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How to love being sober?? Like really love it?

simco said:
not a problem! my current clean state is like a game of three card monte.

peace.
Sim
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My clean state was exactly the same way for a long ass time. I was on sub for 5 years but I could never put together more than a couple months clean. I now realize that was because the suboxone didn't take away my obsession with opiates. My brain was still craving full agonist opiates and the partial agonist property of sub was just a nasty cock tease.
So I would bounce back and fourth from dope to sub. Use dope when I had money then go back to sub when I was broke. It wasn't a great situation but the sub did save my life by stopping me from doing crazy illegal stuff to get well when I was broke. It did all fall apart occasionally and was extremely painful for my family and friends.

My experience with methadone has been the opposite of that. Once I got to the right dose of methadone the obsession to use heroin virtually disappeared overnight. I still have cravings sometimes but they are not nearly as severe as on sub. They are more existential cravings of me missing that lifestyle instead of the crazy physical whitenuckle kind of cravings where I was down to do whatever to get dope. If that makes any sense.

I am way off topic here but I guess what I am trying to get across is that if suboxone isn't giving you the relief you need then you should really consider switching to methadone. I know methadone gets a bad rep but if you commit to the program and commit to doing a long slow taper when you decide to come off its about the same withdrawal as suboxone. Which is no joke I went through sub withdrawal and it was fucking gnarly bro. 30 days of acute sickness. yuck. I know I sound like a methadone salesman but I just want to spread my experience and counter the anti methadone propaganda because it has fucking saved my life. I was at the absolute end of my rope 11 months ago when I got on. I had failed rehab and suboxone multiple times and I had a huge habit once again.

so yeah just something to think about simco.
 
cj said:
My clean state was exactly the same way for a long ass time. I was on sub for 5 years but I could never put together more than a couple months clean. I now realize that was because the suboxone didn't take away my obsession with opiates. My brain was still craving full agonist opiates and the partial agonist property of sub was just a nasty cock tease.
So I would bounce back and fourth from dope to sub. Use dope when I had money then go back to sub when I was broke. It wasn't a great situation but the sub did save my life by stopping me from doing crazy illegal stuff to get well when I was broke. It did all fall apart occasionally and was extremely painful for my family and friends.

My experience with methadone has been the opposite of that. Once I got to the right dose of methadone the obsession to use heroin virtually disappeared overnight. I still have cravings sometimes but they are not nearly as severe as on sub. They are more existential cravings of me missing that lifestyle instead of the crazy physical whitenuckle kind of cravings where I was down to do whatever to get dope. If that makes any sense.

I am way off topic here but I guess what I am trying to get across is that if suboxone isn't giving you the relief you need then you should really consider switching to methadone. I know methadone gets a bad rep but if you commit to the program and commit to doing a long slow taper when you decide to come off its about the same withdrawal as suboxone. Which is no joke I went through sub withdrawal and it was fucking gnarly bro. 30 days of acute sickness. yuck. I know I sound like a methadone salesman but I just want to spread my experience and counter the anti methadone propaganda because it has fucking saved my life. I was at the absolute end of my rope 11 months ago when I got on. I had failed rehab and suboxone multiple times and I had a huge habit once again.

so yeah just something to think about simco.
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I'm so glad you found something that worked for you, and for sharing your experience. Part of what makes this site so great are all the different accounts of what people have tried - what worked, what didn't. Vivitrol gets a lot of hate too but it saved my life. There is no one singular treatment for addiction, and what works for some does nothing for others, so it's important to share both positive and negative experiences. I didn't read about Vivitrol before I started getting it - I was just desparate and it was something I hadn't tried previously. I'm so glad I didn't read user accounts about it as I never would have tried it, and I probably wouldn't be alive right now. Thx for sharing and congratulations!
 
I agree with CJ. Subs never worked for me I always slipped up on subs. When I started Methadone I was able to put together almost 2 years "clean". Today I'm 60 days clean of methadone and I finally feel free of this mess. No matter how bad it was getting off it was well worth it.

Everyone has their own path to sobriety CT Subs Meth Viv you just need to find yours. BL is a great place for support especially when there's nobody else that understands bc we do.
 
