What's the best LEGAL high you've ever gotten? Rate them

[Nati]

Legal?
Sex

 

[bdomihizayka]

Poppy seed tea hands down is the best. That stuff can have me nodding for over 24 hours with a moderate tolerance.

 

[LearntYoung]

Magic Truffles :D

 

[SirTophamHat]

Poppy seed tea hands down is the best. That stuff can have me nodding for over 24 hours with a moderate tolerance.

Try pod tea

 

[4meSM]

Magic Truffles :D

This.
Nitrous and kratom too

 

[bdomihizayka]

Try pod tea

Noted. Just got a source. I am sure my answer is going to change from what I hear

 

[dopamimetic]

Methoxetamine, MXE!!! All the other RCs were somewhat lame in my eyes, at least in comparison.. maybe with the exception of the other arylcyclohexylamines, but they also have been designed by a very very intelligent guy and weren't initially though to be money generating machines ...

Okay, and 4,4'-dimethylaminorex was really fascinating but very dangerous too (I seemed to tolerate it much better than the majority, but then again I also just happened to dose with fucking common sense like quite a few people seem unable to do sadly.. the DMAR was not even sold by real retail & led to so many deaths.. unbelievable.. but they also overdosed the sample pills.. and failed to warn the people that it needs 2h to set in & lasts all day long... so stupid.) I have never taken the Benzo Fury things, but I'd bet that if you know an oxazoline in the right dose, you don't want these Benzo Fury / cathinone things any more..

It is just speculating, but could be entirely possible that even 4,4'-DMAR if dosed right, is somewhat less neurotoxic / 5-HT depleting than e.g. MDMA. Hell, I was able to sustain it at a low dose for more than 2 weeks (reckless, I know, and I wouldn't do it again.. but it felt non-toxic, non-depleting really- it made me mentally and emotionally so fully back into the game again that I just wanted to experience this as long as possible, and stopped not because of side effects or fading effects but cause of the very possible heart risks due to excess 5-HT2B signaling- interestingly, even sleep was not a problem at all). And as I knew from samples before, the rebound / comedown was fully manageable and it was even after this long of chronic dosing with the aid of a little bit of venlafaxine for another week or so, just lethargy, no depression or anxiety. 5-HTP & L-DOPA would have been even better maybe.

--

As well as 4-MMC wasn't originally (re-)discovered for the market. But the cathinones metabolize to an ephedrine-like molecule whose effects I hate. Vasoconstriction & all that.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I have never taken the Benzo Fury things, but I'd bet that if you know an oxazoline in the right dose, you don't want these Benzo Fury / cathinone things any more..

What's an oxazoline and why do they render cathiniones and the APBs redundant?

Mephedrone was by FAR the best legal high for me. I believe circumstances played a large role in it though....I took it with a girl I'd fallen head over heels in love with and had only been with for just under a month, so everything was still all beautiful roses, and it was the first real "upper" I'd ever tried (not counting some really shitty party pills containing methyl BZP + TMFPP which were just fucking awful) - I hadn't done coke or MDMA or anything, and it was incredible. It was my first experience of being truly stimulated - limitless energy, mental clarity, happiness, talking a mile a minute with about twenty ideas in my mind at once, and then when we did more it overlapped with amazing empathy, and true euphoria, and an open warmth, the MDMA flavor that mephedrone gave, and I think since we were both virgins to any kind of empathogen OR stimulant, it bought out the best of both class of drug. It was a truly beautiful bonding experience, and I was so incredibly happy that day. It didn't even give either of us a comedown because we both got an afterglow, and it was beautiful, a truly incredible experience.

Second would be the legal cannabinoid blend called "Spice Diamond". We tried quite a few of the first generation blends - Spice Gold, XXX etc, but Spice Diamond got us well and truly fucked up, a really intense high, but it also seemed the most similar to normal weed in that we were happy and euphoric, none of the weird paranoia that came with the XXX blend, but god damn the experience was so intense I struggle to remember being that high on weed alone ever. Unfortunately for some reason the Spice Diamond was the first blend to go, and then we were stuck with Gold for ages but then that generation of cannabinoids were banned. Thankfully, by this point me and all my friends had matured a little and found plenty of good normal weed dealers and so didn't have to get anymore of the legal ones, because had we of continued we could have naively stumbled upon some of the more dangerous ones that were being pumped out faster than the government could ban them, and a couple of my friends ended up having seizures off of one blend and other very serious side effects.

