-
🇬🇧 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
European & African
Drug Discussion
Welcome Guest!
Posting Rules Bluelight Rules -
EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari
NPS Act V1. Blankets? Just Say No!
- Thread starter Valkyrie
- Start date
CopperChloride
Bluelighter
No time to read the entire thread but banning mpa has got me back on sticky icky dutch base.
And dear god i feel better for it!
And dear god i feel better for it!
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
April 1st is the official 2016 is the official ban date, but there has been some talk (only heard mentioned once on the news about possibly bringing that forward.) But as we have seen with MPA recently just because everything will be banned next April it doesnt necessarily mean that you'll be easily/legally get everything that's currently available until then. I expect that the Chinese ban on well over 100 RCs will soon start to be felt on the European vendors that currently stock some of the UK banned RCs.
The talking therapies can be more effective in the long term than ADs, but they are only effective in certain situations for certain types of people, it helps if the clients have some capacity for emotional openness and honest self awareness and have enough insight and are articulate enough to express everything. That's not meant to sound patronising or superior, i struggled with the emotional openness aspect myself, due to my own emotional limitations i tended to process everything on a logical / rational level during the sessions, keeping my emotions locked up and out of the way, but that definitely wasn't the best way of getting the most out of the sessions.
Also the different schools of therapies each have their own strengths and weaknesses, the currently popular 'Person Centred Counseling' is in theory meant to be entirely lead by the client, and the therapist is not meant to offer any advice or opinions or suggestions but to facilitate the client finding their own solutions. The client is meant to prepare an agenda for each session. I did a few months of that both as a student and as a client, and although it can work well enough with the therapist really only acting as a sharp focus mirror to help the client gain more insight into themselves and see their situation more clearly. I could go on for ages about the limitations of PCC, personally i am of the strongly held opinion that these therapies need not be so damn rigid and separate, why not for christs sake take a bit from Cognitive Behavioural, a bit from PCC etc for example, and give the counselor the freedom and training to be able to choose to do that if it would be helpful. I feel certain that it would yield much faster results, particularly for PCC, where rather than relying on the client to be able to follow the therapists sometimes too subtle little hints and nudges to look in certain directions, where it might take ages for the penny to drop, if it ever does. I think in practice this does seem to be what happens, especially with more experienced therapists they will be able to tell when one approach is not working and have the experience and confidence to try something different.
But the talking therapies are never going to be able to help anyone who is severely clinically depressed for example, unable to get out of bed and motivate themselves to do anything.
tl;dr? Ban date april 1st 2016, and the talking therapies have lots of limitations.
The talking therapies can be more effective in the long term than ADs, but they are only effective in certain situations for certain types of people, it helps if the clients have some capacity for emotional openness and honest self awareness and have enough insight and are articulate enough to express everything. That's not meant to sound patronising or superior, i struggled with the emotional openness aspect myself, due to my own emotional limitations i tended to process everything on a logical / rational level during the sessions, keeping my emotions locked up and out of the way, but that definitely wasn't the best way of getting the most out of the sessions.
Also the different schools of therapies each have their own strengths and weaknesses, the currently popular 'Person Centred Counseling' is in theory meant to be entirely lead by the client, and the therapist is not meant to offer any advice or opinions or suggestions but to facilitate the client finding their own solutions. The client is meant to prepare an agenda for each session. I did a few months of that both as a student and as a client, and although it can work well enough with the therapist really only acting as a sharp focus mirror to help the client gain more insight into themselves and see their situation more clearly. I could go on for ages about the limitations of PCC, personally i am of the strongly held opinion that these therapies need not be so damn rigid and separate, why not for christs sake take a bit from Cognitive Behavioural, a bit from PCC etc for example, and give the counselor the freedom and training to be able to choose to do that if it would be helpful. I feel certain that it would yield much faster results, particularly for PCC, where rather than relying on the client to be able to follow the therapists sometimes too subtle little hints and nudges to look in certain directions, where it might take ages for the penny to drop, if it ever does. I think in practice this does seem to be what happens, especially with more experienced therapists they will be able to tell when one approach is not working and have the experience and confidence to try something different.
But the talking therapies are never going to be able to help anyone who is severely clinically depressed for example, unable to get out of bed and motivate themselves to do anything.
tl;dr? Ban date april 1st 2016, and the talking therapies have lots of limitations.
Sprout
Bluelight Crew
China's banning of RC's is a drop in the ocean compared to their precursor controls. The ease of accessing compounds that even my dog could convert into actives was a "hush hush" component of the trade that functioned as its lifeblood.
Banning a compound works as well as prohibition, once you start fucking with the actual chemistry components things get difficult.
MPA was a perfect example, and was dead in the water the second a particular reagent became watched.
Banning a compound works as well as prohibition, once you start fucking with the actual chemistry components things get difficult.
MPA was a perfect example, and was dead in the water the second a particular reagent became watched.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
Yeah, good point. Clarifies what lies beneath the surface of the bans. Because its not usually something that gets talked about on news reports, or any surface level communication.
Also i forgot the point someone else made about will the vendors do when the ban strikes. I would imagine most of them will enjoy taking an early retirement. The profit margins some of these vendors make and their volume of trade must mean that many of them will be wealthy enough to be able to afford to simply retire. Many of them wont need to risk the dark net or the black market and will quit whilst they are a very long way ahead. They have been sitting on a goldmine these last 8 years or so (or h/e long it is since legal highs really took off with the advent of the first really good recent one; Mephedrone.)
