a really unusual population, but so far I've seen a fair number of SSRI success stories. I don't think that sleep/mindfulness/cardio/diet should be forgotten by any means but by all means try every thing other people are reporting success with if only a couple things aren't getting you all the way there or if you aren't recovering very fast, although of course it will take time regardless. Even though some people are reporting random drastic improvements both with and without SSRIs. I certainly wouldn't expect a day and night switch with SSRIs though, just as we don't expect that with depression - they generally take a couple months to start working.
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Budal202
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Yep, I had 45 bad days before feeling any good from the ssri. Funny fact is that after this 45 days I felt very good, I was relaxed and confortable, I could focus on important things and distract myself, very positive about my healing process, but after some days, suddenly an intrusive thought invaded my mind: "what if all that shit starts again?" and that really happened, i went back to 15%, I was pretty bad again. Today when I look behind I see how powerful mind is. You see, i was totally fine for like 2, 3 weeks, and suddenly that thought, just that 3 seconds inside my mind was enough to put me pratically in the same state I was just after my first panic attack. If i didn't had a memory from all the events that happened after that panic attack, my traumas, i woudn't get depersonalized again.
And realizing this is what recovered me again after and never got worse again.
Well 45 days is within the usual 6-8 week time period that is said everywhere so its not *extremely long*. Not saying that you think it is but when I thought about it in "days" that was worse than thinking about weeks for me at least.
Cotcha Yankinov
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Adubbs, valerian is okay but I'd be cautious with withdrawal symptoms when taking it for days on end. I can't say I'm familiar with the dosages. Melatonin is okay but I recommend keeping it under 3mf and using extended release, also no light 30 minutes before taking. Can download Flux for your computer to turn off the melatonin inhibiting blue light.
Not with SSRI but I think for me I am going to work with the dr about finding something helpful cause mindfulness meditation hasn't been helping and I often always feel more agitated due to the frustration. Exercise I can do but I just can't seem to do the meditation.
I suppose im not alone but hasn't mindfulness often been shown to be more useful at preventing a relapse? By relapse I assume that means somebody has 100% recovered from depression and to prevent another episode from happening. In my case (and im guessing most people since this is a LTC) this stuff sort of came on very "suddenly" if you know what I mean. As in there wasn't really an "in between" state between being healthy and getting depressed. I have Jon Kabat Zinn's book and he does say to tread cautiously when currently in a depressive episode and to maybe wait until other methods have pulled you out.
So kinda like Budal said with that one thought example when he was feeling pretty good I can see how mindfulness could be applied to let it pass and then move on.
Cotcha Yankinov
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Prevention of depression with mindfulness was the original thinking, for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19733812/ -
"The purpose of this study was to investigate the impact of mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR; Kabat-Zinn, 1982, 1990) training on a self-selected adult community sample in the areas of mindfulness, rumination, depressive symptomatology and overall well-being. Targeting rumination was considered particularly important because a tendency toward rumination in nondepressed populations has been found to be predictive of subsequent onset of depression. As hypothesized, completers of the MBSR class showed increases in mindfulness and overall wellbeing, and decreases in rumination and symptoms of depression."
But the thinking now is that mindfulness is effective in the midst of depression as well, although it is certainly difficult and should be considered an adjunct therapy in some cases. Ideally our biology would be such that maintaining a mindfulness mindset would come naturally. You can shift that biology with mindfulness with time but it sure is hard for some people, myself included. The frustration was real and it took some time to learn not to get frustrated. It might be worth noting that I've since found that patience I gained to be invaluable in other areas of life.
I imagine though that only so much of these studies that are using mindfulness based classes and mindfulness based counseling transfer to people practicing on their own, I'm sure there is much added benefit to attending a class or like one person who has since recovered who actually went on a retreat (although they weren't a typical LTC).
