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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Bernie Sanders

Anyone that thinks the plight of the non-rich in this country can be summed up with people wanting a "participation trophy" doesn't understand the American economy. At all.

A study was just done last week that revealed that there are literally no cities in the country where someone can afford a 2 bedroom apartment and utility bills just working 40 hours a week at a minimum wage job. Inflation has far outpaced wage inflation and everything costs more than most people can afford. Something crazy like 80% of the people in this country have less than $400 in savings. Saying all those people are just lazy or don't know how to save money is retarded.

There's a reason 90% of all new income in this country has gone to the top 1% over the past decade. The economy is rigged to funnel all the money to the already-rich by keeping everyone else in debt-prison and forced to work for unfair wages just to survive week-to-week. People aren't in a position to demand fair pay when being unemployed for even a short time would threaten their ability to survive.

The most ironic part about it all is that those rich people and their lobbyists have convinced people like droppersneck, who definitely isn't one of the "Haves," to defend the current system in their behalf and against his own interests. It's kind of sad.
 
I make slightly more than the average college grad ATM. But I work for a small tech start up which is doing well. Also I have been to Canada and seen all their great government services. No thanks, is all I have to say, I have worked hard to get to where I am at and free stuff for all is not attractive to me at all.
 
Like I said, you don't understand American domestic economics. At all.

If you could wrap your head around the issues I'm talking about you wouldn't be claiming it was "free stuff" or that it's not fair because you've "worked so hard" for what you have, which is basically nothing.
 
Lol gm you act like this is the first ever blame the rich campaign strategy ever ran. Work hard and worry about yourself. If you truly want to be the same as everyone else save up and move to a Scandinavian country. This is America and we have done pretty decently so far we just need some protectionist policies and a dash of nationalist pride to get back on track. Besides isn't America supposed to be great after your boy Barrie's last 7 years? :\
 
AGAIN, you obviously don't understand the economic conditions I'm talking about. You throw phrases around like "protectionist policies" because you read them in some shitty conservative article and you think you know you're talking about but you absolutely do not. It's extremely obvious you don't grasp the consequences of decades of our current economic setup. It's been explained to you multiple times by multiple people and you still. don't. get. it.

If your brain can't take all the little pieces people have been talking about on this topic and put them together to get an understanding of the overall picture of American Socioeconomics today, stop trying to comment on them. These things aren't up for debate. Nobody who knows wtf they're talking about denies them. Your conservative heroes simply pretend these facts don't exist so they never talk about them, but if they had to give an answer they say the same exact things I'm saying. The numbers don't lie. The rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting poorer: FACT. Minimum wage and wage inflation has not even remotely kept up with inflation: FACT. The vast majority of people in this country live paycheck-to-paycheck, is in a shit-ton of debt, and has less than $400 in savings: FACT. One in every five children in this country lives under the poverty line, which is like $17,000 a year for a family of four: FACT. There are many intentional characteristics of our economy that keep poor people poor and "working harder" is an extremely stupid answer to the question of how people can get out of poverty: FACT.

Just shut the fuck already. I don't understand how you can constantly post in these threads every single day when you clearly barely even have the most basic understanding of the things talked about here. You'd think after like, a week you'd realize the shit you say is foolish and I don't know? Maybe decide to try and learn more about this shit before posting again?
 
You're like the annoying little brother that keeps trying to butt into conversations between their older sibling and his/her friends. You heard them talking about something so you did a few Google searches to try and brush up on the topic and then the next time you hear them talking about it you try to act like some sort of authority on the matter. Just stop.
 
GenericMind said:
AGAIN, you obviously don't understand the economic conditions I'm talking about. You throw phrases around like "protectionist policies" because you read them in some shitty conservative article and you think you know you're talking about but you absolutely do not. It's extremely obvious you don't grasp the consequences of decades of our current economic setup. It's been explained to you multiple times by multiple people and you still. don't. get. it.

If your brain can't take all the little pieces people have been talking about on this topic and put them together to get an understanding of the overall picture of American Socioeconomics today, stop trying to comment on them. These things aren't up for debate. Nobody who knows wtf they're talking about denies them. Your conservative heroes simply pretend these facts don't exist so they never talk about them, but if they had to give an answer they say the same exact things I'm saying. The numbers don't lie. The rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting poorer: FACT. Minimum wage and wage inflation has not even remotely kept up with inflation: FACT. The vast majority of people in this country live paycheck-to-paycheck, is in a shit-ton of debt, and has less than $400 in savings: FACT. One in every five children in this country lives under the poverty line, which is like $17,000 a year for a family of four: FACT. There are many intentional characteristics of our economy that keep poor people poor and "working harder" is an extremely stupid answer to the question of how people can get out of poverty: FACT.

Just shut the fuck already. I don't understand how you can constantly post in these threads every single day when you clearly barely even have the most basic understanding of the things talked about here. You'd think after like, a week you'd realize the shit you say is foolish and I don't know? Maybe decide to try and learn more about this shit before posting again?
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The reason why politicians like trump or the teabaggers are so incredibly succesfull, is exactly because guys like droppers don't know or understand shit. It's the appeal to the intellectual and moral mediocrity of the so-called 'man on the street', that has become and a true and undisputed recipe for succes in politic's. See, guys like dropper know very well that they don't know and understand that much. People like him are the ones that never got excellent grades in school, even though they worked hard. They are generally not the most succesfull people in society. And they envy the ones who didn't have to study hard, but got better grades. Most of all, they envy the generally moral superior position taken by intellectuals. Guys like trump know very well how to tap that envy.
 
