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Alcoholism Discussion Thread Version 7.0

My man SKL, it dont matter how you quit drinking. If you dont want to nothing will work. If you really dobyou have a shot. I agree with Mmp85, if youre not into AA then somevsort of addiction counsler could be helpful. Actually its the same principal of AA, somebody to talk to and be honest about the amounts. The difference for me is people in AA knew how i felt cause they have lived it where a counsler just has a degree and hasnt lived it. If you could find a counsler who is a recovering alcoholic or addict then thats a score. It really all depends on you. Dude, i would def stay away from naltrexone. I drank on that shit and got sick. Not as bad as antabuse. I drank on that too and ended up in the ER. The med they gave you sounds interesting. Its good you kept your meds. Im not gonna patronize you and tell you the dangers of alcohol/benzo combo. You know that shit. Man, ive been there. I went years straight with no more than a day or two sober. The shakes and dt's are the worst. I used to make dentures so i worked wth my hands and some days id be shaking so bad i couldnt do my job. Dangerous too cause i dealt with sharp tools. I cut myself plenty cause of the shakes. Then i would bleed for an hr cause my blood was so thin. Whatever you decide to do, you will find no judgement here. We all got your back. Stopping alcohol was the hardest thing i ever did. Shit man ive been to rehab twice and detox dozen times and 10 years in and out of AA. I coming up on a year. I couldnt freaking stop man but finally in Feb something was different and i didnt want it anymore. They took out my colon in June cause i had 9 holes in it prob caused by heavy drinking for years. The drs said diverticulitis happens to healthy people too but said the drinking def contributed. Alcohol took everything from me and inly thru AA have i got some things back but thats just me bro. I know it aint for everybody and thats ok. Im glad you got put and took some pics. Shows a sign of life in you. Like i said, it really is a decision. If you wanna get sober there is pkenty of help here on this firum or a counsler or go check out a meeting and get 1 number and call them next day and see how that works. If you dont wanna stop ill still support you. PM me anytime if you wanna talk. I wish you the best man. Be safe and take care!
 
Something really cool about most addiction counselors is that they're often recovering addicts themselves.
My licensed therapist (the one with the real degrees) is a recovering alcoholic.
All my counselors in rehab were recovering addicts, they were obviously certified to counsel but not at the level of a therapist in a doctors office, I'm sure it's just some kind of course you can take.
Anyway it's different strokes for different for different folks, some people do it all, therapy, meds, and the 12 steps. I know a guy who's been sober for 20 years and does nothing in particular to stay that way he just does on his own because he wants to.
 
I know a dude like that too. 34 yrs and not looking back. You made me remember that my counseler in both rehab stays was in recovery. Good point
 
When I was in rehab even the medical doctors were in recovery, I went to the psychiatrist because I wanted to be taken off the phenobarbital earlier than scheduled, I had never needed it anyway because I never had a physical dependency on alcohol, I was much more the binge drinking type, I could go days at a time with out drinking and I'm sure at some point I spent weeks although I couldn't look back and pinpoint a specific time that I did. I was actually a few days sober when I checked in. So I explained the situation to the doctor and said, "I bet you hear this kind of stuff all the time but it's not that I'm saying I'm not an alcoholic, I'm just saying I'm a binge drinking alcoholic, not a liter of vodka a day alcoholic." And he goes, "Oh really? That's what I was!" And took me off phenobarbital.
 
I guess the reasons I didn't find AA helpful was because I didn't feel like people at the meetings, especially those who got a lot of sober time through AA, the people I'm supposed to look to as examples of success and hope, didn't feel like they could relate or understand me on any level but the most superficial ones. And frankly I didn't feel like I could relate to most of them either. Don't get me wrong, I'd support someone going to AA or another of the fellowships if I thought it would be of benefit to them. The 12 Step model has a lot to offer and a lot of foundational values and principles in common with even the most evidence based professional theraputic modalities.

Bu of course as we know it definitely doesn't work for everyone. I've found BL to be my kind of auxiliary to professional treatment, a peer support group I can always turn to for help, support, hope, advice, and love. As I understand it that is basically exactly the same kind of role AA plays in recovery, as peer support and an auxiliary to professional treatment.