"The purpose of this study was to investigate the impact of mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR; Kabat-Zinn, 1982, 1990) training on a self-selected adult community sample in the areas of mindfulness, rumination, depressive symptomatology and overall well-being. Targeting rumination was considered particularly important because a tendency toward rumination in nondepressed populations has been found to be predictive of subsequent onset of depression. As hypothesized, completers of the MBSR class showed increases in mindfulness and overall wellbeing, and decreases in rumination and symptoms of depression."
But the thinking now is that mindfulness is effective in the midst of depression as well, although it is certainly difficult and should be considered an adjunct therapy in some cases. Ideally our biology would be such that maintaining a mindfulness mindset would come naturally. You can shift that biology with mindfulness with time but it sure is hard for some people, myself included. The frustration was real and it took some time to learn not to get frustrated. It might be worth noting that I've since found that patience I gained to be invaluable in other areas of life.
I imagine though that only so much of these studies that are using mindfulness based classes and mindfulness based counseling transfer to people practicing on their own, I'm sure there is much added benefit to attending a class or like one person who has since recovered who actually went on a retreat (although they weren't a typical LTC).
Yea I mean the difference is that rumination didn't exactly precede the LTC and is more a symptom of the LTC. I would concur with the "adjunct therapy" thing as its really overwhelming to do it when the biology of the problem is going haywire. Even therapists agree with that. I think personally I'd rather try a non-SSRI medication before ever resorting to SSRIs again. I tried Pregablin (Lyrica) for a week and it helped anxiety as well as depression for me and my only sexual side effect was that orgasms seemed weaker but I could still get it up but the main side effect that made it difficult for me was the cognitive hangover type stuff. I don't have cognitive issues like some of the severe people here do with the LTC so I didn't want to deal with that as it makes me less sharp.
I have no idea about an MBCT type class thing or a 1 on 1 psychologist thing but I think that is probably more useful cause you can ask questions and get answers. And it probably helps with the frustration/patience part of it rather than doing it on your own. Unfortunately right now I don't really have any of these classes nearby nor do I have the time.
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Also this is completely separate but whats the deal with the T3 (the thyoid hormone) augmentation type stuff for MDD? I've heard some psychiatrists actually do this to improve SSRI response in MDD but no clue about this for an LTC. I'm just curious if its something to look into potentially as one more option
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Budal202
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I had very grainy vision for 2 months after 7 pills I took, whichi think is related to the amount of serotonin hormones. After 2 months it normalized, a lot of floaters, and tingling in whole body, which made me think I had multiple sclerosis hehe.
dude, I read so many bad things about SSRI before taking Lexapro, that almost gave up taking. I am here today, about a month since I ended a quick treatment of 6 months that, along with all the other things I tried, completely healed me.
I did a study myself, I made attempts to search about anything, any medicine, any treatment on google and ALL searches found articles that said that would hurt you someway. Do it yourself. You will find bad things and studies on the internet about every fucking thing. But I think that SSRI MUST be tried at least once, if you cann't recover alone.
You can check below a post of mine here in the forum about SSRI before treatment. I had basically the same reaction as you, take a look:
31-01-2016 14:48
After reading about Post SSRI sexual dysfunction i decide not to take it anymore.
Shit.
link: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...tories-amp-Support-3)?p=13454752#post13454752
It may be true that SSRIs cause some sort of damage to your brain but I believe it happens after many years of uninterrupted use. I'm sure this will not happen if you make an short attempt.
About sexual dysfunction. lexapro 10mg not only did not caused me any problems, as it helped me to have more mood and libido. From 20mg you really begin to have problems with libido (got to take 20mg for 1 month), but once you turn 10 again or stop taking you go back to normal.
after 2 weeks without taking it i became a sex maniac hahahaha, had sex 10 times a week and I still masturbate a lot. I'm not bragging, just trying to cheer you up hahahaha. Try it man.