I had success with suboxone. It worked well for taper purposes IME

I could see how someone could potentially find it lacking long-term, though
 
it's really heartening to hear your stories, cj, xbg, and cc...thanks. i'll definitely give methadone some consideration. and actually vivitrol (or maybe oral naltrexone tabs) were what original brought me to the sub doc. amazing that there even *are* options now. a generation ago i'd have been even more fucked.

i find that if i take my subs *as directed* things go pretty smoothly. i've been under-dosing myself. partly due to valid reasoning (and good advice); partly, i think, because i want to feel that it's me in control of things. i'm gonna go back up to my Rx'd dosage for a while while i think through all this stuff.

i may hit folks up by PM from time to time... i can't tell you how helpful it is to get this kind of input. i feel totally in the dark otherwise.
 
CcLefty7822 said:
I agree with CJ. Subs never worked for me I always slipped up on subs. When I started Methadone I was able to put together almost 2 years "clean". Today I'm 60 days clean of methadone and I finally feel free of this mess. No matter how bad it was getting off it was well worth it.

Everyone has their own path to sobriety CT Subs Meth Viv you just need to find yours. BL is a great place for support especially when there's nobody else that understands bc we do.
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You can also try what I did. No opiate replacement. It isn't for everyone...mostly just us all or nothing users. If I take methadone it is only a short time before I am slamming h. It just doesn't satisfy me. I guess it is because I can stay clean if I am not triggering my opiate receptors....but the minute I do it causes a reaction in me.
 
I keep coming back to reply but unsure if the majority of replies are to simco or to me.

I had 14 or so years clean, and have now been on SUBOXONE and not using for 3 years, I still crave drugs and feel the subs are taking their toll. I did that 14 years completely clean and sober, the NA way, this time it's going to be a long time getting off my large BUPE dose ?. Im not ready but j am if that makes sense. I can't relapse, I'll lose everything.
 
AnythingEverything, are you feeling like you are ready for staying sober but not sure if you can handle it?

My current situation involves me willing to live a totally sober life but I truly know that I just need my DOC once in every few months to stay out of other drugs. For me the reality is a bit dull place even now when most of the pieces in my life have fallen in place and I want some variety into it. Hence I am not totally sober but much more sober if I would try a total abstinence from every drug if you guys understand what I mean.

Sometimes I think about using these substances every few months as using maintenance drugs but at the same time I think it would be gross to say that as those who use maintenance drugs won't mostly get any euphoria out of them.
 
I found the first couple of years sober to be very dull, and over time I have found life to be much more enjoyable and fulfilling. I think early on life seems boring in recovery because we have accustomed ourselves to on-demand dopamine spikes...spikes that are of an intensity that are not found in nature, and that we can administer ourselves at a frequency we desire, again not found in nature. It takes a long time for our brains to acclimate to natural dopamine releases.
 
AnythingEverything said:
I keep coming back to reply but unsure if the majority of replies are to simco or to me.

I had 14 or so years clean, and have now been on SUBOXONE and not using for 3 years, I still crave drugs and feel the subs are taking their toll. I did that 14 years completely clean and sober, the NA way, this time it's going to be a long time getting off my large BUPE dose ��. Im not ready but j am if that makes sense. I can't relapse, I'll lose everything.
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Why do you think suboxone is taking a toll on your body?
 
AnythingEverything said:
It's late (3am) and I'm sitting here reflecting. One day I will have to face being clean and sober again. At the moment I'm on huge amounts of suboxone (32mg) and a tiny amount of Benzos (20mg diazepam)..for a long time I've felt sober as the meds have no effect as in there is no high of courseds. And I'm liking it too much and can feel the pull and need to stop as it quickly became a daily thing again.

I did have 14 or 15 years completely clean and sober but had other addictions (eating disorders, shopping, smoking, coffee, even having babies - we have 5 who I love with all my heart, I was only sober for them.).

One day I will be off everything again, that is the ultimate goal but I think about getting high all the time. Even with all those years clean, I've never felt that joy or gratitude of being sober. Don't get me wrong, my life is awesome and my kids are amazing, I've just struggled with myself my whole life along with mental illness - I've never been 'happy' even though I have everything to live for.

Spending so many years in Na and hearing people talk about the joy they feel in recovery, I wonder if ill ever get there and I'm tired of fighting it. And yes, I've done therapy for 20 years give or take.

