Mass sexual assaults on New Year's Eve

[socko]

SS: I don't know the answers. I only want something to happen that is relatively fair, and experts without conflicting interests need to work out the details. Fairness requires that the guilty be punished and be required to help. Rather than billing tax payers, people who profited should pay for it. Their net worth is in the trillions. They can afford it. I agree on Syria being their homeland, but for now at least, it's not safe for many.

Also, the last quote isn't from me. I tend to believe the articles you have been posting.

 

[Bagseed]

Oh come off it, use your brain mate. We're talking about a highly significant statistic here, one which if they got wrong they would be smashed over the head with by other media outlets. All the other major news outlets are quoting the same figure as well, so unless you want to insinuate they're all lying? If I remember correctly the figure was taken from a minister or senior figure within the German government, which is far more credible than a UN figure for obvious reasons.

well a study done in Austria doesn't come to the same conclusion. while the majority is young men, it's certainly not 95% (here, haven't found the exact statistic though). Also, since refugees here get evaluated for their abilities by the government, it appears that roughly 20% (of the Syrians) are academics. so not all of them are illiterates who are completely ignorant to western society.

And in my opinion, mass media is just drawing a picture of the refugee, but this is just wrong. I am also personally shocked by what happened on nye (especially in Köln), and think that it's even possible that this might be some kind of concerted action, but you just cannot make it harder for all the refugees, even though this happened. Lets assume that this was infact something planned by IS; wouldn't this be exactly what they want as a reaction? IS doesn't want that those who flee get taken in, and they want Europeans to believe that the refugees are a threat.
recently we had some guys over from a local refugee house, one of them wanted to have a birthday party at our place. they were all in the mid-late 20s, but all were sweet guys, and they also treated the girls in the flat with respect. we smoked weed, played games and had fun. With this I don't want to say that there might not be some assholes coming, but generalizing a whole group of people never did anybody any good.

PS: making this about money is pretty laughable, if you look at how much our governments spend on weapons, building fences ( ), how they do nothing to make the really rich people pay taxes, pump billions of euros into a doomed financial system, et cetera. If the governments were really into a fair an social financial policy, there would be no problem with housing all those people. but the government is practically the bitch of the rich, and at the same time they act like they need to cut on education, social programs, and so on. quote =SS=: " use your brain"

 

[manboychef]

The only way to help this situation become better is start distributing the wealth more equitably. The problem is so few are holding onto so much of the wealth. We could afford to do right by these refugees just by simply taxing the super wealthy in most countries at a reasonable rate (I say reasonable, because in the states its comical how little they are taxed and how many loopholes they have to ensure that money still flows upwards.) This solves the financial problem with bringing refugees into different countries.

Secondly we need to ensure that each refugee is documented, and given a crash course on the culture they are about to be a part of (this will be helped by having the extra money from the first paragraph ie...being able to higher more interpreters, and police force.)

Lastly, every country should be required to take on refugees, especially those countries in NATO. Our piss poor government in the united states got us into this mess, and still continues to try to be the world's police force, so I feel we in the states should be taking on more refugees.

That being said, these sexual assaults and mass gropings need to be dealt with swiftly the by the police force in the countries in which they happened. Just because they are refugees seeking asylum does not place them above the law. If this happened in the states and my sister, or my girlfriend got groped I would surely be participating in some vigilant justice.

and SS, for the record I am a left leaning moderate. Moderates need to take a stronger stand in these situations.

 

[Bardeaux]

Oh come off it, use your brain mate. We're talking about a highly significant statistic here, one which if they got wrong they would be smashed over the head with by other media outlets. All the other major news outlets are quoting the same figure as well, so unless you want to insinuate they're all lying? If I remember correctly the figure was taken from a minister or senior figure within the German government, which is far more credible than a UN figure for obvious reasons.

Still waiting on the original source on the number btw, I believe this is my fourth time asking.

Alas, I'll do your homework for you.

A total of 1.1 million people were registered as asylum-seekers in Germany in 2015, nearly five times the number registered in 2014, the German interior ministry reportedly said Wednesday. More than a third of these — nearly 430,000 people — were those fleeing the protracted and bloody civil war in Syria, which is currently in its fifth year.

The interior ministry figures also showed that less than half of the refugees who registered in Germany in 2015 had been successful in filing asylum claims, as the country’s public administration failed to cope with the burgeoning numbers.

source

The UN figure stands.

 

[-=SS=-]

well a study done in Austria doesn't come to the same conclusion.

I was talking about the overall number not the percentage, though from all the footage I've seen of people trudging across the EU it certainly looks like the overwhelming majority are male, most young males too.

