Regional Pills/MD(M)A Discussion V. I don't understand this chemical waffle

[ClemFandango]

Yeah...eye rolling and a shit-tonne of energy and euphoria. I still had a buzz 10 hours later and didn't go to bed until 6am the next morning. Even then I was still buzzing and feeling good. Unusual but I'm not complaining, so I stocked up on them.

Many on here weren't a fan though, so make of that what you will. Brain chemistry and all that.

Were you around in the early or mid-nineties to know what pill quality was like?

Paradoxically, the MDMA that's around now makes me feel slightly depressed while 'high' on it. Then I feel a bit of a mood-lift during the comedown.

I'm considering buying some of this 'Manchester' blend. See if it lives up to the hype, or is it just slightly better than shit.

 

[andy-777]

Smashed as in what you see in the warehouse party vids from late 80s early 90s?

Looking at old videos is hardly a scientific measure of pill quality...there are numerous other factors which can explain many of the differences, and I speak as someone who was around and taking pills during that period.

I've said on here before that the dutch pills give me loads of empathy and I can dance all night off one, my friends are the same, so if there is a difference in pill quality its nowhere near what some on here are suggesting. When I read people on here bosting they've taken over 10 pills in a weekend, that to me is the much more likely root of the problem for them...tolerance issues.

 

[Psilocydustbin]

I've said on here before that the dutch pills give me loads of empathy and I can dance all night off one, my friends are the same, so if there is a difference in pill quality its nowhere near what some on here are suggesting. When I read people on here bosting they've taken over 10 pills in a weekend, that to me is the much more likely root of the problem for them...tolerance issues.

I agree with this. I have been doing pills since 98, so not as long as you but still for a fair old time. Back then lots of pills were mdxx cocktails and contained speed etc, whereas now most "good" pills are mdma only. I remember at the time MDMA Crystal was more of a luxury item, much more expensive than pills. Whenever people had it they always said they didn't get as much energy as doing pills. Whenever I marquis tested pills they pretty much always flashed orange and then straight to purple/ black.

I used to be a heavy user of pills and MDMA . A few years ago I got bad depression and was on anti depressants for a year and didn't take any drugs bar the ocassional spliff. I am over all that now, and have been having better experiences from a single Dutch bean done in halves (eg black Dom Perignon)than anything I took in the few years before this period. I think I was burnt out from too many too often. I actually have one theory that the course of antidepressants and long break somehow rebuilt the level of seratonin in my brain permanently.

Obviously the early days of taking them were the best as they were a novelty and the scene was a lot better than it is these days. Too many Geordie shore poser cunts these days so the vibe will never be as good.

 

[BecomingJulie]

Looking at old videos is hardly a scientific measure of pill quality...there are numerous other factors which can explain many of the differences, and I speak as someone who was around and taking pills during that period.

I've said on here before that the dutch pills give me loads of empathy and I can dance all night off one, my friends are the same, so if there is a difference in pill quality its nowhere near what some on here are suggesting. When I read people on here bosting they've taken over 10 pills in a weekend, that to me is the much more likely root of the problem for them...tolerance issues.

Nail. Head. Bang.

While there's no doubt that different ratios of isomers would produce different effects, and the synthesis route would have a bearing on this, it's simply the case that people are getting harder to satisfy.

In the early 1990s, there was no Internet, only four TV channels (and a VCR if you were lucky), unemployment was rife, houses were cheap and mortgages were expensive, the Iron Curtain was falling and Nelson Mandela was still in prison. Pills also were expensive, and you had to know where to get hold of them; and it would be entirely normal to take half a pill at the beginning of the night and the rest of it later, and that would be your lot. It was also new and a bit of a cult phenomenon. Compared to today, that adds up to one hell of a difference in S&S.

Taking ecstasy probably is never going to be as magical is it used to be. It's just another case of familiarity breeding contempt. Why make a conscious effort of will to make the best of what you've taken, when you can just neck another pill?

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Just in case no one has seen and of course details very limited but MasterCards are being stated

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/victoria-warehouse-ecstasy-pill-11271658

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Nail. Head. Bang.

While there's no doubt that different ratios of isomers would produce different effects, and the synthesis route would have a bearing on this, it's simply the case that people are getting harder to satisfy.

In the early 1990s, there was no Internet, only four TV channels (and a VCR if you were lucky), unemployment was rife, houses were cheap and mortgages were expensive, the Iron Curtain was falling and Nelson Mandela was still in prison. Pills also were expensive, and you had to know where to get hold of them; and it would be entirely normal to take half a pill at the beginning of the night and the rest of it later, and that would be your lot. It was also new and a bit of a cult phenomenon. Compared to today, that adds up to one hell of a difference in S&S.

Taking ecstasy probably is never going to be as magical is it used to be. It's just another case of familiarity breeding contempt. Why make a conscious effort of will to make the best of what you've taken, when you can just neck another pill?