Thanks for your reply, I also read your recovery story. Glad you are doing better now. But in this few days I took the SSRI I felt really better, now I know there is a world beyond the LTC, so maybe it will give me a bit willpower to stay though for a few months/year. If it gets really bad I could switch back again. I'm just not willing to take another risk if I don't know how it's really going to affect me.
The strange thing was that they worked after 3 days (the first effects even on the second day) and I felt completely normal, so how far could it be away from full recovery? Maybe something I should think about too.
Do you know any studies that investigate this factors (Tryptophan-Hydroxylase activity, SERT density, etc.) with SSRI in humans? And I'm 18 now.
Another thing: I did a lot of Tramadol from the age of 13-17 (approx. about 4g), which is a Serotonin-Releaser. And if I take the information from the article I linked (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI...le_Dysfunktion), nearly any drug that acts as an serotonin-releaser causes epigenetic changes in the brain, and if I would go on, in the link there is also something about MDMA, and maybe the long term effects of MDMA are not caused by axonal degeneration or SERT-loss, but due epigenetic changes that lead to reduced Tryptophan-Hydroxylase, 5-HT1A density, and so on, just because of the massive serotonin doses, that on it own change the genes.
If I understood it right, every substance that causes abnormal high serotonin levels (so even 5-HTP?) leads to changes in the genes. And if this changes are epigenetic, wouldn't some substances as ECGC (from green tea) help to repair this damage and maybe really be the solution for full recovery?
Any thoughts on this theory? Would be really interesting to investigate further.
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Cotcha Yankinov
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The thyroxine/thyroid hormone augmentation therapy is usually for treating hormonal disturbances seen with lithium treatment in bipolar depression. I haven't heard anything about it being used for MDD although I'm sure it's been tried.
Cotcha Yankinov
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Just to be clear and put your mind at ease a bit, Tramadol is not a serotonin releasing agent (which reverses the action of serotonin transporters that normally vacuum up serotonin from the synaptic cleft, reversal causing serotonin to spill out into the cleft) but rather it just inhibits the reuptake transporters from vacuuming it up.
But regarding measurements after chronic SSRI use (serotonin releasing agent use), results aren't very clear, and the genetic changes that lead to SSRI efficacy are still being unraveled. But it's clear that people with different genetics respond better than others. Some studies have shown that even chronic MDMA abusers SERT levels return to normal given enough time. But in general decreased SERT expression is probably a compensation for lower serotonin levels acutely after MDMA.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4207076/?report=classic -
"Experiments by Launay et al. [14], performed on neuronal cultures from raphe nuclei (and serotonergic neurons induced from the 1C11 cell line) demonstrated that 5-HT2B receptor-PKC coupling promotes phosphorylations of SERT that control SERT activity. More specifically, it was shown that 5-HT2B receptor stimulation in the absence of added serotonin approximately doubled phosphorylation of SERT serotonin transport, a result very different from the generally accepted ability of fluoxetine to reduce SERT activity [14]. This pronounced difference may be explained by substantial differences between the immature and the mature brain [15, 16]."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10575045/ -
"he serotonin content of the hippocampus was unaffected by paroxetine or sertraline treatment, ruling out neurotoxicity as a possible explanation for the SSRI-induced decrease in SERT binding and alteration in 5-HT clearance. Levels of mRNA for the SERT in the raphe nucleus were also unaltered by chronic paroxetine treatment. Based on these results, it appears that the SERT is downregulated by chronic administration of SSRIs but not other types of antidepressants; furthermore, the downregulation is not caused by decreases in SERT gene expression."
Hope this was helpful, feel free to ask any questions. Ultimately I wouldn't worry about taking SSRIs if you feel you need to, and I wouldn't worry about having taken Tramadol in the past. Treating stressful conditions is probably more important than the long term effects of SSRIs. And in your case the real harm could come from simply worrying about the long term effects. You have a lot on your plate at 18! But I promise things will smooth out with time. Try not to think too much, although if you like learning about neuroscience-ish things because it occupies your mind in a good way then that's okay in my opinion, it helped me anyways.
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