How do you get to that point where being sober feels better than being high? I'm always romantising heroin mainly even though I know where it takes me and what it would mean for my family. Can you ever truly get to the point of not wanting to live in reality and feel joy in recovery or do people just talk the talk? Not that I doubt others, I've just never felt it and want to. I don't want to look for means of escape my whole life.
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I think two things are fundamental. Energy and distraction. If you recover or have sufficient life/bodily energy and also have interesting distractions you will recover your reason to live without drugs. Otherwise it will be a miserable struggle that will likely be lost. My 2 cents.
 
ehh the few i know that seem to truly like being sober are absolute drug fiends when they were addicted..coke, heroin and benzos on the comedown..so for them sober life is much needed..its so fucking hard for me to really like and enjoy sober life especially since i have anhedonia..
 
belfort said:
ehh the few i know that seem to truly like being sober are absolute drug fiends when they were addicted..coke, heroin and benzos on the comedown..so for them sober life is much needed..its so fucking hard for me to really like and enjoy sober life especially since i have anhedonia..
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I've been so busy and haven't had the chancd to respond properly but will come back to all the other replies once the kids are in bed. But sober life is very much needed for me. As soon as I pick up anything im COMPLETLEY consumed. Back in the day it was meth and other drugs then Benzos and weed to come down. My last relapse was opiates/BENZOs/alcohol/pills. It's all or nothing for me and I have too much to lose to go back. The SUBOXONE and low dose of benzos are keeping me from using at the moment, just. But I just want to be happy and really really want sober life over drug fucked life. My kids deserve it and I will one day believe I do. Im only clean for them. Im one of the 'one's too many and 1000 is not enough' breed also unfortunately.
 
cj said:
Why do you think suboxone is taking a toll on your body?
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I just feel it's sucking the life out of me. Im alwahs tired, sick, disinterested, lifeless really. I still pick muself up and go to the gym but after being on such a large dose for three years i can feel it. Not just physically but mentally and emotionally too more to the point. I look lifeless, even my teeth, which I know is generally more associated with methadone, are suffering. I've never even had a cavity before, not even after 20 years of bulimia and a lot of meth use and not really looking after myself, now they are super sensitive, I can't eat anything sugary or cold without being in pain. Just lots of different ways. I wonder if I'll ever get back to normal, whatever that is.
 
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Cosmic Trigger said:
I think two things are fundamental. Energy and distraction. If you recover or have sufficient life/bodily energy and also have interesting distractions you will recover your reason to live without drugs. Otherwise it will be a miserable struggle that will likely be lost. My 2 cents.
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But that's the thing. I have SO much to live for. A husband and 5 amazing kids who I feel blessed by every single day. We have everything we need plus more. I also do gym which I love and have started dancing again, have friends and other hobbies. It's me that's the problem. Hoping the DBT will bring some breakthrough.
 


But that's the thing. I have SO much to live for. A husband and 5 amazing kids who I feel blessed by every single day. We have everything we need plus more. I also do gym which I love and have started dancing again, have friends and other hobbies. It's me that's the problem. Hoping the DBT will bring some breakthrough.[/QUOTE]

That's great AnythingEverything! Family and activities are important to recovery. The last time I got out of rehab, I made sure to have activities lined up for the evenings. Ironically, it was my husband who signed us up for ballroom dance and we have been doing it ever since. It allows us to get dressed up and got out some evenings, be active and socialize, and the focus is not on food or substance. Though I am not over weight, I can self medicate and obsess over food and it kickstarts unhealthy mindsets.

What kind of dance do you do? I've been thinking about going back to ballet to regain some lost muscle when I lost so much weight in benzo withdrawal. Would love to do the gym but I am not disciplined enough to go consistently and I end up not using the membership lol.
 
Moreaux said:
But that's the thing. I have SO much to live for. A husband and 5 amazing kids who I feel blessed by every single day. We have everything we need plus more. I also do gym which I love and have started dancing again, have friends and other hobbies. It's me that's the problem. Hoping the DBT will bring some breakthrough.
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That's great AnythingEverything! Family and activities are important to recovery. The last time I got out of rehab, I made sure to have activities lined up for the evenings. Ironically, it was my husband who signed us up for ballroom dance and we have been doing it ever since. It allows us to get dressed up and got out some evenings, be active and socialize, and the focus is not on food or substance. Though I am not over weight, I can self medicate and obsess over food and it kickstarts unhealthy mindsets.