No.

For a start you're replying to a shill, a dealer who comes on here to big up his pills.

And what the fuck has Nelson Mandela (released Feb 1990) got to do with it? Not to mention the Berlin Wall, by far the biggest symbol of the Iron Curtain falling, coming down in November 1989.

Before roughly 1990 all pills were magical because the crims hadn't moved in to skank off profit. After that, if you weren't lucky enough to have a trusted dealer, you may have come across copies and adulterated pills. However, top quality full of magic pills were still widely available. No loss of magic because the pills were quality. No one mentioned tolerance. Guess why?

The first proper shift came in early 1997 and is entirely down to production method changes. Following a three month drought, pills came back that just weren't the same.

Of course, many, many people who had been using ecstasy for years could all have come to a tolerance spike all at the same time. But I know what I believe.

Set and setting is not the driving factor here. Changes in production methods are. And I was there from the start.

Everything after that is variations on the same theme. With gradual worsening of quality. That's not to say set and setting haven't played a small part. But mortgages and house prices are not the driving factor. Get real and stop listening to the shill.

 

[Shambles]

Just in case no one has seen and of course details very limited but MasterCards are being stated

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/victoria-warehouse-ecstasy-pill-11271658

Thing I've never really understood about tragic events like these is why it is almost always only one person who is effected. Such a severe reaction suggests PMMA but if so you'd expect far more cases coming to light even if not all fatal. The mind boggles at the mentality of anybody who presses PMMA pills. I'd say anybody caught for doing so should be looking at attempted murder charges cos it's not like they don't know what they're doing. No excuse.

 

[Shambles]

Everything after that is variations on the same theme. With gradual worsening of quality. That's not to say set and setting haven't played a small part. But mortgages and house prices are not the driving factor. Get real and stop listening to the shill.

I must say I've kinda come around to this view myself. S&S definitely does play a part but I do think it is now undeniable that there is a difference with modern-day pills/xtal. As Treacle mentioned above, there is simply no way pills should be dosed in the multiple hundred mgs unless specifically designed to be split. Whilst I don't have as much of an issue with recent pills (I don't think they are terrible in and of themselves) they are definitely different to years ago. Obviously I'm talking in general terms and I'm sure there are exceptions but the megadosed Dutch pills do tend to feel very heavy and - quite frankly - soporific. I find S&S does make a noticeable difference to the experience with the same batch of pills but it's not enough to account for the overall change in effects.

 

[andy-777]

No.

For a start you're replying to a shill, a dealer who comes on here to big up his pills.

You can't actually argue with the point I made so instead you try and dismiss me as a dealer...something I'm not. I've posted replies when people have asked about a pill I've tried personally, nothing more. I don't sell pills or md.

Its interesting that I'm not alone in having positive experiences of current pills, and its pretty disappointing that you try and close down others opinions just because they don't fit the view that you and some others have of the current crop of pills and md. I'm happy to accept that there may be some difference, though I'd love to see actual evidence of what that difference is, but for me the magic is still there...I wouldn't be still taking pills if it wasn't.

 

[andy-777]

Nail. Head. Bang.

While there's no doubt that different ratios of isomers would produce different effects, and the synthesis route would have a bearing on this, it's simply the case that people are getting harder to satisfy.

In the early 1990s, there was no Internet, only four TV channels (and a VCR if you were lucky), unemployment was rife, houses were cheap and mortgages were expensive, the Iron Curtain was falling and Nelson Mandela was still in prison. Pills also were expensive, and you had to know where to get hold of them; and it would be entirely normal to take half a pill at the beginning of the night and the rest of it later, and that would be your lot. It was also new and a bit of a cult phenomenon. Compared to today, that adds up to one hell of a difference in S&S.

Taking ecstasy probably is never going to be as magical is it used to be. It's just another case of familiarity breeding contempt. Why make a conscious effort of will to make the best of what you've taken, when you can just neck another pill?

Thanks...nice to know I'm not alone in my experiences, and I get exactly what you mean about the environment at that time...it was a different world haha

 

[BigG]

If anyone has read Howard Marks new book Mr Smiley (which incidentally I've just finished and was pretty disapointed with) it gives a good insight in to the MDMA trade in the 90s and 00s and would be a good read for anyone who is interested in this debate....

Some very good info on where the drugs come from and who controls the trade...

Just dont expect it to be another Mr Nice......cos unfortunately it aint

 

[Treacle]

It's weird, because despite my distain for new MDMA, one decent pill (UFOs, etc.), and I'm absolutely off my face, whilst Dutch pills just make me want to sleep. I'd like to know how that's a tolerance issue, and why everyone that has taken proper pills says they really don't care for the Dutch pills (including friends that are new to pills). It's funny, because lab tests were regularly posted on here, and most pills were MDMA/MDA only, or a mix of the two, and hardly any contained speed, or other drugs. If you can't tell the difference, you've never had proper MDMA. I'm done with this debate now, I've been saying it since 2010, when the 'super pill' landed and everyone were raving about them.

