Jeremy Corbyn: A very old fashioned breath of fresh air?

[Vurtual]

...Cameron has made a big thing about some special "Brimstone" missiles we have which will make all the difference in Syria. We have TEN of these missiles (plus a shitload of other more useless missiles)...

A nice little advert for the arms trade in parliament - and be sure we'll get plenty of good cockpit footage of what they do to help the sales along at the next arms fair (we'll photoshop out the children's body parts) - a steal at £100,000 a pop (discounts for extra evil) - prince charles can probably get the saudis to buy a load if he does another sword dance (the last big arms deal looked like failing until the day after he flew in and did that dance in arab clothing with the saudi royalty).

 

[mydrugbuddy]

It's a bit of a joke really - we've got 8 planes (russia 70, america 100+) - we just want to get in on the carve up (or being pessimistic, want to get in on the start of ww3 (that's one way to stave off the imminent financial catastrophe)).

Syria is seemingly about pipelines: Qatar wanted to shove one through there (and the west wanted them to to cut into russia's gas supply to europe); syria wouldn't have it - then iran wants to shove their pipeline in to undercut the qataris, and we couldn't have that. From the western point of view it's all about encircling russia: the great game hasn't really changed since the 19th century. It's all spelled out by Zbigniew Brezinski in the grand chessboard (apparently (i'll read it one day)) - it's not even a secret. Then there's the 'pivot to asia'.

Apparently our technology is superior in terms of pin point accuracy, even compared to the American's bombers. Even if it is only 8 planes the highly precise targeting that that are capable of will mean they will be a contribution that will make a difference.

The last I heard was that ISIS have ownership of an oil pipeline that they are earning millions from every day, and that this pipeline is now one of the prime targets, in order to cut off one of ISIL's major income sources. Our specialised war planes could take that out no bother. Hopefully they could target this and avoid any 'colateral damage' or murdering innocent people in plain English. It would be a highly significant and strategic strike, I dont think even Jeremy Corbyn could object to such a clinical and clean strike.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

So...'we' bombed the Omar oilfield this morning.

Funny that.

Thursday 22nd OCTOBER 2015

Meanwhile, air strikes by the U.S.-led coalition destroyed an oil facility run by ISIS near the city of Deir Ezzor, AFP quoted a spokesman as saying on Thursday.

The series of strikes late Wednesday on the Omar oil field near the city of Deir Ezzor would affect the jihadist organization’s ability to generate funds through oil sales, he said.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-ISIS-supply-route-from-Iraq-to-Syria-13.html

Too few targets too many planes...much bullshit?

Fuck it, read this.

Western firms plan to cash in on Syria's oil

ISIS is a figleaf for the Mediterranean scramble

Pinpoint accuracy.

 

[Vurtual]

Apparently our technology is superior in terms of pin point accuracy, even compared to the American's bombers. Even if it is only 8 planes the highly precise targeting that that are capable of will mean they will be a contribution that will make a difference.

The last I heard was that ISIS have ownership of an oil pipeline that they are earning millions from every day, and that this pipeline is now one of the prime targets, in order to cut off one of ISIL's major income sources. Our specialised war planes could take that out no bother. Hopefully they could target this and avoid any 'colateral damage' or murdering innocent people in plain English. It would be a highly significant and strategic strike, I dont think even Jeremy Corbyn could object to such a clinical and clean strike.

I don't particularly believe in pin-point weapons - they're only as accurate as your knowledge on the ground (and the people telling us they're pin-point will probably be making both types of killing, so are biased). And when you consider that the last 4 years of 'civil war' have effectively been our proxy army of terrorists fighting assad, how pin point are our jihadi battalions exactly (sorry 'democratic oppostion'). It's handy for us to be able to use these people to do the dirty work and then swoop in with our high tech weapons as a holier-than-thou after thought: this is modern imperialism. And when some of these proxies go rogue (supposedly) and become ISIS, is their head-chopping and heart eating actually any different? (as galloway says "the moderates only eat half your heart"). As it is it seems increasingly obvious that ISIS have been flourishing because of direct support from turkey - when do we invade our nato ally?

The french foreign minister roland dumas (sp?) talks about how he was visiting britain two years before the syrian stuff kicked off in 2011, and one of his mates in whitehall was telling him about the syrian war they had planned which would involve sending jihadi 'gunmen' into syria (i might be embellishing; see the link). There's also that wikileaks cable pretty much laying out what they'd do to destabilise syria in 2006. This isn't about ISIS - if anything ISIS had to come into existence to justify the original plan (when the usual al qaeda weren't cutting it)

The oil that you're talking about is being sold by one of our NATO allies (russia has given proof and will give more shortly); i find it very hard to believe that america and the west with all our power can't trace the money of these transactions, not to mention use their sattelites to spot the massive oil convoys crossing the turkish border (as russia have shown and bombed).

ISIS would crumble into nothing within months of the surrounding countries ceasing their support. I obviously want ISIS to be got rid of: i just think the best way is to stop it being materially supported by our allies (and even us with our 'accidental' weapons drops).

...

