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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Morals on the killing of animals

Eveleivibe

Eveleivibe

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Hiya,

I thought I would start a discussion around people's morals regarding the killing of animals.

My viewpoint is that we are either hunters, pray or both - so I don't see that there is anything wrong in killing n consuming animals. Also, our bodies gaun good nutients from animals, for example, protein which helps the muscles grow. Salmon aids our bodies with B-vitamines which are meant to improve mood.

I don't have an issue with using anamal to create material for items such as clothing, as long as animal(s) are not injured or killed for this material. Wool from sheep, is a useful exemplar here.

Some people enjoy activities such as, fox-hunting. Some people see FH as a necessity to save other creatures, especially farm-stocj where ppm are frying to make a living, whereas I feel that thia is cruely n immoral. Some people will disagree with me that it's ok to eat animals n the argument that we are doing something natural of eating animals to survive - thinking this is cruel n unnecessary when human' bodies can gain good vitamins n so forth, without the use of animals.
For me, I disagree with cruelty of animals n when a person or group of people will deliberately hurt animals for kicks. There's plenty of videos showing this treatment on Facebook n I feel upset that people can treat animals in that way
There are some circumstances where I don't agree with consuming animals. For instance, when companies rear chickens in factories. I prefer to purchase 'free range eggs' or chickens that were raised in natural surroundings.

What's everyome's thoughts?

Evey
 
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Bummer here.

Lost keys to real account.

If you are against cruelty to animals then why do you eat dead bodies ?

Mass produced meat, even expensive 'free range' options, is the result of cruelty on industrial scale.

If anything I have more respect for people who hunt for fun than people that like yourself ( no offence ).

If someone can look me in my eye and tell me that they enjoy killing for fun, then fair play, each to their own. At least they are not kidding themselves.

We may have evolved to eat dead bodies. But we have advanced technologically to the point of not having to.

There is not one nutrient that is *only*
found in meat.

We are not slaves to evolution anymore, we are the major source of change that drives it.

If we were to only do what is 'natural' then we wouldn't have houses, cars, Internet etc.

We are not the masters of this planet, we are it's custodians.
Industrial scale meat consumption uses too much water and space to be an intelligent choice.

As far as we know animals are mankind's only company in the observable universe.
And we treat them like shit.
As a species we should be ashamed.

Tldr :

Eat your cat and enjoy watching it die, or give up meat.

Those are the only two options.

Anything else is hypocrisy.

You are a hypocrite.

But I'm not judging.

I eat dairy so I am also a hypocrite.
 
Millions of Indians would disagree.

There is no 'way it is'

It's a choice you have made
 
Why so defensive?

Nobody is trying to change your mind. I couldn't care less what other people put in their mouths.

I was just pointing out that your 'way it is' is cultural, so the truth of your statement is relative.
 
There is a nutrient that is found only in meat: Taurine. It's a protein fragment that doesn't exist in any plant.

Humans (for that matter, all animals except obligate herbivores) require taurine, but most can manufacture it from other proteins. There is a rare genetic disorder that leaves you unable to manufacture taurine, and therefore unable to survive on a vegetarian diet. The entire cat family long ago lost the ability to synthesise taurine, and are thus obligate carnivores: a cat fed on a vegetarian diet will go blind and its internal organs will fail, one by one.
 
@ consumer :

I also called myself a hypocrite.

Which I am. The cows that make my milk are probably miserable as sin.

I also said 'fair play' to bloods sport.

That not exactly a militant position is it ?



At Julie :

The key word in your post is 'rare'.
The vast majority of us don't need meat.


There is taurine in dairy. No idea how much though. Luckily it's never been an issue for me.
 
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Having been brought up a pescetarian, then going vegetarian, then going vegan, then back to vegetarian, and for the last month or so vegan again (for good this time) I do think it's a decision that can only be reached if and when someone is ready to change their way of thinking and then diet etc.

I wasn't happy with my choices and what I viewed as cognitive dissonance. Such as: I'm a humane person but I support inhumane acts/industries. I'm an animal lover, yet I am complicit in animal torture and murder. I'n an environmentalist yet I support a leading cause of water/food wastage and environmental damage/emissions releases.

For a long time I was happy being vegetarian. But then I realised supporting dairy and eggs was as ethically immoral. I feel healthier physically and mentally since going vegan.

I don't actively try and change anyones minds or start discussion on this topic, but people know my views and I'm happy to talk about them when asked or when the conversations comes up.

I personally think it's entirely unnecessary for the vast majority of humans (especially in the west) to eat meat/animal products. It does sadden me to think of the completely unneeded suffering and death that has been at my hands, purely for the benefit of my taste buds and convenience.

I am the only one in my group of friends who is vegan. I think everyone is on their own path in life and has to make their own choices. I'd be dishonest if I said it didn't frustrate me, the situation we are in in this world with animal agriculture. I try to remember that I haven't always been vegan and just because I have changed doesn't mean I should expect others to at the same time. Also it's a fairly arbitrary line to separate people (meat eaters, fish eaters *also meat, I know*, veggies, vegans) and being vegan is certainly not the ultimate/final form (dbz!)