Had the purple Teslas again last night and had a decent time on them. Quite lovey, with some energy to the experience and music appreciation was definitely increased. Didn't mong out, until about 6am, when I was knackered. Definitely worth trying.

 

[PocketLady]

Treacle - A few days ago you said the purple Teslas were quite mongy, and were the usual Dutch stuff, but now you are saying they are decent? Does this not go to show how much other factors can affect a roll?

 

[andy-777]

Treacle - A few days ago you said the purple Teslas were quite mongy, and were the usual Dutch stuff, but now you are saying they are decent? Does this not go to show how much other factors can affect a roll?

Yeah and aren't the purple teslas dutch and a fairly high md content too? You seem to be contradicting your own argument there Treacle.

And its a poor argument if you're suggesting that those who enjoy current pills "never had proper MDMA" because you're just completely wrong on that for me personally, and for some others too I expect.

Whilst keeping an open mind, I've tried to give an honest input to the debate but it seems that several people on here take any alternative view as something to be rubbished rather than examined

 

[pothole]

Andy have you tried an early 90's pill? If you have you have to admit that something is different. Not saying the pills now are shit (I still enjoy today's pills) but the old pills were better.

 

[ScotchMist]

Treacle - A few days ago you said the purple Teslas were quite mongy, and were the usual Dutch stuff, but now you are saying they are decent? Does this not go to show how much other factors can affect a roll?

Its because those purple Teslas passed through Manchester. The Manchester crew dusted the "dutch" off, and then sprinkled its renowned "magic" on them....

Don't you guys know anything about magic chemistry 8(

 

[Treacle]

I'm not sure why I'm getting cross-examined for a couple of reports on the same pill. As stated, I fell asleep whilst coming up, when I had one the other day, but being with a mate last night helped me stay alert and feeling happy. I still wasn't bouncing about; more like sitting there with my eyes rolling about, but still chatty. Wasn't it the orange Teslas that were decent, and therefore the purple ones could be? I'm sick to fucking death of this debate. I think I've put enough effort in, and enough people agree with my viewpoint for me to stop chiming into this thread. If I come across anything magical, I'll mention it.

 

[Small_town_casual]

Purple teslas aren't made by the same crew that made the orange ones, anyone can make them, can buy the die on eBay, but you are contradicting yourself there treacle.

Yes there is a noticeable difference but it seems that there are a lot of sheep on here and if someone says a certain pill is good then it must be and everyone goes mad for them (like them pink nipples, that then went mongy 8) )

And Stonehappymonday, show a bit of respect and common sense, you don't call someone a DD on the Internet with no evidence what so ever, really isn't cool that, as good as grassing. What about those saying "oh the AMGs are like old skool ones" and the rainbow drops and now mini coopers and completely slagging and writing off the Dutch ones, that to me sounds more like someone punting!

Just seems like anyone that disagrees with what a certain few say about Dutch pills they get labelled idiots that know nothing.

 

[andy-777]

Andy have you tried an early 90's pill? If you have you have to admit that something is different. Not saying the pills now are shit (I still enjoy today's pills) but the old pills were better.

Yes, I first came across pills in 1989. Are the pills different today? Yes, there may be differences, but I'm certainly different and the times are also very different too. I only take pills/md in clubs and that environment has changed so much. So its very difficult to give you a definitive answer on comparisons, but I still get that loved up feeling and loads of energy. I couldn't dance all night if the current pills were as mongy as some seem to find them.

I don't like to use analogies, but when I first smoked hash it used to make us roll about giggling followed by attacks of the munchies. Decades later that's no longer the case...so is it the drug that's changed or me?

I've said on here before that over the years I've seen people who've abused md seem to end up that it no longer works for them, and I think this definitely plays a big part in this debate. I just find it a bit irritating that people are stating as a fact that all current pills and md are duff when for me and others that's just not true.

 

[Bearlove]

Yes, I first came across pills in 1989. Are the pills different today? Yes, there may be differences, but I'm certainly different and the times are also very different too. I only take pills/md in clubs and that environment has changed so much. So its very difficult to give you a definitive answer on comparisons, but I still get that loved up feeling and loads of energy. I couldn't dance all night if the current pills were as mongy as some seem to find them.

I don't like to use analogies, but when I first smoked hash it used to make us roll about giggling followed by attacks of the munchies. Decades later that's no longer the case...so is it the drug that's changed or me?

I've said on here before that over the years I've seen people who've abused md seem to end up that it no longer works for them, and I think this definitely plays a big part in this debate. I just find it a bit irritating that people are stating as a fact that all current pills and md are duff when for me and others that's just not true.

I love this post. You have to remember that a lot of people simply do not know what raving and MDMA feels like though. It's not about MG's its about the fun.