chemicaldiscovery
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2015
- Messages
- 51
I apologize in advance I may have been a little heavy on the background but I want to offer as much information to help figure out what caused this reaction.
Ok so a few background details. I am a 30 year old male, my fiance is a 28 year old female. She consumes ~20g of kratom daily and does not use any other drugs or smoke cannabis. She drinks occasionally, usually wine. I currently consume ~15g of kratom daily had just started a taper to bring down my intake around the time of this first roll. I also smoke cannabis daily and only drink on very rare occasions. We both weigh around 130-145 lbs. Her 28th birthday was April 8. For her birthday we found a really funky airbnb in an art and music studio and I procured a gram of MDMA. We really wanted to roll at home but couldn't because my best friend is our next door neighbor. The backdoor of our apartments literally touch and we didn't want to tell him and we didn't want to feel uncomfortable or trapped inside while rolling. Neither of us had rolled in over 7 years but had each rolled many times in our youth. Both of us have gone through periods where we foolishly rolled every weekend for a couple months. Neither of us ever had any adverse effects from MDMA or even untested "ecstasy" tablets other than a little bit of the blues. Still with a break of over 7 years I figured I should just trust the literature and go with the standard 120mg to start and a 40mg booster. So on April 8 we rolled. I ended up starting with 123 mg and she was a little nervous and decided to take only 109 mg. After two hours we both boosted with 40mg each. We rolled and had a great time but I felt that my roll was a little lackluster. I couldn't really explain why but just that I didn't get there all the way. The only hiccup was while having sex in the hot tub, I was smoking a bowl and she decided she wanted to take a couple hits to enhance her roll. Keep in mind she hadn't smoked weed at all in over 5 years. Needless to say, we continued having sex and within a couple minutes she became really paranoid and decided we needed to go inside. Once inside she started freaking out. It was a normal too-stoned paranoia bugout for someone in her situation with her tolerance. I was very calm and reassuring with her and it passed and she was able to enjoy the tail end of her roll. We cuddled and fell asleep. We had no comedown and the next day relaxed and recuperated enjoying a nice afterglow. Overall it was a great experience but I spent a few days doing research because I was unsure if my lackluster experience was due to too low of a dose (I tend to be insensitive to most drugs and have a much higher starting tolerance than most people) or if the kratom had some sort of a blocking effect on the MDMA. I couldn't find much information on the latter so I was able to rule that out, especially since kratom has always gone well with psychedelics in my experience. So I went to ecstasydata.org and dove into the archives and found some of the pills that I used to take as a teen and in my early 20s and was shocked to find that some of the pills that I'd been rolling on (and sometimes on a few) had contained from 150-200mg each in some instances. So I decided that I would take a higher dose next time. My fiances roll was much better than mine but she still felt like it was a little weak and she could have done more. We planned to wait a few months but on Saturday our friend/neighbor made a spur of the moment decision to take a trip 3 hours away to visit some friends. We decided to roll on Sunday. It would only leave 9 days between rolls but we figured that we hadn't rolled in so long and had taken modest doses and we didn't know when we'd have the opportunity to roll at home again and this combined with the fact that we weren't completely content with our last roll swayed us into making this decision. A few days after the first roll I started taking St. John's wort. I took 600mg in two 300mg doses on Thursday and Friday and then 450mg Saturday morning. It greatly helped with the withdrawal symptoms I was experiencing from my kratom taper. My fiance took 300mg on Friday morning and 300 mg on Saturday morning. When we made the decision on Saturday to roll Sunday we didn't take any more St. John's wort in case of a bad interaction with SJW being a mild MAOI. Sunday morning we went to Church and then had a light meal and a few hours later we decided to roll. As I said earlier we decided to take higher doses because it was so soon since our last roll and because our last roll had felt weak. Also in my case because I had learned that all the rolls I had taken in my life had been substantially higher doses than this last one. At 2:42 pm she took 139mg and I took 175mg. This was a 1g crystal crushed into powder and weighed out into a capsule that was just dumped in the mouth and knocked back with a few sips of apple juice for me and the fiance used the Shulgin method and just dumped hers into the juice itself. We took a walk and then took a shower together and before long we were enjoying a nice roll. The come up was rough on me, as it always is, especially on higher doses. After about an hour and a half I threw up and then took 5 g of kratom and felt 100x better. At this point we were both starting to peak and totally enjoying our rolls, although she had come up faster and was about 30 min ahead of me even though we dosed at the same time. At 4:40 pm we redosed with 60mg each, both of us just bombed them this time, same way, dumped out of the capsule and knocked back with apple juice. We redosed again at 6:00 pm another 60mg each, in the same way. Basically we had a great roll. We were happy and loving and we had super deep meaningful conversations that would be very difficult for us to have normally. We both agree that it was definitely the best roll of our lives and she also said she had never rolled as hard as she did yesterday. Sometime around 9:00pm I was taking some bong rips and she asked me to give her a half a shottie. She was