Where do you draw the line? I mean if you are going for as ethical as possible why stop at vegan? Why not freegan/bin divers? Why not only eat food about to go off, or to waste, or fruit that drops on it's own? Or grow your own food, so not to support industrialised farming methods which kill small mammals during harvest. I could go on.

Practicalities and my wish to exist over the innocent animal lives I indirectly take dictate where I have decided to draw the line.
 
Right now I'd like to steer clear of the emotive and moralistic portions of the matter and simply note that if the bunch of science-phobic absolute fucktards in society try and pull their cortices from the caves it is actually possible to produce synthetic food items with identical taste and texture to the conventional forms yet with perfectly optimised nutritional content without a single higher organism coming within a mile of a blade.

Until then I shall continue to thoroughly enjoy beef jerky and medium-rare steak fillets, and I would personally look the juicy cow in the eye and flip it the bird before its preparation with zero shame if the opportunity arose....
 
^ I think synthetic meat requires actual meat as precursor.

If you don't want to discuss morality why end your post with a statement about your morals ?
Thats a philosophical hit n run.
I take it your disclaimer means you don't have to defend that position? ;-)

@ tangerine

Nice words. I tried to go vegan but eating at work was difficult. Was just eating apples n carrots. I work 14 hour days and just got run down.

I want to try again but it's a bit intimidating
 
Nil pois - industrial batch-cultured Fusarium sp. does not, and if the relativistic morality of a detractor of in-vitro meat is such that sourcing an organic totipotent cell line is unacceptable then their stance is nought more than an indictment of the education system.
 
@bums alt: It certainly makes life a bit more complicated but I find once you start off you get used to the change, pretty quickly. I buy biolife vegan cheese, vegan mayo, a butter alternative and salad cream, all from Tesco.

For my lunches I have either:

Salad, falafel and homous in pitta pockets or as a sandwich with normal bread.
Vegan cheese, pickle and salad ploughman's sandwich
Vegan cheese, salad and salad cream sandwich
heinz lentil soup
Homemade vegetable soup, or butternut squash, or pea & mint
Fried breakfast (linda mcartney sausage, baked beans, mushrooms, tomatoes, toast and hash browns)
Sausage sandwich with daddy sauce

Sometimes a spicy bean burger in a bun with mayo or relish
Sometimes a chicken style burger or regular style burger in bun blah blah (fry's product range, health food shop and waitrose)
Sometimes a BLT with faken (health food shop and waitrose)

Some of those would work as a packed lunch!

There isn't really anything I miss out on compared to being a veggie, with the right substitutes :)
 
@ sprout
I did say "I think"

I wasn't claiming to be an expert and didn't comment or question the morality of it.

I've never missed meat so doubt I'd eat synthetic if or when it appears.

Edit : I didn't think you were even talking about morality anyway?

You can't just cherry pick opportunities to raise the question of morality if nobody has the right to reply. You could have shared you science knowledge with it.

Interesting that you've introduced a points system in one breath then mentioned that morality could be perceived as relative in the next.
Deciding who gets the most points will need another thread.

p.s No need to reply to any of this btw. Just yanking your chain

@ tangerine

I often sleep at work so packed lunch isn't an option.
I realise that's an excuse not a reason.
I'm just waiting for the right day to start as I felt the effort involved was similar to giving up smoking.

Your post has made me hungry....
 
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bums alt said:
@ sprout
I did say "I think"

I wasn't claiming to be an expert and didn't comment or question the morality of it.

I've never missed meat so doubt I'd eat synthetic if or when it appears.

Edit : I didn't think you were even talking about morality anyway?

You can't just cherry pick opportunities to raise the question of morality if nobody has the right to reply. You could have shared you science knowledge with it.

Interesting that you've introduced a points system in one breath then mentioned that morality could be perceived as relative in the next.
Deciding who gets the most points will need another thread.

p.s No need to reply to any of this btw. Just yanking your chain

@ tangerine

I often sleep at work so packed lunch isn't an option.
I realise that's an excuse not a reason.
I'm just waiting for the right day to start as I felt the effort involved was similar to giving up smoking.

Your post has made me hungry....
Click to expand...

I had it would be obvious but the curse of poorly translated humour in text strikes again. ;)
My avoidance of the matter was little to do with the matter itself, rather that the moral argument is one of considerable depth and inherently strong viewpoints and I was/am busy as fuck to such a degree that I would be unable to fully engage, thus I opted to simply share my science knowledge and generate further discussion. T'wasn't half as pissy and serious as it seems you inferred. Relax, have some bacon... ;)
My latter remark was certainly not aimed at you on a personal level, more the militant moralistic sub-section of vegans who obliterate research funding into microbial biotech. by loudly voicing their disapproval but sticking their fingers in their ears when the scientific community tries to intelligently discuss the flawed logic and understanding. It's a matter ever so remotely close to my heart, and indeed my career and world hunger too. I get bitey as such. ;)

The nil pois was simply phraseology, if I had used "no dice" instead would you have picked at the remark as a suggestion that vegans were less lucky than their carnivorous counterparts? ;)
 
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