aliens

[drug_mentor]

you're on a forum devoted to drugee headcases

Actually, I am on a harm reduction forum.

looking for verifiable and quantifiable proof of ETI and you dismiss any data gathered by those who are intoxicated? dude, go fish. you can't see radio waves without a telescope - you must alter your perceptions to include that data. do you know how radio telescopes work? good for you. we have NO IDEA how our brains work. how is the idea that altered states of mind are necessary to perceive high dimensions (and such) scientific invalid? psychology is a science - they muddle through.

Psychology is a science because they employ the scientific method. They test things rigorously in a controlled and measurable way and they attempt to falsify their findings. Psychology also does not make claims about absolute truths, the way you are about aliens and "coincidence control". It is fallacious to compare what you are doing to psychology (or any other science).

You can't measure intoxication giving access to "higher dimensions", nor can you rationalise it in any sort of logical and intelligible way. Everyone is free to believe their hallucinations are reality if they so choose, but if you start promoting your hallucinations as philosophy and/or science you should expect to get called out on it.

understand where you are: you are NOT a scientist in a lab running statistical analyses on hundreds of double blind experiments. you are darwin, fresh off the boat, overwhelmed with data trying desperately to find a pattern so that you can begin constructing hypotheses. should darwin have given up because his p values weren't significant?

Again, you are making a ridiculous comparison. You are comparing people constructing theories on the world based on what is universally perceivable and measurable to you cooking up stories about aliens while tripping balls on DXM.

also, do you get that this is a day to day thing for me? not some vision i had on plateau sigma, but something i've come to rely on to make my life work? i *know* i can't take it in a lab and test it YET. but it would also be irrational for me to deny the shit that goes on as a result of this contact. who was it that said 'save mankind from a god that works?' i have to capture as much data about the phenomenon as possible, by whatever means i can.

You have admitted elsewhere on this site that you are a daily user of DXM. Given this fact, it is not remotely surprising to me that delusions you have come to believe under the influence of DXM are a day to day thing for you.

What is irrational is your belief that coincidences you observe while high have anything to do with reality. The rational thing for you to do would be to stop taking drugs for a few months and think about this in the sober light of day. If you truly are a trained scientist as you claim, I am sure this would be sufficient for you to realise that what you describe is not substantive evidence of anything.

in any if you want proof, follow the guide for plateau sigma in the DXM FAQ:

First of all, you should know that whether or not I could replicate your hallucinations by doing so, this would be proof of nothing. Moreover, I have no interest in setting out to experience delusions about aliens.

Secondly, I think you should remove the last part of your post. It would be unfortunate if someone took this advice in an effort to try and discover something interesting or meaningful. If you want to go on these mind bending trips that is your business, but I don't think you should be promoting it.

I don't intend to keep replying to you in this thread, because it isn't going anywhere, and it is getting off-topic.

 

[schwitzerglitzer]

OF COURSE there are alien beings out there! And maybe the government keep that knowledge TOP SECRET - but many whistleblower told about that, f.e. that the US gov. is working together with alien beings and has a special contract for it.

Or: did you ever heard that a NASA scientist proved the existence of a UFO-spaceship in the bible in the story of prophet Ezechiel? Look this drawing from the scientist from nasa josef blumrich:
https://grenzwissenschaftler.files....ich-original-zeichnung-hesekiel-spaceship.jpg

ONE HAVE TO BELIEVE IT

 

[Xorkoth]

OF COURSE there are alien beings out there! And maybe the government keep that knowledge TOP SECRET - but many whistleblower told about that, f.e. that the US gov. is working together with alien beings and has a special contract for it.

I am aware of the accounts of people you'd think you could trust about this subject. The problem is that you can't take that as proof because you don't know their real motivations or whether they're telling the truth. You can take it as evidence to support your views if you choose, but it's certainly not certain proof.

