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Bernie Sanders

Droppersneck said:
Actually socko out latest programmer is here but his team is out of India. Over all I am very much against the hb1 proposal as it will significantly devalue our domestic workforce which paid their dues getting the nessisary training to get that higher wage job. I don't know Hilary's stance but I am willing to bet she is for it even if she says she is against it.
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According to the IEEE, around 300000 (at the current limit) H1-B visas are issued in the US to foreign STEM workers each year, and they are good for 6 years. The majority are awarded to workers who come from undeveloped countries like India. They are happy just to be in the US so they gladly take tech jobs for a fraction of the pay that a US STEM graduate was reasonably expecting after graduating. There are around 1,8 million foreign H1-B workers making a total of around 5 million STEM workers in the US.

There is intense lobbying pressure on Washington to remove the limit. Apple and other corporations are pushing the myth that there is a shortage of US STEM workers. Even Obama claims that there is a shortage and wants to bring in more. BTW, there is no shortage. On the contrary, there is a surplus to the tune of 3 brand new STEM graduates in the US to every STEM job opening.

Up until Sanders and Trump brought up the issue last year, the Clintons wanted to remove the limit, so presumably the entire population of India could be issued one if they wanted. I get the impression that the Clinton is becoming evasive about the issue, but after consistently suppoerting H1B visas for 30 years I doubt her stance has changed. After 8 more years of the Clintons, STEM jobs could virtually drop to minimum wage. Trump wants to limit H1-B visas on account of the fact that these visas displace American workers with cheap labor
 
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Droppersneck said:
The social revolution you all so yearn for just doesn't pass muster in my eyes well in most people that have been in the working force for a bits eyes, really. Your points have merit, but we are not there yet. You can go to college and get a useful degree and apply it then when making real wages that will pay off your investment and then some start a family. Misguided youth not going into the trades is a issue we have here in middle Tennessee. Can't find a good auto body painter and they are in high demand. You can easily make 6 figures out of the gate but the work is hot in the summer and very hard. I didn't get to where I am at by sticking with one job and keeping my fingers crossed. I payed off my student loans by moving from state to state for better opportunities sometimes leaning on family for support but mostly on my own. It sucks and it is hard/ you go without but it is what you have to do. Being the old man preaching the hard work doctrine gets old but somebody has got to do it before too many youth drink the kool aid Bernie is serving and we become the next Greece or Venezuela, Italy, or worst yet Cuba. America didn't become what it is with 6 week vacations , bankers holidays, and free lunches out the wazoo. Just sayin
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So you should just put your head in the sand because the problem doesn't really effect you, basically?

Not everyone has the same life situation, some people work their asses off and give it their all and still never make it. Focusing on the very tiny minority of minorities that make it is capitalistic propaganda. Those countries you list didn't fall just because of socialism they fell for a variety of reasons a lot of which where contributed by directly or indirectly the capitalist gangsters who control the world.

I agree one should be able to work hard and get ahead but there needs to be a basic level of human decency: education, housing, healthcare, etc that is provided as a safety net with a push to do better. The innovation and free spirit of capitalism married to the compassion and regulations of socialism.

The capitalist "I earned it all on my own and you can too" fairy tale you tell yourself to get to sleep at night is just a propaganda version of history while you ignore all the problems because it's working for you.
 
Latest poll released today shows Bernie has pulled ahead of Hillary in California by 2 points. The loss would be a monumental blow to her campaign. Rumblings are starting to surface that several Superdelegates pledged to her are saying they'll switch their vote to Bernie if he wins CA. Remember, the Superdelegates' job is to pick the strongest candidate to beat the Republicans during the general election. That's it. Their job isn't to just pick whoever has the most state delegates.

1 in 8 people in America live in California. Losing that state at the end of the race after she already declared herself the "undisputed winner" will be the nail in her coffin imo. The Superdelegates will have no choice but to pick Bernie.
 
GenericMind said:
1 in 8 people in America live in California. Losing that state at the end of the race after she already declared herself the "undisputed winner" will be the nail in her coffin imo. The Superdelegates will have no choice but to pick Bernie.
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I'm not into politics but would find a Bernie vs Trump duel very interesting. I would then be able to confirm or re-evaluate some of my views on the Politically minded American public.
 