After cringing at Hilary Benn's Blair-worthy performance yesterday, and the hagiography the media were spewing about it, it cheered me up to read an online poll in the mirror: Do you think Hilary Benn should be Labour Leader? Yes 10% No 90%

 

[MUSHET]

I'm against the bombing of Syria. There are innocent people being killed. I'm ashamed to be British right now as we're hypocritical wankers!!!!! Against terrorism yet are ok for this treatment towards innocent fucking people.

Evey

On top of that it's a pointless exercise bombing anyway, we're talking about an ideology that we are supposedly trying to fight against, not a country. How does bombing Syria combat jihadists living elsewhere, the terror attacks in Paris recently were organised in Belgium? It's like bombing the fuck out of Ireland during the height of the troubles, it just wouldn't make any sense, plus the civilian casualties as you say would be atrocious.

It makes me sick to my stomach that The House of Commons voted for this. Do we ever learn from our mistakes?

 

[SmokingAces]

So...'we' bombed the Omar oilfield this morning.

Funny that.

Thursday 22nd OCTOBER 2015



http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-ISIS-supply-route-from-Iraq-to-Syria-13.html

Too few targets too many planes...much bullshit?

Fuck it, read this.

Western firms plan to cash in on Syria's oil

ISIS is a figleaf for the Mediterranean scramble

Pinpoint accuracy.

Interesting. I couldn't watch the news until just now, was too furious. That confirms what I already thought, all about us rinsing their natural resources.

These MP's whinging about getting bullied out of their own party is annoying me. They're not Labour, they voted with the opposition. They can suffer for it. Talking about upping security for politicians because a few of them got letters through the door with pictures of dead kids. They deserved to see the consequences. Hilary Ben in particular is a cunt.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Sid for once you n I are in agreement. It's easy to agree to this n have innocent people killed yet we frown at terrorism. What exactly has this government doing? I look at my own child; happy, innocent n carefree n feel sick knowing that children are going through this n having their lives ended before they have even began. Ughhhhh

Evey

 

[Sprout]

Proxy wars, oil pipelines, the Military Industrial Complex, propaganda overdrive - funny, I could have sworn we were back in Korea, sorry, I mean Vietnam, sorry again, Afghanistan, whoops, Iraq, nope try again, Libya, hang on no.... it's Syrian children we're bombing this time, right?

8)

 

[Raasyvibe]

On top of that it's a pointless exercise bombing anyway, we're talking about an ideology that we are supposedly trying to fight against, not a country. How does bombing Syria combat jihadists living elsewhere, the terror attacks in Paris recently were organised in Belgium? It's like bombing the fuck out of Ireland during the height of the troubles, it just wouldn't make any sense, plus the civilian casualties as you say would be atrocious.

Fucking hell... I mean, seriously.

First off, we're not bombing a "country", we're bombing an organisation of many who are in conflict in a country.

Secondly - the attacks may have been organised in Belgium, but you think they aren't in collaboration with the Syrians? If you actually read up on it, links to the terrosists and Syria are already transpiring.

Authorities believe at least two of the terror cell traveled from Syria, through Turkey and into Greece since summer

Thirdly, you complain about civilian casualties? Hello? ISIS just killed 129 civilians in Paris deliberately?? How many more casualties does it take to realise ISIS must be stamped out!? In the words of Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn; "We are not deliberately killing civillians unlike ISIS". If nothing is done ISIS will only grow and strike again and again.

Also, a "pointless exercise" you say? you think a third of labour rebelled against Corbyn and agreed with the Tories on this, despite much pressure, for no reason at all?

 

[BecomingJulie]

All that we will achieve by dropping bombs on civilians in Syria is to stir up resentment, and recruit more supporters to their cause.

Don't forget, these people really believe that an invisible magic man in the sky is p!$$ed off at the West, with our alcohol, our musical instruments, our revealing clothes, our enjoyment of sex including forms which are strictly for recreation as opposed to procreation, our bacon and the way we treat women like human beings; and that if they die fighting for their God, they will get the full-on extra VIP package in Heaven. Believers in an afterlife can never fully comprehend the finality of death. They don't have the survival instinct.

The way to wipe this group out is to destroy the toxic ideas that underlie their thinking. Their ancient book says "kill people". That is what it actually says. Not "stay away from them and let God do His own dirty work" -- it actually says, in black and white, "kill people". If 99.999% of people can manage to live without that exhortation to murder, then they can learn to live without the rest of it.

Also, not stealing their oil probably would help.

 

[Sprout]

What's this about stealing oil?
You mean "Foreign Policy", "Economic Stability" and "Defence", right?

Jokes aside, taking their economic bloodline is a sound tactical decision that many would opt for. I support removal of infrastructure, in so far as bombing the future funding of terrorism directly, but the human in me can't accept 90% civilian casualties.

Also, did anyone spot the US counter-claim on casualty numbers slid into the media spotlight subtly?
The 90% figure is correct... for Russia. 8)

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Corbyn 'unelectable'

The full result

Jim McMahon (Labour) - 17,209 (62.11%)
John Bickley (UKIP) - 6,487 (23.41%)
James Daly (Conservative) - 2,596 (9.37%)
Jane Brophy (Liberal Democrat) - 1,024 (3.70%)
Simeon Hart (Green Party) - 249 (0.90%)
Sir Oink A-Lot (Monster Raving Loony) - 141 (0.51%)

The 'cool shades' are meant to be percentages, but I think I'll leave them as appropriate. %)

 

[MUSHET]

Fucking hell... I mean, seriously.