Or: did you ever heard that a NASA scientist proved the existence of a UFO-spaceship in the bible in the story of prophet Ezechiel? Look this drawing from the scientist from nasa josef blumrich:
https://grenzwissenschaftler.files....ich-original-zeichnung-hesekiel-spaceship.jpg

ONE HAVE TO BELIEVE IT

Applying ancient drawings to our own modern ideas of what it looks like is much farther from proof than believing someone's account of information. Who's to say what the artist was trying to represent? It could be all kinds of things.

I want to believe it too but I'm not willing (anymore) to abandon logic and twist things I see to fit my desired view. I hope it's true, but nothing I've ever seen or heard has convinced me, only allowed the possibility in my mind.

 

[socko]

Some look at DXM as a shamanistic drug. To them, it opens gatesways that lead to worlds inhabited by DXM, DMT, ketamine, salvia D, etc aliens. Do you not believe the claims that shamans contanct "aliens" or do you just not believe tantric and other DXM fans (terrence mckenna, etc) on internet boards?

Actually, I am on a harm reduction forum.



Psychology is a science because they employ the scientific method. They test things rigorously in a controlled and measurable way and they attempt to falsify their findings. Psychology also does not make claims about absolute truths, the way you are about aliens and "coincidence control". It is fallacious to compare what you are doing to psychology (or any other science).

You can't measure intoxication giving access to "higher dimensions", nor can you rationalise it in any sort of logical and intelligible way. Everyone is free to believe their hallucinations are reality if they so choose, but if you start promoting your hallucinations as philosophy and/or science you should expect to get called out on it.



Again, you are making a ridiculous comparison. You are comparing people constructing theories on the world based on what is universally perceivable and measurable to you cooking up stories about aliens while tripping balls on DXM.



You have admitted elsewhere on this site that you are a daily user of DXM. Given this fact, it is not remotely surprising to me that delusions you have come to believe under the influence of DXM are a day to day thing for you.

What is irrational is your belief that coincidences you observe while high have anything to do with reality. The rational thing for you to do would be to stop taking drugs for a few months and think about this in the sober light of day. If you truly are a trained scientist as you claim, I am sure this would be sufficient for you to realise that what you describe is not substantive evidence of anything.



First of all, you should know that whether or not I could replicate your hallucinations by doing so, this would be proof of nothing. Moreover, I have no interest in setting out to experience delusions about aliens.

Secondly, I think you should remove the last part of your post. It would be unfortunate if someone took this advice in an effort to try and discover something interesting or meaningful. If you want to go on these mind bending trips that is your business, but I don't think you should be promoting it.

I don't intend to keep replying to you in this thread, because it isn't going anywhere, and it is getting off-topic.

 

[drug_mentor]

Some look at DXM as a shamanistic drug. To them, it opens gatesways that lead to worlds inhabited by DXM, DMT, ketamine, salvia D, etc aliens. Do you not believe the claims that shamans contanct "aliens" or do you just not believe tantric and other DXM fans (terrence mckenna, etc) on internet boards?

I don't generally believe that taking drugs opens gateways for meeting aliens, or any other type of being, apart from in a hallucinatory sense. I am not saying that it is absolutely impossible these things are occurring, just that it is misleading for people who have undergone these experiences to claim that they are evidence of anything.

When I take LSD the walls look like they are breathing, but it would be delusional for me to believe that this is because the walls actually breathe, and that taking psychedelic drugs revealed the true nature of the world to me. Of course, I can't conclusively disprove that walls really do breathe and we just can't see it sober, but the odds are strongly stacked against this. I generally see believing in aliens or deities on account of drug induced experiences as analogous to what I just described.

My primary objection to tantrics claims in this thread were his attempts to compare using mind bending drugs to using a scientific instrument, and his claim that if others could replicate his experience this would offer "proof" that it is true. As a trained scientist, he should know better than to make claims like this.

People promoting psychedelic and/or dissociative drugs as some kind of path to enlightenment is potentially dangerous, and it undermines the efforts of those who are trying to alter the mainstream perception of illicit drugs as insanity inducing neurotoxins.