already coming down and I figured it was a lot less than last time so she should be fine. I ended up giving her two little half shotties and she got slightly toasted but was fine and in a great mood still. We sat down on the couch to talk and maybe cuddle as we were coming down. Earlier in the day I had bought some 100mg 5-htp to take as a postload and figured that now would be a good time to take that. I took one and she took one. Immediately after swallowing the pill she got up and went to the bathroom. On her way back to the living room she stopped in the hallway. I just happened to be standing right there when she mumbled something about her head rushing and closed her eyes. I moved to her and hugged her asking her what's wrong. She groaned and said her head was rushing and then she slumped her shoulder against the wall. I caught her and lowered her to the ground. She was shaking her head slightly with her eyes closed and her jaw clenched. My immediate thought was that she was having a seizure. My instinct was to pry her jaw open and check that her tongue was in a safe location. I know that you aren't supposed to do this but I've been in this situation with friends many times in the past (never from MDMA) and I always figure I can take a scar on my fingers (and have) to save a friend's tongue. Anyway what was weird is that I didn't have to fight her jaw open. Her mouth just opened and as soon as I stuck my fingers in her mouth her eyes popped open and she was looking at me like "Why the fuck are your fingers in my mouth?" This whole thing took maybe 2-3 seconds. I helped her up and explained to her what was happening. I helped her to the couch where she sat down. She felt weird and had lost hearing in her right ear. She was really scared and freaked out but seemed normal. She drank some water and her hearing came back and then we decided to try and walk around. By the time we had walked the 15 feet from the couch to the backdoor she started mumbling about the rushing again and started to lose her balance. I caught her and sat her down and quickly she came back to normal. After sitting for a minute we decided to start and walk back to the couch quickly and sit down before this happened again. By the time we got to the couch she had started feeling this rushing and this feeling like she was about to lose consciousness. I was unsure if what she had experienced the first time was a seizure or just a blackout and the shaking and teeth grinding was just the effect of a lot of MDMA on someone intolerant who had dosed 9 days earlier. We were unsure what to do and looked some things up online. She felt fine sitting down and found more than anything else what she felt was scared that something was seriously wrong but no serious symptoms except when she stood for more than 30 seconds she would get that rushing and lose hearing in her right ear, the rushing would stop upon sitting down but the hearing would take a few minutes to come back each time. The rest of the evening we moved about the apartment like this from the couch to the toilet to the bed and so on, always with me walking with her bracing her incase she went limp. She never did but she was always starting to feel a head rushing by the time we were about to sit down (all of these spots are close to eachother and more or less equidistant) She seemed to be progressively getting better and everything we read said that it's ok for someone to sleep after a seizure as long as they become alert again and stay awake for a few hours after it. So around 11 pm she tried to sleep laying on me. I stayed awake for a few hours constantly checking that she was breathing and sleeping normally. She slept normally except she twitched a little bit more than normal (she always twitches in her sleep). Today she has felt beat up and it's definitely been a recovery day but she can stand and walk and everything. She gets a little lightheaded for a moment when she stands but in a normal hangover way, not like last night. She ate two pieces of bread with PB&J this morning and a chocolate protein shake and an anti oxidant fruit shake. She seems to be beat up but more or less fine and recovering. We just really want to know what happened and how to avoid it. I gave so much background so that i included what, to me, are the most probable culprits. It seems like it might have been mild Serotonin Syndrome. I would like anyone's opinion on what the cause could have been. I don't know if maybe the SJW was taken too soon before the roll but it was only taken for 2 days and only 600mg total and not taken for over 24 hours before dosing so this seems unlikely to me. I have read reports of people taking 5-htp like we did during the comedown and this causing Serotonin Syndrome but most of these reports involved people who were rolling very often and were taking 5-htp daily, both of which don't apply to her. Also it doesn't seem likely to me that the pill could have even digested, much less been absorbed and processed in the 2-5 minutes between her taking it and the incident. Then there is the weed. I have read reports of weed setting off Serotonin Syndrome when used in combination with MDMA SJW and 5-htp. This one is hard to believe to me because in my experience weed goes well with everything but thats just my anecdotal experience and I understand everyone is different. No matter what it was it is something specific to her body chemistry as I did everything the same and even took more MDMA than her and had a great time with no comedown. To me it seems most likely that it was taking it so soon after the last time and maybe a total of 270mg (over the whole day) was just too much for her. Please share your experiences and advice as we really need reassurance to to figure out exactly what caused this so that we can be safe in the future. Suffice to say that she won't be using SJW or 5-htp the same month as a roll again but we still want to know what caused this. Please feel free to ask me for any more details as I just typed this out very quickly and I am tired so I may have forgotten something. Thanks all!