 

[dopamimetic]

Oxazolines are a class of psychostimulants (like e.g. the amphetamines, or the cathinones). There has been the ADHD treatment pemoline, the illegal drug 4-methylaminorex and it's RC derivate 4,4'-dimethylaminorex.

There is few known about their unique effects afaik, but they are much less draining / depleting / tolerance & rebound/comedown-prone than the usual stimulants. Pemoline was highly appreciated amongst the ADHD people, many who used it say it was the best med ever. Also they are essentially nootropic-alike creating a very clear, creative yet euphoric state of mind.
I theorize that they are probably excitatory & anti-excitatory (through blocking glutamate or calcium influx) at the same time, so leading to much less overall stimulation to which the brain adjusts with tolerance etc. but more "shifting" the brain activity.. essentially making it work more effectively..

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Oxazolines are a class of psychostimulants (like e.g. the amphetamines, or the cathinones). There has been the ADHD treatment pemoline, the illegal drug 4-methylaminorex and it's RC derivate 4,4'-dimethylaminorex.

There is few known about their unique effects afaik, but they are much less draining / depleting / tolerance & rebound/comedown-prone than the usual stimulants. Pemoline was highly appreciated amongst the ADHD people, many who used it say it was the best med ever. Also they are essentially nootropic-alike creating a very clear, creative yet euphoric state of mind.
I theorize that they are probably excitatory & anti-excitatory (through blocking glutamate or calcium influx) at the same time, so leading to much less overall stimulation to which the brain adjusts with tolerance etc. but more "shifting" the brain activity.. essentially making it work more effectively..

They sound extremely promising, but alas I must say, my initial gut reaction would be that they were too good to be true. After reading far too many overhyped predictions, straight-up scam "shill" reviews of new compounds and seen a huge buzz around a new drug that turns out that everyone - other than the reckless, hardcore RC fiends who will take literally anything as soon as it hits the market - is disappointed with to get too excited about anything before a general consensus has been reached about a drug's actual effects profile. I mean that little description could be lifted right out of "Limitless", no? Also, if they are as ideal as you say, I would have thought the Chinese RC vendors, that are pumping out new compounds seemingly every week would have already gone down this avenue and we would have had at least one or two out already? It's not as if the vendors producing these drugs are being exactly careful or conservative with what they're producing, I mean we've had drugs as diverse as a quaalude analogue and the NBOMEs.

Whilst I'll certainly be keeping an eye on the RC market for these, I don't understand how these would make cathiniones/ABPs redundant as they appear to be aimed at slightly different groups of drug users - cathiniones are subjectively like a cross between cocaine and MDMA ime, but are far too euphoric and compulsive to be called a functional stimulant, whereas the ABPs are straight up psychedelic amphetamines and are far too psychedelic to be put in the same class as traditional psychostimulants, whereas the drugs you are describing would appear to be drugs that are a massive improvement over the fluroamphetamines and the like, which are closer to traditional, functional psychostimulants like amphetamine, but if your prediction turns out to be true would be an incredible improvement over them.

However, if your (slightly grandiose, I might add!) claims are right, these drugs would be the freaking holy grail of stimulants. You will have to elaborate for me a little though, as although I am really interested in how drugs work in the brain, my knowledge of psychopharmacology is woefully inadequate - I would have thought blocking glutamate to reduce overall 'excitement' would also directly block the dopamine/noradrenalin release that makes stimulants stimulating and that attenuating this effect would thereby reduce the subjective positive effects, and that even if it doesn't do this I can't understand the mechanism by which tolerance is subverted.

 

[Drderms]

CODEINE is good for a cheap over the counter opiate high panadeiene extra (15mgcodeine/paracetamol500mg) CWE
and DXM is a good over the counter trip never had a bad trip on it but everyone is different .
The governtment is going to make codeine prescription only next year some time which is fucking retarted Australia is turning into a sissy country next they will make anti histamines with sedative properties prescription only ..