 

[socko]

Modern neuroscience easily explains away the visual hallucinations one experiences under lsd. Generally, the geometric patterns and breathing walls are artifacts of the physical neuronal wiring in the primary visual cortex. When LSD stimulates these areas, their geometry, the way they are physically organized creates the visual effects. The effect (encountering entities) of dissociative drugs and "break through" psychedelics is harder to explain.

I don't generally believe that taking drugs opens gateways for meeting aliens, or any other type of being, apart from in a hallucinatory sense. I am not saying that it is absolutely impossible these things are occurring, just that it is misleading for people who have undergone these experiences to claim that they are evidence of anything.

When I take LSD the walls look like they are breathing, but it would be delusional for me to believe that this is because the walls actually breathe, and that taking psychedelic drugs revealed the true nature of the world to me. Of course, I can't conclusively disprove that walls really do breathe and we just can't see it sober, but the odds are strongly stacked against this. I generally see believing in aliens or deities on account of drug induced experiences as analogous to what I just described.

My primary objection to tantrics claims in this thread were his attempts to compare using mind bending drugs to using a scientific instrument, and his claim that if others could replicate his experience this would offer "proof" that it is true. As a trained scientist, he should know better than to make claims like this.

People promoting psychedelic and/or dissociative drugs as some kind of path to enlightenment is potentially dangerous, and it undermines the efforts of those who are trying to alter the mainstream perception of illicit drugs as insanity inducing neurotoxins.

 

[lucifane]

This whole statement will make me seem crazy but aliens mananipulate time and mind...The whole world is nothing but a 3d demension and they play our minds how they choose pls be open....

Wouldn't you kno such as a pathway to alter and eventually manipulate time underneath the pretense of a dark and spooky ketamine toke.
Aliens entail extra senses such as is evident in particular species growing antennae
The neither plantlike nor fungilike antennae can cause an alien to shock you when you hit the ember to nonmineral ketamine, leaving your skin to pass the pipebowl to a nonexistant ? alien

 

[drug_mentor]

Modern neuroscience easily explains away the visual hallucinations one experiences under lsd. Generally, the geometric patterns and breathing walls are artifacts of the physical neuronal wiring in the primary visual cortex. When LSD stimulates these areas, their geometry, the way they are physically organized creates the visual effects. The effect (encountering entities) of dissociative drugs and "break through" psychedelics is harder to explain.

That is interesting, I was unaware of this.

I would point out that it is quite logical to think that more complex hallucinations have a more complex explanation, but I am inclined to think that entity contact is something which can be explained more adequately through neuroscience than metaphysics.

I respect that people have the right to interpret these experiences as reality if they wish. However, I think it is important to acknowledge that the epistemic justification for such a belief is based off of intuition and/or faith, not based on rationality, reliable empirical evidence or science.

 

[CosmicG]

Aliens indeed. I am not sure where people get their information on different races and whatnot as I have never personally encountered an ET nor do I know anyone that has, but does that mean I do not believe in aliens? Hell no. The universe is far to vast for us to be the only intelligent life out there. But as other posters have said above me, I am just not convinced that we have made direct physical contact. I certainly have not.

Though I did see a shining ball of fire sitting still in the night air last summer. It was there for a good ten minutes, shooting of sparks and going dim then bright again. I later saw on the news that several of these had been spotted, dying stars or something I can't really remember the exact terminology. My cousin claims to have seen tons of UFO's. He also claims to have seen Bigfoot several times, and lives in a part where many sightings are reported. Getting off track here.

I believe in aliens.

 

[anotherperson]

Believing in aliens can be a completely logical belief. Is it a stretch for a hunter gatherer to think their could be people living on lands past the sea? Then: Like drifting coconuts taking root in a far awayland, space is just an ocean with seeds riding the intergalactic waves spreading life into the cosmos. Its not a stretch or illogical to believe their could be aliens I think. But I guess thats the thing... Its one thing to legitimately believe their could be aliens...and its another thing to say there is scientific evidence for the fact.
Haven't they shown evidence of life has flown around on comets? Dont they think they might find life on Europa?
Does 'alien' need to mean intelligent life? or maybe all life has levels of intelligence (or more appropriately i guess you could see it as 'fields').
Another useful idea here is the idea of water on mars. 30 years ago you where a crackpot for suggesting that it could be possible but now its scientific fact.