Ok so a few background details. I am a 30 year old male, my fiance is a 28 year old female. She consumes ~20g of kratom daily and does not use any other drugs or smoke cannabis. She drinks occasionally, usually wine. I currently consume ~15g of kratom daily had just started a taper to bring down my intake around the time of this first roll. I also smoke cannabis daily and only drink on very rare occasions. We both weigh around 130-145 lbs. Her 28th birthday was April 8. For her birthday we found a really funky airbnb in an art and music studio and I procured a gram of MDMA. We really wanted to roll at home but couldn't because my best friend is our next door neighbor. The backdoor of our apartments literally touch and we didn't want to tell him and we didn't want to feel uncomfortable or trapped inside while rolling. Neither of us had rolled in over 7 years but had each rolled many times in our youth. Both of us have gone through periods where we foolishly rolled every weekend for a couple months. Neither of us ever had any adverse effects from MDMA or even untested "ecstasy" tablets other than a little bit of the blues. Still with a break of over 7 years I figured I should just trust the literature and go with the standard 120mg to start and a 40mg booster. So on April 8 we rolled. I ended up starting with 123 mg and she was a little nervous and decided to take only 109 mg. After two hours we both boosted with 40mg each. We rolled and had a great time but I felt that my roll was a little lackluster. I couldn't really explain why but just that I didn't get there all the way. The only hiccup was while having sex in the hot tub, I was smoking a bowl and she decided she wanted to take a couple hits to enhance her roll. Keep in mind she hadn't smoked weed at all in over 5 years. Needless to say, we continued having sex and within a couple minutes she became really paranoid and decided we needed to go inside. Once inside she started freaking out. It was a normal too-stoned paranoia bugout for someone in her situation with her tolerance. I was very calm and reassuring with her and it passed and she was able to enjoy the tail end of her roll. We cuddled and fell asleep. We had no comedown and the next day relaxed and recuperated enjoying a nice afterglow. Overall it was a great experience but I spent a few days doing research because I was unsure if my lackluster experience was due to too low of a dose (I tend to be insensitive to most drugs and have a much higher starting tolerance than most people) or if the kratom had some sort of a blocking effect on the MDMA. I couldn't find much information on the latter so I was able to rule that out, especially since kratom has always gone well with psychedelics in my experience. So I went to ecstasydata.org and dove into the archives and found some of the pills that I used to take as a teen and in my early 20s and was shocked to find that some of the pills that I'd been rolling on (and sometimes on a few) had contained from 150-200mg each in some instances. So I decided that I would take a higher dose next time. My fiances roll was much better than mine but she still felt like it was a little weak and she could have done more. We planned to wait a few months but on Saturday our friend/neighbor made a spur of the moment decision to take a trip 3 hours away to visit some friends. We decided to roll on Sunday. It would only leave 9 days between rolls but we figured that we hadn't rolled in so long and had taken modest doses and we didn't know when we'd have the opportunity to roll at home again and this combined with the fact that we weren't completely content with our last roll swayed us into making this decision. A few days after the first roll I started taking St. John's wort. I took 600mg in two 300mg doses on Thursday and Friday and then 450mg Saturday morning. It greatly helped with the withdrawal symptoms I was experiencing from my kratom taper. My fiance took 300mg on Friday morning and 300 mg on Saturday morning. When we made the decision on Saturday to roll Sunday we didn't take any more St. John's wort in case of a bad interaction with SJW being a mild MAOI. Sunday morning we went to Church and then had a light meal and a few hours later we decided to roll. As I said earlier we decided to take higher doses because it was so soon since our last roll and because our last roll had felt weak. Also in my case because I had learned that all the rolls I had taken in my life had been substantially higher doses than this last one. At 2:42 pm she took 139mg and I took 175mg. This was a 1g crystal crushed into powder and weighed out into a capsule that was just dumped in the mouth and knocked back with a few sips of apple juice for me and the fiance used the Shulgin method and just dumped hers into the juice itself. We took a walk and then took a shower together and before long we were enjoying a nice roll. The come up was rough on me, as it always is, especially on higher doses. After about an hour and a half I threw up and then took 5 g of kratom and felt 100x better. At this point we were both starting to peak and totally enjoying our rolls, although she had come up faster and was about 30 min ahead of me even though we dosed at the same time. At 4:40 pm we redosed with 60mg each, both of us just bombed them this time, same way, dumped out of the capsule and knocked back with apple juice. We redosed again at 6:00 pm another 60mg each, in the same way. Basically we had a great roll. We were happy and loving and we had super deep meaningful conversations that would be very difficult for us to have normally. We both agree that it was definitely the best roll of our lives and she also said she had never rolled as hard as she did yesterday. Sometime around 9:00pm I was taking some bong rips and she asked me to give her a half a shottie. She was already coming down and I figured it was a lot less than last time so she should be fine. I ended up giving her two little