 

[dopamimetic]

Rio Fantastic - Yeah, somewhat in my eyes they come as clear to a 'holy grail of stimulants' as currently possible. Nearer than one would think without knowing the experience. As I said, I only know the 4,4'-DMAR ("Serotoni") personally, but from other people's reports it must been very similar to the rare but beloved 4-MAR ("U4Ea") & pemoline (this one being a pure straight stimulant w/o serotonin action, but especially in as the magnesium salt - which would confirm my thought of glutamate antagonism, as Mg ions are involved in NMDA channels - it is said from various users (there are many more reports, but as the era of pemoline was certainly before the rise of the internet, it's not that publicly known) to be really superior to either amphetamine or methylphenidate & actually having kind of nootropic-alike, if you want so, yes, hints of 'Limitless' action.

I would not have actually compared it to that drug, but yes ... there are similarities in what I've experienced from 4,4'-DMAR.

The thing is, they are incredibly potent & thus dangerous. They are by far less forgiving in relation to dose & poly-consumption and have repeatedly to a surge of overdose deaths & serotonin syndrome.. I think this is the cause that they are not sold publicly, and maybe (I don't know) difficult to synthesize.

But for that price, you get a truly superior effects : side effects ratio. Everything comes with a price, this is true.

The glutamate thing is difficult - but there is something about inhibiting excitatory inhibition leading to disinhibition (sorry for the complexity - think of benzodiazepines which disinhibit people by inhibiting excitation. Or, of course, ethanol which is one hell of a sedative, it combines at least 3 or 4 inhibitory actions in one molecule & you all know what it makes people do, act & look like.. up to the point of convulsions in overdose. But they are actual sedatives through GABA while inhibiting glutamate below a certain threshold is not actually sedating. It can take a bit of the intoxication away -while adding other bits like more pronounced emotional euphoria, yes, but some like me respond very well to the combination of e.g. methylphenidate with an NMDA antagonist like memantine. Much less tolerance, rebound and wired feeling.)

Oh, and the oxazolines tend to work all day long. You dose once, wait for it to work & forget about it ... no urge to redose, no mood swings - at least for me. But of course, it's not for these into tripping balls or strong intoxication - so I have actually overstated that they are 'better' in every way. For me they are, but I'm no stoner & hate to be fucked up.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Rio Fantastic - Yeah, somewhat in my eyes they come as clear to a 'holy grail of stimulants' as currently possible. Nearer than one would think without knowing the experience. As I said, I only know the 4,4'-DMAR ("Serotoni") personally, but from other people's reports it must been very similar to the rare but beloved 4-MAR ("U4Ea") & pemoline (this one being a pure straight stimulant w/o serotonin action, but especially in as the magnesium salt - which would confirm my thought of glutamate antagonism, as Mg ions are involved in NMDA channels - it is said from various users (there are many more reports, but as the era of pemoline was certainly before the rise of the internet, it's not that publicly known) to be really superior to either amphetamine or methylphenidate & actually having kind of nootropic-alike, if you want so, yes, hints of 'Limitless' action.

I would not have actually compared it to that drug, but yes ... there are similarities in what I've experienced from 4,4'-DMAR.

The thing is, they are incredibly potent & thus dangerous. They are by far less forgiving in relation to dose & poly-consumption and have repeatedly to a surge of overdose deaths & serotonin syndrome.. I think this is the cause that they are not sold publicly, and maybe (I don't know) difficult to synthesize.

But for that price, you get a truly superior effects : side effects ratio. Everything comes with a price, this is true.

The glutamate thing is difficult - but there is something about inhibiting excitatory inhibition leading to disinhibition (sorry for the complexity - think of benzodiazepines which disinhibit people by inhibiting excitation. But they are sedatives while inhibiting glutamate below a certain threshold is not actually sedating. It takes a bit of the intoxication away, yes, but some like me respond very well to the combination of e.g. methylphenidate with an NMDA antagonist like memantine. Much less tolerance, rebound and wired feeling.)

The thread you posted had only a tiny handful of experiences, the majority of the very positive reports were from people with ADHD, which would make sense, considering it doesn't actually raise intra-cellular dopamine levels, but instead the drug mimics dopamine directly in the brain, instead of affecting the reuptake or acting directly as a releasing agent. This implies to me the very very positive experiences come from people who are already dopamine deficient - i.e. those with ADHD - since it mimics dopamine rather than actually manipulating the amount of it, what would be the pharmacological basis for all the fantastic effects that you speak of? This itself is demonstrated in that thread - all the great reports from people with ADHD, and a couple of people who experience absolutely zero positive effects.