So on to more speculation. I put thought into this many years ago. I reckon the modern idea of 'aliens' (if there was such a legitimate experience) could really be many different things happening, potentially simultaniously:

1) physical aliens flying around in physical space
2) future beings (or future humans, or past beings) coming to this time and flying around in physical space
3) Physical aliens that may or may not fly around in physical space but can also travel in another dimension, like mentally, through consciousness or something.
4) non-physical beings travelling in the mental-consciousness dimension and 'channeling' through certain individual's subjectivities (or however one puts it)
5) aspects of an archytype like presence in the collective or individual consciousness representing itself in an image (or something like this; a jungian interpretation)
6) pure delusions

It could really be all of them, or none of them and something else entirely. Maybe we will never know. But what do we have evidence of? That's the question i guess implied by the responses to this thread.

 

[socko]

That is interesting, I was unaware of this.

I would point out that it is quite logical to think that more complex hallucinations have a more complex explanation, but I am inclined to think that entity contact is something which can be explained more adequately through neuroscience than metaphysics.

I respect that people have the right to interpret these experiences as reality if they wish. However, I think it is important to acknowledge that the epistemic justification for such a belief is based off of intuition and/or faith, not based on rationality, reliable empirical evidence or science.

Fair enough. I agree that people interpret these experiences based on what they already believe.

 

[Xorkoth]

Believing in aliens can be a completely logical belief. Is it a stretch for a hunter gatherer to think their could be people living on lands past the sea? Then: Like drifting coconuts taking root in a far awayland, space is just an ocean with seeds riding the intergalactic waves spreading life into the cosmos. Its not a stretch or illogical to believe their could be aliens I think. But I guess thats the thing... Its one thing to legitimately believe their could be aliens...and its another thing to say there is scientific evidence for the fact.
Haven't they shown evidence of life has flown around on comets? Dont they think they might find life on Europa?
Does 'alien' need to mean intelligent life? or maybe all life has levels of intelligence (or more appropriately i guess you could see it as 'fields').
Another useful idea here is the idea of water on mars. 30 years ago you where a crackpot for suggesting that it could be possible but now its scientific fact.

So on to more speculation. I put thought into this many years ago. I reckon the modern idea of 'aliens' (if there was such a legitimate experience) could really be many different things happening, potentially simultaniously:

1) physical aliens flying around in physical space
2) future beings (or future humans, or past beings) coming to this time and flying around in physical space
3) Physical aliens that may or may not fly around in physical space but can also travel in another dimension, like mentally, through consciousness or something.
4) non-physical beings travelling in the mental-consciousness dimension and 'channeling' through certain individual's subjectivities (or however one puts it)
5) aspects of an archytype like presence in the collective or individual consciousness representing itself in an image (or something like this; a jungian interpretation)
6) pure delusions

It could really be all of them, or none of them and something else entirely. Maybe we will never know. But what do we have evidence of? That's the question i guess implied by the responses to this thread.

Absolutely... I feel positive there is life in the universe besides on Earth, it seems entirely illogical and Earth-centric to believe that the rest of the universe is barren of life. I think a whole lot of people at this point realize there must be other life out there, and even if it's uncommon and most planets can't support it (which I'm not even convinced of, who says carbon-based life is the only way?), the universe is SO vast that there must be countless places where life happens. It also seems crazy to believe, to, me, that there isn't any life as advanced as us in all of that space.

But people in this thread are largely talking about intelligent life that has contacted and/or monitors us. And I'm not convinced of that.

