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Is my gf taking too much?

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svadhisthana

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Nov 2, 2015
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She took 200mg last last weekend and is planning on taking another 200mg next next weekend. She weighs 104lbs, so that's 4.26 mg/kg. That seems like an excessive binge dose, and she's only waiting three weeks in between. That doesn't seem like enough time for her serotonin (and dopamine and norepinephrine) levels to return to normal. I'm afraid she's taking neurotoxic doses for her weight that could cause permanent damage.

There's a history here. When her drug of choice was prescription painkillers, she almost died from taking too much opana. Granted, the pill she got was double the dose she wanted, but it concerns me greatly that she didn't check. Then her drug of choice switched to adderall. One night, she took 60mg. One weekend, she took it for three days without eating or sleeping. By the end, she was delirious, slipping in and out of consciousness. We had huge fights about her drug use, and she quit everything except drinking.

She often drank until she was puking her guts out. Some months, it was almost every other time. This went on for years until recently. She finally got her drinking under control! Whew! (I mentioned this to her the other day, and she said her father and a couple friends also went through a change in alcohol sensitivity at around the same age. But I think if she asked them, they didn't vomit the dozens upon dozens of times she did for years. So I don't accept that explanation at all.)

Then I found out that she had starting taking MDMA again and had been hiding it from me (and asking her friends to hide it from me) for half a year. She may have lied by omission, but she's not a liar. I got suspicious last week and flat out asked her. She told me the truth. So that's how I know.

All of this history is spread out over six and a half years. Should I be concerned, or am I just being paranoid due to past behaviors? I've done MDMA many times myself in the past (I quit years ago), and have done a ton of research, but would like input from others since I'm not objective. Not that anyone is, but more information can't hurt.

I should add that I don't know if what she's taking is pure. I'm not sure she knows either. When this was first brought up, she said she was being safe. She also said MDMA dosage wasn't weight dependent. It is. She said MDMA was mostly metabolized in the stomach. It's mostly metabolized in the liver. When I brought this up a second time with sources to back up my assertions, she claimed she was exhausted and that's why she gave the wrong answers. I'm not sure how being tired can change someone's knowledge of basic facts, and confidently enough to be contrary. So I'm not convinced she's done her homework, and that leads me to question what she actually knows about MDMA safety.
 
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Honestly it sounds like she has a drug problem, especially the binge style abuse. In the end though there is NOTHING you can do to change her actions. Her dosing is too frequent and it will catch up too her. Unfortunately though some people never learn.
Tell her to get a test kit and read up on MDMA before shit goes south.
 
We just had a talk. The good news is that the MDMA she's using is tested. She also agreed to step down to just 100mg, which is only a little over 2 mg/kg. The questionable news is that she's still only waiting three weeks between doses, and she said if she doesn't roll hard enough, she's going to increase the dose. It's a start, I guess.
 
it would worry me a bit that she is hiding her drug use from you
 
The biggest thing I advise is if you can't change her usage, reduce the harm. How do we do this?

The main route of damage from MDMA is through oxidative stress, the reactive oxygen species that can be released and build ups from MDMA metabolism and ALSO from not sleeping are very damaging to the brain and body. Antioxidants can help.

I recommend vitamin E every day, it is fat soluble so it enters the brain very well and she will benefit from having taken this even if it's not on the day of her drug usage. Vitamin C and alpha lipoid acid would be the best for her to take on the day of the roll and on the comedown, a multivitamin wouldn't hurt as well.

Concerning the frequency of use, this is very concerning, the original maker of MDMA Alexander Shulgin suggested 4 times a year maximum for MDMA. Your brain has a hard time making serotonin that fast and she could find herself feeling down the many days after a roll, thereby prompting her to want to use more.

5-HTP is the precursor to serotonin in the brain, it has been proven to help reduce damage from MDMA if it's given soon enough. I would have her take 100mg the day after a roll and she could take it the next couple of days for sure. I wouldn't specifically take it before a roll though, it's really for recovery. The brain has a hard time making serotonin on its own after MDMA so 5HTP saves the day in that regard.

Vitamin E, Vitamin C, alpha lipoid acid, and 5-HTP are some things I would invest in for her brain health. Unfortunately there are a lot less chronically damaging drugs for her to be abusing out there, MDMA abuse can leave a very lasting mark and many times it can be too late before this is realized. You have to be damaged by the abuse in order for you to realize it is damaging, essentially. Then it is too late. MDMA addiction is weird in some cases because of the "once every two weeks" nature of the use. But you can still be an alcoholic even if you only drink way too much once a year.

Let me know if you have any questions or anything, goodluck.
 
Just realized that if I took the dosage equivalent she's taking, I'd have to take 319mg. Holy shit.
 
It sounds like your girlfriend is an addict. She is not dependent on drugs, however she does abuse them. The only thing you can do as her boyfriend is minimize harm, don't enable, and be a soft place to land when she realizes that she is an addict and wants to make the change (though it may never happen). Remember, you can't change her, only change yourself to accept her.
 
Is the stuff she uses 100% MDMA? 200mg even for a small bodied person doesn't seem like a huge amount. It's often people do 1g+ if you consider the average pill content to be 150mg MDMA or 0.7g MDMA per bag sold (In the EU).

It is an abusable drug, sure but there are far worse out there the be more concerned with. Try and explain to her the long term effects on Serotonin levels/ brain health. It was enough to scare me off regular usage.
 
mysafehome01 said:
Is the stuff she uses 100% MDMA? 200mg even for a small bodied person doesn't seem like a huge amount. It's often people do 1g+ if you consider the average pill content to be 150mg MDMA or 0.7g MDMA per bag sold (In the EU).