Incredibly potent they may be, but when has that stopped RC vendors from producing a drug, ever? They have time and time again released drugs that are active in the microgram range and seem to have little concern for the safety of their users, they merely add "Not for human consumption" and sell it to anyone with money. This alone is not reason enough to explain why an apparent wonder-drug which would be theoretically even better than all the stimulants we have now, and thus an enormous potential market and huge profits, has not yet been produced on a wide scale. Also, glutamate/NMDA pathways are not the only mechanism for tolerance - a drug which produced an appreciable increase in dopamine/noradrenaline/serotonin levels, enough to cause any kind of a "high", would have to contend with downregulation, changes in receptor density etc, and I don't see how these drugs could work around that. Difficulty synthesizing would also not really explain it - the research chemicals being made today mostly come from large chemical factories in China or India, being produced on an industrial scale. So neither difficult synthesis nor safety margin has as of yet been a factor in limiting the output of any research chemicals - indeed, it would appear thus far the only problem is that only a small handful of the compounds they produce have widespread appeal. Off the top of my head I'd say the APBs - "Benzo Fury" - was the last really really successful one, along with MXE and Mephedrone and NBOMe - drugs that were so enormously successful that they broke into the mainstream and held their own against their illegal counterparts.

Unless you can back up your grandiose predictions with some solid psychopharmacological mechanisms or at least with some positive reports that seem reputable (a handful of posts all made around the same time by people with less than ten posts who never posted again don't really count - cmon dude, you know that screams shill) then I think that your claims are less scientific fact and more you hoping & dreaming.

 

[dopamimetic]

Granted, there were only a few responses. I've talked with other people experienced with pemoline before & after but I don't have records of these conversations & others I may not link to (deep web board, and it's offline afaik now). You might be entirely right that people respond very differently to the drugs (as they do) and some will get less positive reactions or respond better to e.g. Mephedrone.

There was the russian stimulant mesocarb / sidnocarb that has been speculated to be a prodrug to an oxazoline / pemoline relative. It, too, was reported here on BL by some experienced users to not have the amphetamine-associated rebound & typical tolerance but working even in severely sleep deprived individuals etc. - at the price of leading into straight psychosis instead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics...ct_of_sidnocarb_on_learning_and_memory_biull/
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...socarb-(dopaminergic)?p=13264469#post13264469

Glutamate is not the only mechanism of tolerance of course, but it is a major involved pathway. Inhibiting NMDA alleviates tolerance to dopaminergics, to opioids & possibly even to GABAergics.

Edit: Yeah, I don't get it who and why decides which RC compounds to synthesize and which ones not. Honestly, I came to to the conclusion - together with others here on BL - that these people behind actually often don't know or don't care much about the pharmacology & science. They are just about the money. It's probably that simple. The NBOMe compounds & bromo-dragonfly were examples of course when they did something terribly wrong. But there is no reason either why next to none of the opioid RCs get marketed publicly, they would sell like nothing with all the opioid addicts desperately looking for a cheap, potent substitute - but probably even the capitalists fear of the epidemic that would cause eventually... They have pushed that mexedrone thing lately, synthesized tons of the stuff, made major campaigns etc. - when it is inactive and they knew it before.

There would have been uncounted completely legal compounds to sell that would actually work, like the oxazolines, or also MXE derivates, and so on ... if you read in NSPD here from time to time, you'll get stunned what actually is possible in neuroscience / chemistry ... I am no expert by any way, but we have truly intelligent individuals posting here that know what they are talking about. If I'm right, methoxetamine has showed up first on bluelight.

Another interesting thing is that many of the serotonergic stimulants have the risk of pulmonary hypertension & heart valve damage through excessive peripheral 5-HT2B activity. This is especially pronounced with the aminorex derivates but probably also a risk with methylone / 5-/6-APB etc. There are quite some only peripherally active 5-HT2B antagonists known from science that would readily minimize or prevent that damage. Nobody cares to synthesize, sell or ask for them. I've tried to get two major and well known UK vendors into synthesize one of them and some oxazolines. They did not want to do.