PS: making this about money is pretty laughable, if you look at how much our governments spend on weapons, building fences ( ), how they do nothing to make the really rich people pay taxes, pump billions of euros into a doomed financial system, et cetera. If the governments were really into a fair an social financial policy, there would be no problem with housing all those people. but the government is practically the bitch of the rich, and at the same time they act like they need to cut on education, social programs, and so on. quote =SS=: " use your brain"

Money is one factor in this equation, and it's not just the upfront costs either. In the UK our infrastructure is at breaking point, whether it is the NHS we're talking about, or the road or rail network, schools, whatever. There will be massive additional costs in order to upgrade, or at least just repair the fucking infrastructure haha. For me though that's not the factor that concerns me the most - it's the impact on the social fabric that I worry about the most.

Despite the protests that multiculturalism works from people here, it just doesn't, or to be more accurate it doesn't seem to work when it concerns Muslims. I'm sorry but that's just how it is.. none of the other groups cause such friction. Maybe it's not Muslims per se, maybe it's just the sheer number of them, I don't know, and to be honest it doesn't matter at this point, the evidence is there to show something is not working. The last thing we need is more, and then more fucking mosques sponsored by the Saudis where hate preachers can preach and warp minds, which will inevitably lead to more acts of terrorism in the UK.

They've just announced that popular exams will be rescheduled to fit around Ramadan in the UK. One may argue that is minor and nothing of consequence, but it's this continuous pandering to this religious element that is just ridiculous. Why should our culture have to accommodate this minority element? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around.. least that's what is always put forward. In reality we see it is the complete opposite. And frankly that's bullshit and I stand by that assessment, and my belief that I do not want that in this country. I'm proud of this country despite all its failings and shitty government, fuck any religious minority that thinks it can come here and force itself. Fuck that. And fuck multiculturalism.

 

[-=SS=-]

Recent discussion between Peter Hitchens and Gaby Hinsliff on the Cologne incident.

 

[gh0stmAn]

SS you are basically arguing with someone that will never agree with you. He is blinded by political correctness and even with the facts put in front of his face he will always always protect anything that is seen as destructive to western culture.. Bardeaux most likely agrees with everything Gaby says.. and hates and disagrees with all of what people like Hitchens, Sam Harris and Bill Maher have to say.

 

[-=SS=-]

SS you are basically arguing with someone that will never agree with you. He is blinded by political correctness and even with the facts put in front of his face he will always always protect anything that is seen as destructive to western culture.. Bardeaux most likely agrees with everything Gaby says.. and hates and disagrees with all of what people like Hitchens, Sam Harris and Bill Maher have to say.

Haha I know mate And they know too they will never convert me from my position. I'm not trying to win them over.. they will change their minds if and when they are ready too, nothing I say will affect that, though maybe I can plant a seed or two.. which is really what I hope for except its with those who are more open/undecided on this issue I hope to reach.

Also I got to put it out there.. I feel obliged to because there's an overwhelming barrage of stuff coming from the other perspective and not enough from this side of things.

 

[gh0stmAn]

Haha I know mate And they know too they will never convert me from my position. I'm not trying to win them over.. they will change their minds if and when they are ready too, nothing I say will affect that, though maybe I can plant a seed or two.. which is really what I hope for except its with those who are more open/undecided on this issue I hope to reach.

Also I got to put it out there.. I feel obliged to because there's an overwhelming barrage of stuff coming from the other perspective and not enough from this side of things.

Yeah I hear you man. I am amazed sometimes at what some people write on here and wonder what their true agenda may be or if they really do believe in what they write.. I am just glad to see that there is at least some people in London still that have common sense and think like a normal logical human being.

 

[Bardeaux]

Bardeaux most likely agrees with everything Gaby says.. and hates and disagrees with all of what people like Hitchens, Sam Harris and Bill Maher have to say.

You most likely cannot form your own ideas and opinions and will resort to unfounded generalizations, directed towards me in particular for what ever reason. Do you have anything of your own to add to the discussion or are you just going to parrot what others have to say?

 

[socko]

I was talking about the overall number not the percentage, though from all the footage I've seen of people trudging across the EU it certainly looks like the overwhelming majority are male, most young males too.



Money is one factor in this equation, and it's not just the upfront costs either. In the UK our infrastructure is at breaking point, whether it is the NHS we're talking about, or the road or rail network, schools, whatever. There will be massive additional costs in order to upgrade, or at least just repair the fucking infrastructure haha. For me though that's not the factor that concerns me the most - it's the impact on the social fabric that I worry about the most.