I am pretty skilled in taking the positives and acknowledging by leaving the negstives in most situations, but for some reason I had a really hard time with that in AA. It's like the negatives there bugged the shit out of me and made it really hard to utilize the positives. I think it had a lot to do with how high and mighty some bleeding second members were, but honestly at this point I'm not sure.

Anywwho, sorry for kind of getting off topic. SKL, that NueDexta shit sounds very interesting. I'm a have to look into that, as I fjdn that DXM helps me immensely in many ways (like the poor man's version of low dose ketamine infusion treatments).


Could you use baclofen or phenbut to he l please with the acute withdrawal and avoid DTs and seizures and whatnot? I know the former is used to treat alcohol addiction once the drinker has detoxed, almost as a kind of maintenance therapy, and that it works really well for some people.
 
toothpastedog said:
Could you use baclofen or phenbut to he l please with the acute withdrawal and avoid DTs and seizures and whatnot? I know the former is used to treat alcohol addiction once the drinker has detoxed, almost as a kind of maintenance therapy, and that it works really well for some people.
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It's better to do detox from alcohol under the supervision of a doctor, or medical professionals at a detox/rehab clinic or hospital than it is to take muscle relaxants, benzos, and GABA-like drugs on your own, as people have died from attempting this and it's dangerous. Good luck.
 
Yes, you're even better off doing it on an out patient basis which I think is still pretty rare and not really recommended.
I think I saw it at a doctors office that I was going to for regular therapy (this was before I had an alcohol problem) they had patients coming in to spend the entire day, they'd bring blankets and pillows and books and laptops and come in pajama pants or sweats to presumably take detox meds under the doctors supervision. At least that's what I assumed was happening.
Wasn't the drummer Keith Moon taking detox meds unsupervised when he died?
 
Oh yea my bad if my post came off as suggesting it's a good idea to detox off alcohol, benzos or really most gabaergic drugs outside of a hospital type situation or under the direct supervision of a experienced MD. I mean, one could do it alone, particularly with benzos, but apart from being extremely difficult it is super dangerous as has been said, especially when withdrawaling from alcohol.
 
Is apple Jack bad to sip i know you shouldn't have to much cause it contains the methanol
 
EDIT: Actually, sorry, I had no idea what "apple jack" is, but now I do. It seems like if you make it properly it is safe to drink, even with some amount of methanol in it. But it also seems like if it isn't made "properly" it can be dangerous, which also goes for pretty much every bootleg, homebrew, home made drugs. If you don't make em' right, they can kill ya. So treat lightly would be my advice.

Please don't drink anything containing methanol, methyl alcohol aka "wood alcohol". It's really, really bad for you, and basically will eventually kill you. I don't mean to scare you, but please please please find something else to drink if you want to drink that is actual ethyl alcohol, ethanol, aka DRINKING alcohol/booze.

Remember, don't drink methanol!

Methanol has a high toxicity in humans. If as little as 10 mL of pure methanol is ingested, for example, it can break down into formic acid, which can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve, and 30 mL is potentially fatal,[15] although the median lethal dose is typically 100 mL (3.4 fl oz) (i.e. 1–2 mL/kg body weight of pure methanol[16]). Reference dose for methanol is 2 mg/kg/day.[17] Toxic effects take hours to start, and effective antidotes can often prevent permanent damage.[15] Because of its similarities in both appearance and odor to ethanol (the alcohol in beverages), it is difficult to differentiate between the two (such is also the case with denatured alcohol).
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol#Toxicity
 
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itchyscratchy said:
What's the problem with the prayer? Everyone is acting as though they're physically allergic or something. Wtf?:/ I myself am an agnostic and if the people that are bothered by theology or a deity, just don't worry about it like a true atheist. Ya know? Owwww... My feels... Discomfort...
And every meeting that I have ever been to, ends with a serenity prayer not a Lord's Prayer.
I don't go to meetings cause I don't seem to be able to devote myself to sobriety but the shit about the prayer sounds like excuses.
Fucking everybody here probably did way more "uncomfortable " shit to get high or drunk then getting through such "uncomfortable" experience like a prayer.
man up. The "feels" shit is ridiculous.
Not you Glitter, you obviously can't:p:)
(Man up[nice to see you])
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The point isn't that it's uncomfortable, it's completely hypocritical when they claim to be a non-religious organization.
 