Hillary knows she's fucked if she loses California. She canceled all her New Jersey events this week to fly to Cali so her and Bill could do a combined THIRTY events over the next 4 days there. Luckily her events are shit and only a few hundred people show up, so I doubt they'll make a difference. Meanwhile Bernie has been drawing tens of thousands of people to every one of his California rallies.

Just remember MSNBC already stated on-air that they and all the other news outlets already have segments ready to air at 8pm EST on June 7th declaring that Hillary has now clinched the nomination, which isn't true today and won't be true on June 7th. They'll be announcing this 2 hours before the California polls close in an attempt to dissuade Bernie voters. Unfortunately for them I dont think it's going to work.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
I'm not into politics but would find a Bernie vs Trump duel very interesting. I would then be able to confirm or re-evaluate some of my views on the Politically minded American public.
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I don't think there is much "mind" in play vis-a-vis the average American and politics. Not to pigeon hole anyone, but I think it just breaks down to the lazy inept (usually) non-voters who could care less, the people who have been brainwashed by the media to work fervently against their own interests, and then a minority (~30%?) who know what's up in an intelligent, analyzed manner.

This could be a triple false dilemma and there is a 4th class, but I'm not aware of its existence at the moment.
 
Phil.McKeer said:
I don't think there is much "mind" in play vis-a-vis the average American and politics. Not to pigeon hole anyone, but I think it just breaks down to the lazy inept (usually) non-voters who could care less, the people who have been brainwashed by the media to work fervently against their own interests, and then a minority (~30%?) who know what's up in an intelligent, analyzed manner.

This could be a triple false dilemma and there is a 4th class, but I'm not aware of its existence at the moment.
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I hate stereotypes but after the last 20-30 years, and especially now with the Trump nomination, I kinda have to agree. Like I know it's the GOP, but still it just proves most of the voting people(and people in general)in the U.S. don't pay attention to anything that's actually been going on, and are easily blinded by charlatan's selling them a bill of goods, while hiding their true agenda(s). It has to do alot with the media in this country.

SO MANY people getting their news from such few and people swallowing every bit of their favorite news channel as fact. Oh yeah that and the lobbyists (not always bad, some are great people doing great things like union lobbyists, but they are always going to watch out for their own interests). Do you know how much money the Koch brothers alone spend each year trying to hold back alternative energy sources so their profits through oil are protected. And that's just one example, it is such a corrupt fucking system it makes me sick at times.

Not ALL Americans are this blinded though, especially ones of my generation(I'm 26), unfortunately a huge percentage of our group don't give a shit about voting or politics in general. Partially I guess a maturity thing, but also an attitude of "it doesn't affect my life, whichobviously couldn;t be farther from the truth. The reason we have a republican governor in my state right now(Bruce Rauner, Illinois) who wants to ruin the state even more and make it into one giant factory for low wage workers; is because of terrible voter turnout among younger voters and in more urban areas. Now the state, which was totally bankrupt by imbecile politicians(alot of them democrat's obviously, some all out crooked, some varying shades of gray; is put in the position of not even being able to try to begin righting the ship because said governor(who some consider a non-violent terrorist, but a terrorist nonetheless, is holding the bill hostage to try and push his big corporation anti-worker,anti-union sentiments. And people actually think Trump wouldn't do the same in a heartbeat. C'mon, the guy completely switched all of his moral stances just to pull this huge thing that will make him and his cronies just as rich as he PRETENDS to be right now. How can you not see it from a mile away?? He's secretley laughing at all of his supporters for going hook,line, and sinker. Even the Donald was surprised how easy that was. And this is a man who renowns himself as basically being the best used car salesman ever.
 
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Phil.McKeer said:
I don't think there is much "mind" in play vis-a-vis the average American and politics. Not to pigeon hole anyone, but I think it just breaks down to the lazy inept (usually) non-voters who could care less, the people who have been brainwashed by the media to work fervently against their own interests, and then a minority (~30%?) who know what's up in an intelligent, analyzed manner.

This could be a triple false dilemma and there is a 4th class, but I'm not aware of its existence at the moment.
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The 4th class doesn't vote. ;) They likely prefer to remain anonymous.