half shotties and she got slightly toasted but was fine and in a great mood still. We sat down on the couch to talk and maybe cuddle as we were coming down. Earlier in the day I had bought some 100mg 5-htp to take as a postload and figured that now would be a good time to take that. I took one and she took one. Immediately after swallowing the pill she got up and went to the bathroom. On her way back to the living room she stopped in the hallway. I just happened to be standing right there when she mumbled something about her head rushing and closed her eyes. I moved to her and hugged her asking her what's wrong. She groaned and said her head was rushing and then she slumped her shoulder against the wall. I caught her and lowered her to the ground. She was shaking her head slightly with her eyes closed and her jaw clenched. My immediate thought was that she was having a seizure. My instinct was to pry her jaw open and check that her tongue was in a safe location. I know that you aren't supposed to do this but I've been in this situation with friends many times in the past (never from MDMA) and I always figure I can take a scar on my fingers (and have) to save a friend's tongue. Anyway what was weird is that I didn't have to fight her jaw open. Her mouth just opened and as soon as I stuck my fingers in her mouth her eyes popped open and she was looking at me like "Why the fuck are your fingers in my mouth?" This whole thing took maybe 2-3 seconds. I helped her up and explained to her what was happening. I helped her to the couch where she sat down. She felt weird and had lost hearing in her right ear. She was really scared and freaked out but seemed normal. She drank some water and her hearing came back and then we decided to try and walk around. By the time we had walked the 15 feet from the couch to the backdoor she started mumbling about the rushing again and started to lose her balance. I caught her and sat her down and quickly she came back to normal. After sitting for a minute we decided to start and walk back to the couch quickly and sit down before this happened again. By the time we got to the couch she had started feeling this rushing and this feeling like she was about to lose consciousness. I was unsure if what she had experienced the first time was a seizure or just a blackout and the shaking and teeth grinding was just the effect of a lot of MDMA on someone intolerant who had dosed 9 days earlier. We were unsure what to do and looked some things up online. She felt fine sitting down and found more than anything else what she felt was scared that something was seriously wrong but no serious symptoms except when she stood for more than 30 seconds she would get that rushing and lose hearing in her right ear, the rushing would stop upon sitting down but the hearing would take a few minutes to come back each time. The rest of the evening we moved about the apartment like this from the couch to the toilet to the bed and so on, always with me walking with her bracing her incase she went limp. She never did but she was always starting to feel a head rushing by the time we were about to sit down (all of these spots are close to eachother and more or less equidistant) She seemed to be progressively getting better and everything we read said that it's ok for someone to sleep after a seizure as long as they become alert again and stay awake for a few hours after it. So around 11 pm she tried to sleep laying on me. I stayed awake for a few hours constantly checking that she was breathing and sleeping normally. She slept normally except she twitched a little bit more than normal (she always twitches in her sleep). Today she has felt beat up and it's definitely been a recovery day but she can stand and walk and everything. She gets a little lightheaded for a moment when she stands but in a normal hangover way, not like last night. She ate two pieces of bread with PB&J this morning and a chocolate protein shake and an anti oxidant fruit shake. She seems to be beat up but more or less fine and recovering. We just really want to know what happened and how to avoid it. I gave so much background so that i included what, to me, are the most probable culprits. It seems like it might have been mild Serotonin Syndrome. I would like anyone's opinion on what the cause could have been. I don't know if maybe the SJW was taken too soon before the roll but it was only taken for 2 days and only 600mg total and not taken for over 24 hours before dosing so this seems unlikely to me. I have read reports of people taking 5-htp like we did during the comedown and this causing Serotonin Syndrome but most of these reports involved people who were rolling very often and were taking 5-htp daily, both of which don't apply to her. Also it doesn't seem likely to me that the pill could have even digested, much less been absorbed and processed in the 2-5 minutes between her taking it and the incident. Then there is the weed. I have read reports of weed setting off Serotonin Syndrome when used in combination with MDMA SJW and 5-htp. This one is hard to believe to me because in my experience weed goes well with everything but thats just my anecdotal experience and I understand everyone is different. No matter what it was it is something specific to her body chemistry as I did everything the same and even took more MDMA than her and had a great time with no comedown. To me it seems most likely that it was taking it so soon after the last time and maybe a total of 270mg (over the whole day) was just too much for her. Please share your experiences and advice as we really need reassurance to to figure out exactly what caused this so that we can be safe in the future. Suffice to say that she won't be using SJW or 5-htp the same month as a roll again but we still want to know what caused this. Please feel free to ask me for any more details as I just typed this out very quickly and I am tired so I may have forgotten something. Thanks all!
