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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

NPS Act V1. Blankets? Just Say No!

Eveleivibe said:
Making them abort a unborn baby is totally n utterly disgusting.
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Just as bad as making somebody carry a baby they don't want.

To be clear, I'm talking strictly about positive financial incentives against having children, probably requiring Long Acting Reversible Contraception. (So that rules out the use of two house bricks .....)
pinkpapaver said:
My old boss, Mr Ali, his mom died in childbirth, haemorrhaging due to female circumcision genital mutilation
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In the days before the NHS, childbirth was the biggest single cause of death, despite half the population being utterly immune to it. This us something we take for granted nowadays

Also, don't forget, Ireland still kills women.
 
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Right. I've been researching this as far as I believe possible and AFAIK, this is the current state of play.

LEGALLY, there are still (untold story) 1.5 million benzo addicts receiving 18 million scripts a year via GPs in the UK.

ILLICITLY, there are an indeterminate number (anyone care to guess?) of 'legal' benzo addicts who receive their pills from legal high websites. Websites that are due to close with the NPS Act come April.

The governments position? Totally confused. Possession will remain legal. BUT the ability to gain that possession, from home or abroad, will be highly illegal.

Conclusion? No answer as yet to the x thousand legal benzo addicts who will have their supply cut off come April, save for stockpiling your drugs now and delaying the problem for x years.

Are we really in a position where the current govt is prepared to let x thousand people die in the coming years? Or, is the only saving grace that the only real hurdle to this Act is an unyet defined working definition of what a NPS is, one that will for example save coffee (or Beethovens 5th) being included and will therefore kill this bill?

Basically two choices.

Do you think a) the govt are such cunts they prepared to see thousands suffer and die or

B) the Act will fail for the sake of a watertight scientific definition of what an NPS constitutes?

Anyone with a viable option c) is welcome to air it, I just can't see one.
 
A) they don't understand the detail and aren't interested in hearing about it.

There might be some big fuss nearer the time if the people addicted to these legal benzos are that lucky. Nothing sensible will come of it though. People will be left to have their own individual experiences dependant on the level of understanding of their GP.
 
looks like option A, I have done what i can with campaigning and as I've told u in private what I've forewarned to appropriate medical professionals.

it is a disaster and people will die. The tories don't care. it boosts their right wing vote.

Utter cunts.
 
C) Thousands of people won't die. A few will, which is sad and unfortunate, but the majority will have to ride a horrible withdrawal but survive. How do I predict this? The thousands of prisoners who are incarcerated each year in the states and forced into rapid detox. Only a small percentage of addicts die, not the 80-90% that some of you are advocating.

The number who die will no doubt offset the future number saved
 
There is a reason we have 1.5 million legal benzo addicts with 18 million scripts a year and it isn't because sudden benzo withdrawal doesn't kill.

Try again.

Or rather, don't.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
There is a reason we have 1.5 million legal benzo addicts with 18 million scripts a year and it isn't because sudden benzo withdrawal doesn't kill.

Try again.

Or rather, don't.
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I think you are overestimating exactly how lethal coming off of benzodiazepines is.

One Thousand Words said:
C) Thousands of people won't die. A few will, which is sad and unfortunate, but the majority will have to ride a horrible withdrawal but survive. How do I predict this? The thousands of prisoners who are incarcerated each year in the states and forced into rapid detox. Only a small percentage of addicts die, not the 80-90% that some of you are advocating.

The number who die will no doubt offset the future number saved
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Are you seriously advocating for this bill? You seriously think that it is a good idea?
 
What usually happens in a us prison is a prisoner complains they are a benzo addict and they are given a token script for a rapid detox. Usually less than a week and never anything with a real kick to it. The same will happen in your local hospitals. People going through withdrawal will line up for 5 days of Valium and be forced to rapid taper. I'm not saying it will be pleasant, but enough to eliminate the deadly seizures of cold turkey.

As a group of benzo slaves who are educated about the risks and the impending bans, how many of you have actually started your taper 7 months out?
 
One Thousand Words said:
As a group of benzo slaves who are educated about the risks and the impending bans, how many of you have actually started your taper 7 months out?
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That's what happens in your perfect teeth unreal world.

What happens in the real world is what may be termed benzo suicide. Hence the 18 million prescriptions a year in the UK for the past 40 years or so.
 
Rio Fantastic said:
I think you are overestimating exactly how lethal coming off of benzodiazepines is.
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I'm not saying every benzo withdrawal ends in suicide/death. I'm saying there is evidence enough to suggest many do, which is why we still have 40 year benzo addicts in the UK. 1.5 million, with 18 million scripts a year. Google it.

Then give me your 'empirical evidence'.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
I'm not saying every benzo withdrawal ends in suicide/death. I'm saying there is evidence enough to suggest many do, which is why we still have 40 year benzo addicts in the UK. 1.5 million, with 18 million scripts a year. Google it.

Then give me your 'empirical evidence'.
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You're twisting data to support your argument. You're taking neutral numbers and implying the reason we have that many is because of the dangers of the withdrawals - there's zero evidence that even a fraction of that number are benzodiazepine-dependent solely because the withdrawal is too painful/dangerous. You can keep repeating how many benzo addicts there are in the UK as many times as you want but it won't suddenly constitute evidence for your position. Either admit that you're talking out your ass presenting your own personal opinions as facts or provide some actual evidence for your assertions.