What kind of dance do you do? I've been thinking about going back to ballet to regain some lost muscle when I lost so much weight in benzo withdrawal. Would love to do the gym but I am not disciplined enough to go consistently and I end up not using the membership lol.[/QUOTE]

Sorry lovely, I promise I was coming back to reply to your first comment, was just working from the bottom up, just got kids to bed.)

My thing is, I got clean because I fell pregnant at 21, my 13th step baby ;). I was in and out of recovery and had just gotten out of rehab but was relapsing all the time, thankfully I was 2 weeks clean when I fell pregnant but I definurely would have gone back to Heroin if it wasn't for my son. Then I stayed clean when we got married and had 4 more lovely kids, thay was a no brainer for me. The moment I stopped feeding my 5th child, I relapsed. I realised I had never gotten clean for myself, always for the kids . And that's my struggle now, finding enoigh self worth to want it for myself, not just my family. But I am very thankful for them, I'd be dead otherwise.

I have had eating disorders for over 20 years and only a year into recovery now. Food or weight or image obsession was my major underlying addiction. Thankfully I've always maintained my weight and enjoy exercise (it was my job for over ten years) so it's part of my life always. I would LOVE to do ballroom dancing! Are you enjoying it? It was actually something we talked about doing together when we moved back to the city last year, you're right, some nice and healthy fun and an excuse to get out. Thanks for the reminder, I must get on to that:)

I've gone back to ballet with my sister :) Would like to go back to jazz and tap too, or contemporary but with my 9 year old daughter dancing and singing at least 25 hours per week (costing nearly $400 a week) one son travelling to spain in a few werks for soccer and all the other kids activities, time and money is scarce. Im also going to start going to 'dancing in the dark' which is a local thing on a thurdsay night you just go and let loose, in an alcohol free setting, and it's only $5. Im rambling!

You so should go back to ballet!! If it's something you love it csn only be good. I love gym and dancing but you have to do the kind of exercise you enjoy to be able to maintain it. doooo it!!! Gosh, I lost 5 kilos or so in my rapid Benzo withdeawl too. And I didn't put on weight being on them, just lost weight coming off such a large dose so quickly. It's full on hey? Keep me updated if you go back to ballet! So good you're doing ballroom. We just need someone to look after kiddies. My husbajd isn't very social so we never do anything which is a constant source of frustration as I need that. And I do, but would like to do more with him

Sorry for rambling!
 
We love ballroom dancing - it's so much fun. We've finally gotten decent enough that we can go out to regular dances. It's probably one of the healthiest activities I've done as an adult. I would love to do ballet again but just don't have enough time or money lol. I put us into a lot of debt with my addiction so I'm trying to focus on getting out of debt. I feel guilty spending money on myself.

Are there any activities that your husband does that interest you, or anything he's wants to do that interests you? I think it's really important to do activities together, otherwise the relationship gets to routine. My husband and I actually work together, dance, and golf, so we're rarely apart. His kids are grown and I never had any so it's just us and the kitties. We've been together for four years, and it's by far the healthiest relationship I have had. I think because we're always together we're always connected, where as in previous relationships it was easy to disconnect from the other person, particularly with the addiction.

Is your husband an addict - in recovery or otherwise? Mine has never had substance issues and that has really helped me adjust to sobriety and see what a normal person does in daily life. I never realized how different my lifestyle we lol. He knew I was an addict before we started dating, and has been really patient and understanding about that aspect of my life.
 
That's really good. We dont really share any interests at all, we've been together 16 years. He doesn't really do anythinf except work and play music. I sinf and would love to sing with him but it's something he has always done alone, his passion. When I suggested the ballroom dancing he was keen but it hasn't happened and won't unless i initiate it, which is also hard bevause so much tkme is taken up with the kids activities and allowing them to follow their dreams plus we don't have anuone to look after them while we do stuff. I don't crave time away from my kids, im one or those mums that counts down until the school hplidays instead of complaining about them, best time of the year, but I do with my husband and I would do something/anything together on our own. EVerything has been about the kids for so long (and rightly so having 5 over ten years) but we need couple time. Noting ever happens unless i initiate it, im quite bored, I need more. He's just happy to work and be at home, I need to spend time with friends most days, I can't just be at home all the time:

No, he's the complete opposite of an addict, mr moderation but has always been around addiction and absolutely hates it and has no time for it. He works in the field as a counseller.
 
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