First off, we're not bombing a "country", we're bombing an organisation of many who are in conflict in a country.

Secondly - the attacks may have been organised in Belgium, but you think they aren't in collaboration with the Syrians? If you actually read up on it, links to the terrosists and Syria are already transpiring.

Thirdly, you complain about civilian casualties? Hello? ISIS just killed 129 civilians in Paris deliberately?? How many more casualties does it take to realise ISIS must be stamped out!? In the words of Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn; "We are not deliberately killing civillians unlike ISIS". If nothing is done ISIS will only grow and strike again and again.

Also, a "pointless exercise" you say? you think a third of labour rebelled against Corbyn and agreed with the Tories on this, despite much pressure, for no reason at all?

Yes, I think bombing Syria and the 'collateral damage' of killing civilians will do more harm than good, it will strengthen the hatred towards the West, more disillusional youngsters will join these terror cells and the damage will be done within. Wiping out terror cells in Syria won't wipe out the ideology altogether, that will still continue to breed. I agree that ISIS needs to be annihilated, if it can be, but I don't think this is the best approach.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Corbyn now abandoned by everyone apart from voters

http://eveningharold.com/

 

[Ceres]

ISIS terrorist blend into the civilian population. All this will acheive is a lot more dead people. Absolute bastard idiots who voted for this. David cameron is a terrorist sympathiser who bows before the saudis who are fuelling this bloody war. Don't buiy into the propaganda. NOT IN MY NAME. These people in charge are idiots who willl have blood on their hands of those abroad and those who end up getting attacked by nutters here inspired by there actions. Absolutely stop the violence and posturing and get down to the real problem of political engagement and negotiations for peace.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Fucking hell... I mean, seriously.

First off, we're not bombing a "country", we're bombing an organisation of many who are in conflict in a country.

Secondly - the attacks may have been organised in Belgium, but you think they aren't in collaboration with the Syrians? If you actually read up on it, links to the terrosists and Syria are already transpiring.

Thirdly, you complain about civilian casualties? Hello? ISIS just killed 129 civilians in Paris deliberately?? How many more casualties does it take to realise ISIS must be stamped out!? In the words of Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn; "We are not deliberately killing civillians unlike ISIS". If nothing is done ISIS will only grow and strike again and again.

Also, a "pointless exercise" you say? you think a third of labour rebelled against Corbyn and agreed with the Tories on this, despite much pressure, for no reason at all?

Well that's ok then let's just get killing the civillians I mean others people killed those in Paris so lets just kill them.

Can you really write all that with a straight face? Because those people in Paris were killed DOES NOT making what we're doing to innocent people, right. What if your family were in Syria right now or people you cared for? Would you be saying the same things????

Shocking!!!!!

ISIS terrorist blend into the civilian population. All this will acheive is a lot more dead people. Absolute bastard idiots who voted for this. David cameron is a terrorist sympathiser who bows before the saudis who are fuelling this bloody war. Don't buiy into the propaganda. NOT IN MY NAME. These people in charge are idiots who willl have blood on their hands of those abroad and those who end up getting attacked by nutters here inspired by there actions. Absolutely stop the violence and posturing and get down to the real problem of political engagement and negotiations for peace.

Post of the year! Spot on, Ceresy

Evey

 

[Sprout]

Ceres, I understand your point and 99% of civilisation is aware of the recruiting drive that Iraq became - but what is your alternative?
It's all well and good to look at past failures, but it's a failure all of its own to allow IS to continue.
Yes, it's an ideological war, but it's a war with a self-appointed command heirachy, a few billion dollars, and the capability of attacking and murdering droves just like in Paris.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

attacking and murdering droves just like in Paris.

At a conservative estimate, 200,000 people have been killed in Syria in the last 4 years. Yes, 4 years. The war in Syria didn't begin in Paris. So, without belittling those deaths in France, why are 150 deaths 'droves' that require retaliation while 200,000 deaths are 'collateral damage' in a proxy war?

The battle needs to be for hearts and minds. You can't bomb an idea.

 

[Sprout]

I have not and never will get involved with the equating of lives.
I find the entire concept of war despicable - please don't lump me in with the Blairites screaming at the news over a spilt pint.

I am entirely aware of the futile nature of militarised intervention, it's just the lack of options force my view.

 

[Eveleivibe]

My late Nain told me the horrors of living through a world war. She gave birth to my Dad's Mam in the war, under a big iron table because they could not get to the errand shelters. She told me stories for hours n hours over many years of what they had to endure. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Going to errand shelters cause bombs every nught, ration books, having to put up black curtains n not light a fire (they didnt have heating in WWII. UGH.

I can't believe anybody can think it's the right decision to start bombing Syria. It's really fucking depressing actually.

Exactly. I can understand it from a social psychological viewpoint but from an emotional I cannot.

Evey