It is an abusable drug, sure but there are far worse out there the be more concerned with. Try and explain to her the long term effects on Serotonin levels/ brain health. It was enough to scare me off regular usage.
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200mg is a huge dose for someone her weight. That's what I take, after rolling for 10+ years, with a tolerance and weighing 75-80kg

OP: does she redose? Or does she stick to one 200mg dose? Imho frequent use and frequent redosing are the leading causes for side-effects
 
BlueBull said:
200mg is a huge dose for someone her weight. That's what I take, after rolling for 10+ years, with a tolerance and weighing 75-80kg

OP: does she redose? Or does she stick to one 200mg dose? Imho frequent use and frequent redosing are the leading causes for side-effects
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Just wanted to say, is 200mg really that excessive? I thought 200mg was kinda like the maximum dose to totally completely roll face and experience the real MDMA experience. In my opinion one should only take MDMA once every three months though, and I personally only take it on truly truly special occasions. It was so so mind-blowingly incredible that very first time I'd took it that I decided to truly cherish the experience as i'd heard far too much about "losing the magic", and thought the incredible state I was in at the time was something so so amazing that I needed to be so so careful with it as to lose the magic of that incredible feeling that MDMA gave me being lost to me forever through abuse was something I'd never forgive myself for. That was four years ago, and in my life I've taken MDMA a total of three times. Anyway, my point is, I am by no means very experienced with MDMA, but every time I've took it, including the first time, I took 200mg, and so did everyone I was doing it with. What's the problem with 200mg, providing it's pure MDMA? What are you expecting to happen?
 
Rio: From my research, the average dose is 1.5 mg/kg, with the high end being 2 mg/kg. Dosage depends largely on weight. I'm open to research that makes other claims about dosage by weight. I'm just concerned about health and safety.

SERT reduction is the main thing. That's serotonin transporters. Dopamine transporter reduction also occurs, and to a lesser extent, norepinephrine transporter reduction. In other words, you lose the ability to move essential neurotransmitters from your synapses to your axons, potentially causing or exacerbating depression, anxiety (both of which my gf is prone to), and some cognitive and memory impairment. At levels above 2 mg/kg, the likelihood of the damage becoming long-term goes way up. At 4 mg/kg on a regular basis (what my gf takes), the likelihood of permanent brain damage is almost guaranteed. I got most of this information from this very site. Erowid and Dancesafe were my other main sources.
 
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svadhisthana said:
Rio: From my research, the average dose is 1.5 mg/kg, with the high end being 2 mg/kg. Dosage depends largely on weight. I'm open to research that makes other claims about dosage by weight. I'm just concerned about health and safety.

SERT reduction is the main thing. That's serotonin transporters. Dopamine transporter reduction also occurs, and to a lesser extent, norepinephrine transporter reduction. In other words, you lose the ability to move essential neurotransmitters from your synapses to your axons, potentially causing or exacerbating depression, anxiety (both of which my gf is prone to), and some cognitive and memory impairment. At levels above 2 mg/kg, the likelihood of the damage becoming long-term goes way up. At 4 mg/kg on a regular basis (what my gf takes), the likelihood of permanent brain damage is almost guaranteed. I got most of this information from this very site. Erowid and Dancesafe were my other main sources.
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Nice man props for being so thorough.
 
svadhisthana said:
Rio: From my research, the average dose is 1.5 mg/kg, with the high end being 2 mg/kg. Dosage depends largely on weight. I'm open to research that makes other claims about dosage by weight. I'm just concerned about health and safety.

SERT reduction is the main thing. That's serotonin transporters. Dopamine transporter reduction also occurs, and to a lesser extent, norepinephrine transporter reduction. In other words, you lose the ability to move essential neurotransmitters from your synapses to your axons, potentially causing or exacerbating depression, anxiety (both of which my gf is prone to), and some cognitive and memory impairment. At levels above 2 mg/kg, the likelihood of the damage becoming long-term goes way up. At 4 mg/kg on a regular basis (what my gf takes), the likelihood of permanent brain damage is almost guaranteed. I got most of this information from this very site. Erowid and Dancesafe were my other main sources.
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Yes, and even if the structural damage doesn't have short term immediate consequences, explain to her that the effects aren't likely to be something abstract and distant like a couple of points off of her IQ in a couple of decades, but the signs of damage can and will manifest themselves almost immediately and manifest themselves as depression, anxiety, anhedonia, "brain fog", fatigue etc. OP, look up a poster on here called "First Bad Comedown" and show it to your girlfriend, when she's actually with you and make damn sure she actually reads it.
 
That would be a good idea, if she wants to. You could make her an account on here together and show her around the forum a bit? If you can get her to read some basic stuff, even just the sticky '6 simple rules', that could make a difference
 
Definitely some signs of drug abuse. I hope she can get clean or at least slow down the use. Keep you head up at least.
 
Thanks for the support. I've copied all your advice and feedback (supplements, etc.) and emailed them to her. It's her choice what to do with that information. I hope she chooses wisely. I'm not sure what I'm going to do if she doesn't. I've expressed clearly that three weeks isn't long enough, but I can't seem to convince her otherwise. At least she'll be taking a smaller dose. Again, that's a start. I'm just really scared, not just of her choices, but of us getting into arguments over this. I just want to know she's safe, and that means being informed. So far, I've been the one doing all the research. I hope she does some on her own.
 
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