Also i forgot the point someone else made about will the vendors do when the ban strikes. I would imagine most of them will enjoy taking an early retirement. The profit margins some of these vendors make and their volume of trade must mean that many of them will be wealthy enough to be able to afford to simply retire. Many of them wont need to risk the dark net or the black market and will quit whilst they are a very long way ahead. They have been sitting on a goldmine these last 8 years or so (or h/e long it is since legal highs really took off with the advent of the first really good recent one; Mephedrone.)
Last edited:
Do you think any RCs will be available on the black market after the ban and will become a 'staple drug' as other drugs have that were made illegal before them (all drugs basically)?
As in all drugs were once a 'research chemical' or 'legal high' at one point in their existence.
As in all drugs were once a 'research chemical' or 'legal high' at one point in their existence.
zombywoof
Bluelighter
I can maybe see the blotters sticking around and at least one stimulant and i think the benzos for sure
Boy, still a knob eh?
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
Truth cut too deep did it?
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
An interesting observation since Australia's analogue laws were introduced several years ago effectively banning anything that might even give you a slight tingle, the quality of pills has increased. In fact a recent report from the South Australia police stated that every single pill that had been tested this year following a drug bust actually contained MDMA.
There is a chance that some cheap RC being used as cuts or just perhaps consumer market forces have dictated only the best chemicals survived.
. . . littered with gross generalisations as well. I pioneer brand new drugs, like an explorer, an innerspaceman. Dig it? They're given to me, I don't pay for them. I still go out to work my day job too, pay taxes, Xmas shop, ride in a car, eat pizza. You're not always talking down to some drug addict agoraphobe. Sometimes, even the drug addict agoraphobe is your equal, or your better. Most of the time it's probably someone just like you, except they might use RC's because for some reason the NHS has failed them. It's failed me numerous times & I don't have any emotional or drug addiction issues! I just have asthma & they almost killed me!
I reckon your valid points would be better put across if your try to imagine you're talking to people who you actually care about & who could use your perspective & intellect. Rather than pouring scorn on people who have chosen life paths for reasons about which you likely know nought & clearly understand even less.
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
There have really only been a very small number of really good RCs, and it seems that post ban there can be tremendous difficulty in reproducing the same products with the same effects, Mephedrone is the obvious example of this, it would take its place as a highly desirable illicit substance if only it could be reproduced at pre-ban quality and effects. Despite some pretty determined persistence on my part it has proved very difficult to find anything resembling proper pre-ban amongst any of the sellers claiming to have it in the years immediately after it's ban in particular. I have since given up trying to get Meph but on my last atttempt the product was very nearly almost there; that 'yellow rice meph', i wasnt too keen on the terms and conditions of its sale though, in that you had to buy a minimum of 5g, which is just a disaster waiting to happen for such a compulsive substance.
MXE although much more of a niche smaller market product would also still be desired by many. Same goes for Kratom and O-dt also whilst they are not RCs in any sense they will all get lumped together post ban and they have a strong appeal to a small number of devotees. And MDPV i suppose also has its fans. Maybe even Eph will continue to be sought after. Some people liked Methylone, the AP products and the psychedelics. Other than that imo the other 90% of substances bought to the market over the last few years will be missed by very few, and it wont be worth while for any underground chemists to try to produce anything but the best and most popular substances.
Also any leftover benzos post ban will probably be very easy to shift on the black market, and a small number of the RC benzos in all likelyhood will probably continue to be sold and bought post ban. I agree that a huge number of RC stims must probably be proving to be very useful and cheap cutting ingredients for greedy Cocaine dealers to bulk out their product and make it go further for less.
MXE although much more of a niche smaller market product would also still be desired by many. Same goes for Kratom and O-dt also whilst they are not RCs in any sense they will all get lumped together post ban and they have a strong appeal to a small number of devotees. And MDPV i suppose also has its fans. Maybe even Eph will continue to be sought after. Some people liked Methylone, the AP products and the psychedelics. Other than that imo the other 90% of substances bought to the market over the last few years will be missed by very few, and it wont be worth while for any underground chemists to try to produce anything but the best and most popular substances.
Also any leftover benzos post ban will probably be very easy to shift on the black market, and a small number of the RC benzos in all likelyhood will probably continue to be sold and bought post ban. I agree that a huge number of RC stims must probably be proving to be very useful and cheap cutting ingredients for greedy Cocaine dealers to bulk out their product and make it go further for less.
Last edited:
The best RCs survive, even when they're banned the world over. The 2Cs and even MDMA/MDA were once research chemicals, and they're still being manufactured, because they're that good. Just because everything is being banned here, it doesn't mean everything is banned abroad. I've actually heard nothing else about this in months. Is it even going to get passed? I'd hope not.
breakcorefiend
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2011
- Messages
- 6,017
I can't wait for this ban tbh, not that it will make a huge difference to the availability of said shite, but hopefully it will make dealers get their act together n source out good quality traditional drugs.. well, one can hope anyway
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Tbh mate, I doubt it very much - they'll probably be so inundated with fresh custom that everything will be even more bashed to fuck. Plus any remaining stocks of RCs will probably end up being mixed with them.
Time to get my head round this darknet business...
Yeah, agreed. Dealers here will be able to sell whatever they want, because people will be so desperate for something other than 'a nice, legal, safe beer'. This ban could seriously backfire, if people turn to dealers and find out they really enjoy snorting coke more than they enjoy ethylphenidate (which is obviously a given). I'm sure our wonderful overseers have thought about this, though, and are pumping millions of pounds into rehabilitation, like they do against 'the war on drugs'. Yeah, right. They should just admit defeat, because this is going to cost them the tax that any RC places were handing over, and it's going to cost the NHS loads of money for people in withdrawals, and people that decide a smack habit is the new thing for them (a bit of an extreme example, but you see my point).
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
At least we won't have to put up with smug Tories boasting about the number of drug users falling anymore, because those numbers are sure to go through the roof...