the lounge discussion v. september 2016

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Again, I didn't advocate for new rules. I advocated for a reworking of current rules to better fit the community and the goals of the forum.
 
kytnism said:
the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of there being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of individuals attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the entire community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.

...kytnism...:|
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When was that? Pretty interesting regardless.

Let's call it like it is. This comes down to two groups really. The one with lesser members only has a voice bc they fall in step with what smods want.

It's like Alasdair, smods, Aussies,a couple posters that no longer post here, and a couple beta male posters VS everyone else

A formidable crew but far from the majority of regular daily posters IMO
 
kytnism said:
the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of their being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the entire community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.

...kytnism...:|
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It is a new concept in the sense that it's not a new site all together. It's just giving people an option of the current TL vs a new TL.


The issues with the current TL is that it's ruined by a few people who drown out everyone else. Ok, so give everyone else a forum and let those handful of people that drown people out an opportunity to fuck off in their own corner. They'll eventually quit or join the new community, right?


The only risk here is that nobody will want to join the new community because they're more than happy with their shitty little corner, thus taking the thunder out of the sails of anyone who says the current Lounge isn't working.


I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and choose with my posts. This option doesn't take anything away, it just gives choices. It's not forcing people to post in a forum where they're not wanted, like it's currently the case with people that don't like TL as is.
 
you have that choice right now phro (to fuck off in your own corner). ali has made it crystal clear that will be no divide of TL and a separation of forums. im sorry but its probably time to accept that and join the rest of us in trying to find a solution to the current issues members and staff have with the operation of the lounge and make some suggestions on what you personally feel could better improve the quality for everyone; and as a present staff member of the lounge set an example?

...kytnism...:|
 
phr said:
Edit: It's shot down for unknown reasons.
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it's shot down because preserving the status quo in the lounge is not an option. i understand that a number of regulars feel they're entitled to a forum where they do what they want and the rules don't apply to them. in part, that's the problem we're discussing. if you don't like that and disagree with it, that's fine, but the decision has already been made to effect change.

alasdair
 
Bomboclat said:
I propose a solution:

- make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum
- assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator
- re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
- only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
- clean house if necessary
- Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback

As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.
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i'm wholeheartedly support these suggestions.

kytnism said:
i love this suggestion. good job bambi. i also loved zephs performance reviewal idea? performance reviewal is imperative in any job, volunteer or paid and keeps people in their positions humble, communicating with their superiors and hard working to achieve positive results. i also suggest it be made clear to anyone taking on a moderators position that the rules are across the board and friendships, alliances or enemies are irrelevant when enforcing them and if that is something you're not willing or able to do, then you're probably not the correct candidate for the role?

...kytnism...:|
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i'm not the biggest fan of periodic performance-based reviews - to me they're a bit archaic. i feel that it shouldn't be periodic, but on-going and consistent. praise publicly (mod thread), criticize privately (PMs). it's not perfect, but i feel that it would avoid some of the pitfalls of zeph's suggestion (i.e popularity contest) or periodic performance-based reviews.

to be clear, bambi, i was removed for telling CS about a reported post and then lying about it. that was like 4 years ago though. :)
 
Hey, I'm offering a lot of suggestions, more so than others and I'm sorry that we don't agree on them.


I'm not trying to divide TL unlike the people that shut it down abruptly and whom are forcing the current forum posters to reform or leave the site are. Me suggesting that people chose with their posts isn't division. It's giving them a choice.


Again, i'd like to make it clear that the behavior that does not fly anymore in TL is the behavior that has been exhibited in that forum from the very start. There is nothing new about offensive behavior in TL. And this is not a partisan idea that just I have. Look above, bombo agrees with me. Hell, all it takes is a quick search to see that the shit that certain people don't like in TL anymore is what's been posted there since the beginning of time. And as I've said earlier, the only difference is that the signal to noise ratio is different nowadays. The people that provided more of the signal have left and haven't been replaced and you guys are trying to get the people that provide the noise to change and provide the signal. That's not going to work. People have to want to do that, you can't force them, either with bans or new rules.


I know what alasdairm said about no two forums. I just wish he explained why he feels that way. Edit: he just did.
 
if you go through the history of the threads that i've created in TL, then you can easily see the change in posting styles, attitudes, and behaviors over the years. in part, i agree with phr (noise:signal), but i also feel that a change (changes?) are necessary.

however, i'm not pleased that TL had to be shutdown in order for this conversation to start. we're a community based subforum - i wish we had some sort of thread (in TL) that would allow regular/on-going civil conversation(s) in regards to how they want their community managed.
 
alasdairm said:
there's no reason that, for now, this thread can't fulfill that purpose.

alasdair
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did you mean "can" instead of "can't"?

if yes, then i agree - that is the purpose this thread is serving now. i'm just disheartened that TL had to be closed for this conversation to start. i hope you understand.
 
similar to bambi i dont necessarily want a whole new set of rules and i also believe that admin are on the same page with this. what they do want is for the lounge to operate to a standard that is welcoming to everyone and that the staff team are united and unbiased in enforcing the rules. its pretty simple really?

i feel this needs to be mentioned and only to get you to further understand why were currently in this situation but as a staff member you are supposed to set an example to the fellow members of the standard that is acceptable and unfortunately while you chose to host "games" where unwarranted bans went down and repeatedly bully certain members (eg. stay faded) and in ways that crossed the boundaries of the rules you failed in your role. never in bluelight history has a moderator been enabled to host popularity contests where members vote to see another that is abiding by the rules result in a one month ban. i dont know why you thought that sort of thing could go on forever and not impact the flow of a happy forum? and each morning referring to your bowel movements as a members name, can you not see how this encourages a pack mentality of bullying and members thinking "well if he does it and he's our boss, it must be ok"? this is not the example of a good moderator. there have been multitudes of moderators able to host games or events such as the color wars, facey pasty, comic books, trading cards etc. that everyone was fairly able to participate in and enjoy. this is what is being asked for right now, a unity of community where moderators set a precedent of whats expected socially and in accordance to the blua and lounge guidelines. if you can't or refuse to come to the party on this phro, maybe reddit really is your best option?

...kytnism...:|
 
kytnism said:
never in bluelight history has a moderator been enabled to host popularity contests where members vote to see another that is abiding by the rules result in a one month ban.
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for completeness, that was actually my idea and i take responsibility for it.

i was disappointed that the idea i had for a light-hearted, fun lounge idea turned into the mean-spirited brawl that it did but perhaps i was naive to expect anything else.

alasdair
 
none of us are perfect, myself included and i am just as guilty as the next person of bending the rules and being brazen during this period, but seeing the outcome and members lash out against it has proven how destructive mean spirited behaviour truly is and the divide it can create within an otherwise very close knit community. id really love to see everyone come together on this issue and see the lounge return to its former state.

...kytnism...:|
 
I think the vote off thread is a great idea. Why is everyone down on it I guess unless the previous winners whined about it. I have only ever known the lounge to be a place that was somewhere you could troll and have fun shitposting with like minds. Things change for the better or worse, and sometimes we have to move on. Phro you tried, and that is all you can do. Try out their new ideas and if you dont agree, follow suit. Life is too short to sweat this kind of stuff. Alasdair you better believe our bet is still on and I will see you in CE&p to collect or pay :)
 
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