I've found someone with robust chemistry skills seriously interested in the aminorex family some day in 2013 or so. He did numerous tries to synthesize 4-MAR but failed to do so- the synthesis seems to be somewhat difficult. I know too less about chemistry to really say something about that..

 

[desertshore]

Mephedrone was by FAR the best legal high for me. I believe circumstances played a large role in it though....

Methylone here, but almost the same circumstances
Going offtopic, I think that two days prior to bk-MDMA I tried K with the same girl, and *that* was my best drug-related experience ever.

 

[phatass]

07: 2c-b then 2c-i
08: jwh-018 (did not like much) Later on mephedrone, 2cx and sub-tryps. Sweet!
Em Ex Ee will likely be the death of me if it were to go bad but eff do I crave it since eu ban since I'm going rehab soon. Love the stuff :-/ though.
25i and many nbomes were enjoyable ime
Eph (got me hooked for a while) as did o-dsmt.
Other rcs I've known and loved many 4-ho's or aco's. 5-meo's. Al lad. 6-APB 5-MAPB and Methylone.

To be continued.

 

[chrisincville]

I hate DXM, but am gaining interest in kratom..

As far as legal " highs" go, just alcohol, unless of course you count my scripts ;-)

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Granted, there were only a few responses. I've talked with other people experienced with pemoline before & after but I don't have records of these conversations & others I may not link to (deep web board, and it's offline afaik now). You might be entirely right that people respond very differently to the drugs (as they do) and some will get less positive reactions or respond better to e.g. Mephedrone.

There was the russian stimulant mesocarb / sidnocarb that has been speculated to be a prodrug to an oxazoline / pemoline relative. It, too, was reported here on BL by some experienced users to not have the amphetamine-associated rebound & typical tolerance but working even in severely sleep deprived individuals etc. - at the price of leading into straight psychosis instead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics...ct_of_sidnocarb_on_learning_and_memory_biull/
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...socarb-(dopaminergic)?p=13264469#post13264469

Glutamate is not the only mechanism of tolerance of course, but it is a major involved pathway. Inhibiting NMDA alleviates tolerance to dopaminergics, to opioids & possibly even to GABAergics.

Edit: Yeah, I don't get it who and why decides which RC compounds to synthesize and which ones not. Honestly, I came to to the conclusion - together with others here on BL - that these people behind actually often don't know or don't care much about the pharmacology & science. They are just about the money. It's probably that simple. The NBOMe compounds & bromo-dragonfly were examples of course when they did something terribly wrong. But there is no reason either why next to none of the opioid RCs get marketed publicly, they would sell like nothing with all the opioid addicts desperately looking for a cheap, potent substitute - but probably even the capitalists fear of the epidemic that would cause eventually... They have pushed that mexedrone thing lately, synthesized tons of the stuff, made major campaigns etc. - when it is inactive and they knew it before.

There would have been uncounted completely legal compounds to sell that would actually work, like the oxazolines, or also MXE derivates, and so on ... if you read in NSPD here from time to time, you'll get stunned what actually is possible in neuroscience / chemistry ... I am no expert by any way, but we have truly intelligent individuals posting here that know what they are talking about. If I'm right, methoxetamine has showed up first on bluelight.

Another interesting thing is that many of the serotonergic stimulants have the risk of pulmonary hypertension & heart valve damage through excessive peripheral 5-HT2B activity. This is especially pronounced with the aminorex derivates but probably also a risk with methylone / 5-/6-APB etc. There are quite some only peripherally active 5-HT2B antagonists known from science that would readily minimize or prevent that damage. Nobody cares to synthesize, sell or ask for them. I've tried to get two major and well known UK vendors into synthesize one of them and some oxazolines. They did not want to do.

I've found someone with robust chemistry skills seriously interested in the aminorex family some day in 2013 or so. He did numerous tries to synthesize 4-MAR but failed to do so- the synthesis seems to be somewhat difficult. I know too less about chemistry to really say something about that..

You've yet to explain how it could act anything like a traditional stimulant since it acts *as* dopamine in the brain rather than affecting intraceullar dopamine concentrations.

 

[ArtVandalay]

poppy pod tea

 

[Scarfo]

Probably kratom overall. It's consistent, widely available, and seemingly gentle.