RDP89 said:
The point isn't that it's uncomfortable, it's completely hypocritical when they claim to be a non-religious organization.
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Not at all, AA/NA are spiritual, not religious. Prayer can be really anything. I know plenty of atheists in AA. I am not religious, not a Christian, but I still pray and reflect. I am not going to get into it really, because its not worth it and its a personal thing. And this forum isn't meant to be a pro/con of 12 steps. We are in the same state though, if you are in my city I can for sure find you good meetings.

12 steps are the only thing that worked for me, I am a much better person today. I couldn't stop drinking/using and holy fuck did I try.

1 year, 7 months, 16 days sober
 
Phactor, you rule man. i love your post an agree ver much. I tried everything elso too. I pray all the time now and its always worked for me but not me for it. Giving back is an awesome rush. Good job man and congrats!!
 


Back from Midnight Mass. Did a lot of praying. Not in a state of grace so no communion. Prayed a lot over what sins I must go over when I get to a confessional, it has been a while. Dry today throughout because I can't go to church drunk. Discounting taking a bit more Klonipin. Diaphoretic and a little shaky but mentally I am in a good place. Now I gotta see if I can make it to sleep without it (I do have sleeping meds but I usually stack them on booze.) Tomorrow though I'll be at work and there will be a lot of booze, heck, I'm giving bottles to most of my coworkers, just spent $500+ at the liquor store today actually, but didn't touch a drop of it as they are gifts. The irony is not lost on me. I'm still not sure if bone dry sobriety is my target but having one day, one night, and the next day without liquor would be a pretty reassuring thing for me. Since the topic is prayer, again, you all, in fact, are in my prayers. God bless.
 
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closeau said:
Phactor, you rule man. i love your post an agree ver much. I tried everything elso too. I pray all the time now and its always worked for me but not me for it. Giving back is an awesome rush. Good job man and congrats!!
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It really is, we only keep what we have by giving it away!

If I can do it, anybody can! Because for a long time I had no hope and literally wanted to die. Now life is pretty damn good for me but I am far from perfect.
 
The holidays went pretty well, I didn't go overboard and stuck to wine and some bailey's on Christmas. The problem with the prayer is mainly I don't want to participate and i dont want to debate with everyone, if I choose not to pray that's my business but most people at meetings will try to convert me and I'm not interested so now I just avoid it all
 
glitter_kiss said:
The holidays went pretty well, I didn't go overboard and stuck to wine and some bailey's on Christmas. The problem with the prayer is mainly I don't want to participate and i dont want to debate with everyone, if I choose not to pray that's my business but most people at meetings will try to convert me and I'm not interested so now I just avoid it all
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SMART recovery is an option for people who cannot connect to NA/AA. Neither is better or worse. Some things just work better for some people than for others. There are no absolutes.
 
glitter_kiss said:
The holidays went pretty well, I didn't go overboard and stuck to wine and some bailey's on Christmas. The problem with the prayer is mainly I don't want to participate and i dont want to debate with everyone, if I choose not to pray that's my business but most people at meetings will try to convert me and I'm not interested so now I just avoid it all
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Nobody will try to convert you, its spiritual not religious.

I don't say the lords prayer when its said for example. I just hold hands and stand in contemplative silence. I will say the serenity prayer no problem. Also, NA doesn't say the Lords Prayer at all. Only traditional AA groups tend to, if you are in a progressive area you will not run across it.

If you don't want to try 12 step meetings then that is fine, but don't let fears of conversion or secret religious influence scare you. Just keep in mind it was founded by White Men in the 20s, lots and lots have changed since then. NA has totally different literature then AA so you might like that better, and you can go to NA if alcohol only is your problem. Hell, I knew someone that used NA for kleptomania.
 
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