When will people learn that defending the rigged economy the rich have created IS NOT going to make they themselves rich? Droppers, your American Dream is a farce. I can pretty much guarantee you that you're going to leave this world no better odd than you are right now. Meanwhile, the ideas you're so vigorously defending are causing hundreds of millions of Americans to suffer.
 
It is imaginable how someone can defend the economy how it is..20 years ago my dad could make 50 grand a year and support the family of 4..we were living a comfortable lifestyle,always had presents,took trips,had a nice home..but I make about the same 48 grand a year now and can't live the same lifestyle? With no kids!! Barely have any extra money once rent,car payment,utilities,car and health insurance,food,etc are paid..it is fucking obvious we are goin down hill and wages are not going up as they should with the cost of living..end of argument
 
Droppersneck said:
Work hard and worry about yourself. If you truly want to be the same as everyone else save up and move to a Scandinavian country.
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That's fine I hope you earn enough to fund bodyguards so the poor don't kidnap you and string you up for your stuff when they get desperate enough.

This is America and we have done pretty decently so far we just need some protectionist policies and a dash of nationalist pride to get back on track. Besides isn't America supposed to be great after your boy Barrie's last 7 years? :\
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The golden age of America was during FDR and his "socialist" policies we started going to shit as soon as Reagan and his
deregulation, cut social safety nets, free market bullshit took hold.
 
Oh gm you think you have things figured out going to a Bernie rally and reading all the best propaganda/literature. Yeah you can't make a living on minimum wage bc literally anybody can do those jobs. It is on the individual to better themselves and make themselves more valuable to potential employers. Some have greater hardships to overcome but at least the opportunity is still there. The victim role is getting played hard in your entire 'I know the economy better than you bc I just know' shtick. We agree on the fact that disparity in income is a concern, but differ in our prescriptions to address the issue. Leaning heavily on corporations will make them leave quicker that is what we have seen. This ain't the 1930s and globalism is a real thing so yeah those jobs are more important than giving the government more money to misappropriate IMO. Growth of government and government dependence are more of a threat in my eyes than the poverty itself. As they perpetuate poverty and the idea of living in a state of ambitious less serfdom, that is so desired by global interests. "Free trade" and greed have gotten us where we are at now, Hilary Clinton and everything she stands for has gotten us where we are at. Just today my boss and I were looking at tariffs and seeing how sadly profitable it would be to go to China for manufacturing of hardware. End the humanitarian world jobs programs that are making world leaders and the fat cat oligarchs rich, and bring the wealth back home in the form of manufacturing jobs. Single incomes could support a family of four twenty years ago bc they were working semi skilled labor positions and not being a manager at Starbucks. The higher minimum wage argument is silly from an economic standpoint. And all the raising of it does is hurt semi skilled position and speeds up inflation. You can't possibly think that forcing burger flippers to make as much as a mechanic isn't going to have adverse effects? All I know is the free market will work itself out if allowed to :\
 
^or how about we pay everyone a living wage and the mechanic makes substantially more? Indeed it's not the 1930's anymore, society should be getting better and better. The solution also shouldn't be to make the conditions here the same as in China so you can have slave labor.

Also we've been over this those manufacturing jobs aren't going to come back. Not everyone can better themselves, eventually automation will get to the point where millions will be without job and they won't be ever to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. What is your suggestion other than "I got mine, sucks to be you, not my problem I earned it fuck off"

Eventually you'll end up at the end of a guillotine with that attitude.
 
The social revolution you all so yearn for just doesn't pass muster in my eyes well in most people that have been in the working force for a bits eyes, really. Your points have merit, but we are not there yet. You can go to college and get a useful degree and apply it then when making real wages that will pay off your investment and then some start a family. Misguided youth not going into the trades is a issue we have here in middle Tennessee. Can't find a good auto body painter and they are in high demand. You can easily make 6 figures out of the gate but the work is hot in the summer and very hard. I didn't get to where I am at by sticking with one job and keeping my fingers crossed. I payed off my student loans by moving from state to state for better opportunities sometimes leaning on family for support but mostly on my own. It sucks and it is hard/ you go without but it is what you have to do. Being the old man preaching the hard work doctrine gets old but somebody has got to do it before too many youth drink the kool aid Bernie is serving and we become the next Greece or Venezuela, Italy, or worst yet Cuba. America didn't become what it is with 6 week vacations , bankers holidays, and free lunches out the wazoo. Just sayin
 
I feel like I was close to baiting you into a 'working hard isn't fair and it is easier to blame life's problems on the rich' argument. Next time gm ;)

Btw I know you are a hard worker. Don't really care if you believe me but I am a college graduate working for a tech start up so the American Dream is within grasp so maybe this does make me a bit less apathetic/ optimistic.
 
GenericMind said:
You've never seen Idiocracy? It's proving to be a surprisingly prophetic movie due to the current election.
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At the time of filming they never thought things could get that way but since conditions in America have only become more ridiculous, its creators, Mike Judge and Etan Cohen have recently started calling it a Documentary.

Dropper, since you are in the tech field, are you following the candidates stances on H1B visas and outsourcing of tech jobs? The Clinton wants to abolish the current cap on H1B. What is Trump's position?
 
Actually socko out latest programmer is here but his team is out of India. Over all I am very much against the hb1 proposal as it will significantly devalue our domestic workforce which paid their dues getting the nessisary training to get that higher wage job. I don't know Hilary's stance but I am willing to bet she is for it even if she says she is against it.
 
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