And I have to agree about "mind". I must admit I find Trump interesting and in reality best represents the America that most Americans openly or secretly identify with. To me he's like the American Eagle in a way. The American Eagle being the perfect symbol to represent our culture. Mostly survives by scavenging and stealing and a bit of a bully. Go A team!=D
 
Phil.McKeer said:
Very good analysis, GM. We are of one mind on this. Let's see what happens at the CA Primary...
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Even if he wins by 70% there's no way they give him the nomination. The DNC would rather give it to a crook than let someone like Sanders in. Sucks but that's the way it is. Trump is a threat to these people too but not in a way where both the democrats and the republicans can agree to work together to shut him down, Trump can be bought and his ego stoked.
 
If the Retarded Orange Man (whose true name from here on I will never employ in speech or text) somehow becomes the next POTUS, I may consider self-immolation before the Lincoln monument in protest.

As it stands, I remain firmly in the belief that the ROM has no chance of being elected. This belief balances on the results of the Democratic Primary; if the increasingly high probability that the distinguished Senator from Vermont loses and the Madame Secretary attempts to inherit her apocryphal throne (this requires the superdelegates to act in an irrational manner, which they are very liable to do, and also some cheating, which we saw already in Nevada, not to mention the blatant thieveries of 2004 and 2000), all bets will be off. The polls do not seem to favor the Secretary over the ROM.

The black wind blows. I sense impending doom. We shall either bloom into a Second Renascence, or continue to wither slowly with our ongoing descent into republicide.
 
I fear you are correct. I think these things are often rigged to some extent. I mean politicians do know that they are unpopular yet they continue to ignore majority opinion often in favor of lobbyists agendas due to the fact that there is where the money is. How can it not be a rigged game in favor of the current power structure within politics. But maybe I'm wrong and this is exactly what the people want.

And my question would be if Bernie wins what is accomplished within such a system? He might find himself unpopular with both sides like IMO Jimmy Carter did.
 
We have one of the worst governments in history as far as reaching across the aisle to make things work. You may very well be correct about sanders being like carter....

What angers me is that there is a huge trend showing that the average american is fed up with establishment politics, yet they want to pretty much stay the course. The only reason Clinton has been talking about some of the programs that sanders is talking about is because she has to in order to stay current with him. Without sanders there to raise good points, all we would have, should she be elected of course, is just a lobbyist for president.
 
I kind of hate Bernie for making me care about politics again. I feel like by tuesday night, i'll have passed my 5 year anniversary on bluelight and reverted back to my namesake personality trait.

At the end of the day, manboychef is right. We are ignorant as a people.
It would probably be best if the planet purged itself of us sooner rather than later, while it can still recover.
 
noone1 said:
Even if he wins by 70% there's no way they give him the nomination. The DNC would rather give it to a crook than let someone like Sanders in. Sucks but that's the way it is. Trump is a threat to these people too but not in a way where both the democrats and the republicans can agree to work together to shut him down, Trump can be bought and his ego stoked.
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As much as they want to nominate Hillary, they can't afford to lose this election. The next president will be nominating all least 1, maybe 2 Supreme Court Justices. Hillary's ongoing FBI investigation + her weak head to head polling against Trump + her ridiculously high unfavorability rating among voters + a weak finish in states like California will force them to pick Bernie.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
And my question would be if Bernie wins what is accomplished within such a system? He might find himself unpopular with both sides like IMO Jimmy Carter did.
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Well, the idea is that this isn't just a presidential election, but the start of a new political paradigm.

If Mr. Sanders can occupy the Oval Office, we will have 2 years to prep for midterms. By then, if we can blossom, we can fill both houses of the Legislature with our own candidates (same way the Tea Party did in 2010, except we won't be doing it out of bigotry).

Then there will be plenty of cooperation. We can hold onto the machinery of governance indefinitely if we do it right.

mal3volent said:
I kind of hate Bernie for making me care about politics again. I feel like by tuesday night, i'll have passed my 5 year anniversary on bluelight and reverted back to my namesake personality trait.
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In attempts to moderate, they ask,
"Why we don't write love songs"
What is it that we sing, then?
Our love for life is total;
Everything we do is an expression of that,
Everything that we write is a love song!
 
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