Despite the protests that multiculturalism works from people here, it just doesn't, or to be more accurate it doesn't seem to work when it concerns Muslims. I'm sorry but that's just how it is.. none of the other groups cause such friction. Maybe it's not Muslims per se, maybe it's just the sheer number of them, I don't know, and to be honest it doesn't matter at this point, the evidence is there to show something is not working. The last thing we need is more, and then more fucking mosques sponsored by the Saudis where hate preachers can preach and warp minds, which will inevitably lead to more acts of terrorism in the UK.

They've just announced that popular exams will be rescheduled to fit around Ramadan in the UK. One may argue that is minor and nothing of consequence, but it's this continuous pandering to this religious element that is just ridiculous. Why should our culture have to accommodate this minority element? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around.. least that's what is always put forward. In reality we see it is the complete opposite. And frankly that's bullshit and I stand by that assessment, and my belief that I do not want that in this country. I'm proud of this country despite all its failings and shitty government, fuck any religious minority that thinks it can come here and force itself. Fuck that. And fuck multiculturalism.

The money to build up the infrastructure is there, but it is being hoarded by the ruling class or is simply poorly managed.

The word "multiculturalism" confuses me. I think it means different things to everyone.I get the feeling you're not against immigration, but you are against uncontrolled immigration. Am I right? Changing exam times because of the religious holidays of a small group seems like it is going too far. You would have to do the same for every culture on the planet or else it isn't fair. It bothers me when people blame Muslims. Wouldn't it be better to say that you believe taht certain aspects of their culture or extreme interpretations of Islam are at least part of the problem? Instead of saying Muslims are causing problems, how do you know it isn't a criminal under class that is causing the problems. It's easy to imagine that when Syria was overrun, the prisons were emptied and they came in with the rest of the refugees. That and the fact that of any population, up to around 5 percent are prone to violent crime. Being new here, they don't fit in yet and don't know how to act and don't have jobs, so the worst behaviour comes out.

 

[L2R]

prejudiced people of all persuasions tend to quickly judge a matter that they have not witnessed themselves. none of us were there.

could have actually been a number of causes.

- malicious and coordinated attacks
- cultural misunderstandings escalated out of control
- poor responses to malicious and coordinated provocation
- malicious and coordinate fraudulent allegations
etc etc

there is more to gain for the racist minority from such an event than there is for the migrant community. but none of us really know anything.

 

[drug_mentor]

This is bullshit though, unless you intend to stuff all those millions of people into the Bush and Clinton residences. Why should the ordinary citizen have to pay the price for the political agenda of puppets in government who are totally beyond the control of the electorate? The USA government is the most blatantly bought off government on the planet. The UK government isn't much better either. You ask the man on the street about Syria or Libya and 9/10 they will tell you we should never have gotten involved in the first place, in any shape or form.. the public is not stupid after the whole debacle in Iraq.

Totally beyond the control of the electorate who voted them in three times you mean? Twice following the invasion of Iraq? Yep, the people had no say whatsoever. 8)

Should all national debt be transferred from the state to the leaders who accrued the debt? You could use your logic to absolve a state of responsibility for pretty much anything. The international state system could not function if the state was not ultimately held to account for the decisions of its democratically elected leaders.

The notion that UK citizens shouldn't have to pay for the bad decisions of their elected officials, but that displaced Syrians, Iraqis and Libyans should is self-centred, facile and ridiculous.

 

[Bardeaux]

none of us were there.

Silence, cultural Marxist and/or cultural Hegelian!

 

[swilow]

I'm proud of this country despite all its failings and shitty government, fuck any religious minority that thinks it can come here and force itself. Fuck that. And fuck multiculturalism.

What parts of your country are you proud of? I tend to see nationalism/patriotism as a form of 'religion', in that both uphold something totally imaginary. The whole idea of a nation/country/culture is a human abstraction These things don't exist apart from the shared internal "belief" that they do. Looked at in a more pragmatic manner, if you weigh the objective reality of a human being's life against the intangible and unreal concept of 'culture', any intelligent person would have to say that the human life is more valuable. Culture would not exist without humans, and is never static anyway. I think culture is important but not important enough to value it over a life; and not weak enough to collapse when new elements are added.

Yeah I hear you man. I am amazed sometimes at what some people write on here and wonder what their true agenda may be or if they really do believe in what they write.. I am just glad to see that there is at least some people in London still that have common sense and think like a normal logical human being.

Another nice, pointless post from ghostman. Great.

 

[zzz101]

there is a big deference between refugees and migrants. some here seem think that those migrants were really """refugees"""

those rapists have religious motive and justification (Islam). it doesn't matter if they have good housing and monies/jobs, they don't want to integrate with western values or laws. you think they would listen to you over allah?

the way it's going it wont be too long before Germany/Sweden adopts Islamic law. a way to live like savages and set back all the progress we made for gay rights, etc



What happened to comments like "Islam is a religion of peace"?
we call out Scientology as fraud, the more i see into Islam, the more i see it like a cult, not a religion at all

 

[Bardeaux]

Anything new to report?