And I don't need "empirical evidence", because I'm not the one making a claim. You really don't know how this works, do you? Is that the best point you can come up with? Loads of people will die when this bill is passed because benzo withdrawal is incredibly fatal, and your proof is that I don't have any proof that it isn't it? But if you insist . Now, obviously the real figure will be lower than that, as that is all of the benzodiazepine-related deaths in the UK, so that will include overdosing as well. The vast majority of those are going to be overdoses, but I'll be generous to you and let's assume half of them are because of withdrawals leading to a fatal seizure. Even with that generous overestimation, that would mean that out of all the benzodiazepine addicts in the UK, 0.011% of them go onto have a fatal seizure as a result of benzodiazepine-withdrawal. Will hardly be an epidemic then when the bill comes, will it?
 
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One Thousand Words said:
C) Thousands of people won't die. A few will, which is sad and unfortunate, but the majority will have to ride a horrible withdrawal but survive. How do I predict this? The thousands of prisoners who are incarcerated each year in the states and forced into rapid detox. Only a small percentage of addicts die, not the 80-90% that some of you are advocating.

The number who die will no doubt offset the future number saved
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Are you a supporter of this proposed bill?
 
ONE death is one death too many. One of those "addicts who could die" may very well be an EADD poster. We've a few members here hugely addicted to benzos. One I'm close friends with - one death is one many. Whether there's a few deaths or millions we still have a big problem because a life is a life n one lost life will affect many other lives like a ripple affect.

Evey
 
Eveleivibe said:
ONE death is one death too many. One of those "addicts who could die" may very well be an EADD poster. We've a few members here hugely addicted to benzos. One I'm close friends with - one death is one many. Whether there's a few deaths or millions we still have a big problem because a life is a life n one lost life will affect many other lives like a ripple affect.

Evey
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Good point. That's provided a bit of perspective actually, I guess it's all too easy to think of them as numbers in a statistic, but you've reminded me that we're talking about people dying here, not just some abstract measure of harm caused but actual real people. I was just contesting that loads of people will start dropping like flies, but you're totally correct in that there is no acceptable number of people dying so needlessly. Surely though, if people have managed to get addicted to Etiazolm or whatever RC benzo is popular at the moment, I'd of assumed that if the RC sites stop selling to the UK in response to legislation, won't the benzo addicts just buy temazapm or diazapam off of the street? I know there obviously won't be as much choice as they're used to, but unless you live in the scottish highlands or something valium is cheap and plentiful and available basically everywhere, s I don't really see where this poentail huge problem is going to come from.
 
A lot of the type of people who choose to use RC's seem to use drugs on their own I think and probably in many cases do not know the types who sell such things. I agree with what your saying it's easy to find but its not if you have absolutely no knowledge of your local drugs scene which I imagine many of these people don't. Why would they? They've been buying from legal sites on the internet where you don't have to meet anyone anywhere shady and have none of the stereotypical problems associated with drug dealers.

The very reason they got into buying such drugs is likely to do with not associating with these type of dealers and possibly also not breaking the law as I imagine some people in serious professions who want to get intoxicated but not risk their career would gravitate towards RC's.
 
Sid said:
A lot of the type of people who choose to use RC's seem to use drugs on their own I think and probably in many cases do not know the types who sell such things. I agree with what your saying it's easy to find but its not if you have absolutely no knowledge of your local drugs scene which I imagine many of these people don't. Why would they? They've been buying from legal sites on the internet where you don't have to meet anyone anywhere shady and have none of the stereotypical problems associated with drug dealers.

The very reason they got into buying such drugs is likely to do with not associating with these type of dealers and possibly also not breaking the law as I imagine some people in serious professions who want to get intoxicated but not risk their career would gravitate towards RC's.
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Good points, Sid. Very valid :)

Evey
 
Rio Fantastic said:
"what may be termed benzo suicide, by me, for no reason"
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And you think you can 'win' the discussion by being offensive? You should fit in well here.

Look it up. Suicide is a common factor in benzo withdrawal because, yes, benzo withdrawal is that bad.

Going on to quote a bit of arithmetic extrapolated from deaths of almost exclusively pharma-benzo related incidents proves nothing except your desire to treat this as a numbers exercise you think you can play around with rather than one of basic human decency. In short, your date was irrelevant bollocks and it is you who seems to have no idea how many new benzo addicts have been created by legal highs and your only idea of how it will be dealt with is either by a NHS system that can't cope or "they can just buy some jellies on the streets like what I do can't they?"

No. They can't.
 
OTW: the probem is a lot of the people taking RC benzos have no idea how to manage a benzo taper and will not get proper access to a managed benzo taper in say a hospital setting. Also RC users tend to be the kind of people that are drawn to them because they are legal and therefore don't know any blackmarket dealers in the first place.

The NHS will struggle to cope because as it is they are already struggling to cope with the influx of patients who are having crises because of RC drugs.
 
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