That's pretty much every other post in every thread we have involving Islam. Personal commentary, fear, generalization and the threat of Sharia Law!

NSFW:

It's old and boring.

 

[-=SS=-]

The money to build up the infrastructure is there, but it is being hoarded by the ruling class or is simply poorly managed.

Don't disagree with that at all. That's the way it has always been, just in the modern world thanks to law and technology it has gotten beyond ridiculous.

The word "multiculturalism" confuses me. I think it means different things to everyone.I get the feeling you're not against immigration, but you are against uncontrolled immigration. Am I right? Changing exam times because of the religious holidays of a small group seems like it is going too far. You would have to do the same for every culture on the planet or else it isn't fair. It bothers me when people blame Muslims. Wouldn't it be better to say that you believe taht certain aspects of their culture or extreme interpretations of Islam are at least part of the problem? Instead of saying Muslims are causing problems, how do you know it isn't a criminal under class that is causing the problems. It's easy to imagine that when Syria was overrun, the prisons were emptied and they came in with the rest of the refugees. That and the fact that of any population, up to around 5 percent are prone to violent crime. Being new here, they don't fit in yet and don't know how to act and don't have jobs, so the worst behaviour comes out.

You would be right, I'm not against immigration, I'm against uncontrolled immigration and mass immigration. A country has to maintain control of its borders and who comes in/out of the nation if it wants to thrive or at the very least survive. The exam thing.. ugh.. just another example of bending over to accommodate people of the Islamic persuasion.

I wouldn't say your points are wrong, about prisons emptying and a criminal underclass, valid points, however I would add that this goes beyond things like that, that there is something within the mind-state or paradigm of Islamic cultures itself that is a problem, and that whilst it doesn't always present itself with individuals or small groups it tends to appear when large groups come together. The seeds will inevitably be strong willed individuals, preachers or what have you, but the majority are bound to follow the siren call because it all falls under the banner of Islam, and that is their calling.

You can't keep all these bad seeds out either, it is just not possible, and the second problem is that where Islam as a religion is right now it makes it incredibly easy for this cultural incompatibility to rise to the surface. Islam in its current form is not compatible with post-enlightenment Western values and society itself. Islam needs reform and an attitude readjustment, but that is not going to happen.. it has to happen from within and as we can see the majority are not talking about it seriously. The pendulum currently is swung well in the other direction of blind faith to a religion that currently causes problems everywhere it goes.

 

[-=SS=-]

What parts of your country are you proud of? I tend to see nationalism/patriotism as a form of 'religion', in that both uphold something totally imaginary. The whole idea of a nation/country/culture is a human abstraction These things don't exist apart from the shared internal "belief" that they do. Looked at in a more pragmatic manner, if you weigh the objective reality of a human being's life against the intangible and unreal concept of 'culture', any intelligent person would have to say that the human life is more valuable. Culture would not exist without humans, and is never static anyway. I think culture is important but not important enough to value it over a life; and not weak enough to collapse when new elements are added.

I'm proud of what our country has accomplished and where we are today. Our landscape, our cultural heritage, the fact we were instrumental in giving rise to a relatively stable form of societal order and system of law. It's not perfect but it has allowed great freedom for the individual to arise and has also given birth to great innovation which has benefited the entire planet and not just us.

Being proud of your country and seeing the value it has, and the potential for what it can give and why there is a need to protect that potential is not something you should try to lessen with the terms of abstraction and imaginary value. Borders and defined space may be imaginary but they are essential to security and prosperity. Without them you would not have a house and space you can call your own, be safe from being raped or murdered, or eaten by wild animals or whatever. Our relationship to the land is one of the oldest forms of religion there is and it will always be important so long as we are mortal and flesh.

Human life is not more valuable than culture. Any female can churn out a new unit with 9 months and a meat injection. We have more than enough as it is. Culture takes many, many generations to evolve and to get to the point where we are now has taken the better part of a thousand years. Do not take what we have for granted, because if we lose it we may never regain it. You can argue human morality and freedom from the safety of your home, but if you found yourself in a completely different paradigm all of a sudden you may not have that luxury any more. Go to Saudi Arabia and try to argue for homosexuality, see how far you get.

 

[zzz101]

"Denmark becomes the latest country to report surge in women being groped by groups of migrants as locals say Syrians 'go nuts if they see a girl"


The Arabic term is "taharrush gamea"


i read another news report that a bus fill of mostly children, coming from a ski trip from France back to the UK, they got attacked (stones thrown, etc) no injuries