 

[Kittycat5]

I tend to believe there are other intelligent lifeforms out there but it is sometimes comforting to think one solution to the Fermi Paradox is that we are the most advanced civilization in the universe. (It can also be frightening at times!!). But I cannot put any faith in drug induced delusions, hallucinations or whatever you want to call it is a proof of extraterrestrial life.

 

[bf88]

When you think of an ET how do you imagine it is? Is it just an insect / reptile / human living off planet? I can tell you with 99% certainty that most 'ET's' do not take a physical form. They are what the religious scriptures call angels / demons / ghosts. The difference between angel and demon is a matter of perspective, if it has been nice to you it was an angel if it was not nice it was a demon. The thing is, people can not grasp the entirety of the situation until they have been on the other side of reality (non drug induced). What I mean by this is having a clear memory of before one is born into a human body. I have met these kinds of beings personally, some are real and some are an 'illusion', the perspective of a person, as mentioned, plays a big role in defining a certain entity / experience.

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ Doesn't it make more sense that life would happen in ways similar to ours on other planets? Ie, a concurrence of events happens that causes life to "seed", and then it begins to slowly evolve? Life formed early on our planet during a time of great chaos in the solar system (which is the case in early solar system life), and large impacts hurled chunks of planets into space, where some escaped gravity... Mars and Earth exchanged some crust. The moon used to be part of Earth. We have found microbes that can survive the vaccuum of space, and in this way, the building blocks of life can be scattered. Or the same conditions could arise on another planet as they did on Earth.

I think the ideas of aliens we've developed are extremely us-centered... we imagine what we know, ie, humanoid, insect-like, reptile-like... maybe life would evolve similarly in other places but likely the different conditions would influence every step of the evolution process, and the result would be something very different from life on Earth. But, IMO, it still exists in countless places out there in the essentially (or maybe truly) infinite universe. Carbon-based, other forms, sentient webs of energy perhaps, who knows?

For the record I believe that sentience/life may very well exist in forms that we can't even recognize because it's so different from carbon-based life on Earth.

 

[Kittycat5]

Reminds me of this, Xorkoth.

http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

 

[Xorkoth]

Nice, never read that before, thanks.

 

[Helpmehelptheworld]

I was recently on an LSD trip and got a little insight into the non-normie world. There were a few topics that occured on their version of the internet (I mean, why use different servers when they already exist right?) and they include -
''How do I change this self harm program?'' I click on it to read that this demon had been able to program his human to do a stabbing motion with the knife but was unable to code the program to slit the arm instead (WHAT THE FUCK?) then there were commenters stating how to fix the code that should be run and that THEIR human was able to self harm easily with ''Command X'' Etc. WHAT THE FUCK???)
'' Why have homo sapiens only evolved so little in the last 10,000 years'' This thread talked about how humans have evolved so little because of their lack of order and the different countries involved and their obsession with fighting each other etc
'' Fucking normies, why are they so fucking lame?'' 97% of the world are ignorant normal people who do not understand what is going on
''How does 4chan work'' 4chan is a website run by a sysadmin. Since time is a mortal thing it just takes posts that were posted earlier and pushes them back later until an algorithm stops them from being visible.
'' How do I make galvanized Iron'' This one is a little vague but basically the thread talked about how to make galvanized iron. Something that stood out to me more than anything was the ease at which they said to JUST TURN UP YOUR HEAT SOURCE TO 1000 DEGREES CELCIUS (OH YEAH RIGHT.. LET ME JUST SET MY OVEN TO THAT AND GET STARTED)

So basically these fuckers are able to manipulate the 4th dimension? Wtf man. And why won't they help humans? Are they not choosen to return home so to speak? I am just so fucking confused.

Also, this world is all made out of code. And to get to ''Heaven'' you need to break the code so to speak. To unlock the gate to get in. And I believe that there are certain humans that will act as key messangers and keep the Replay system in play. What I mean is, the idea of Fate is true. But it needs people, certain humans, to act as the Present. And if they do then they can keep this replay system of the entire entity of the universe and all its events in place. But if you can get these individuals to take LSD and break free from the replay system and die early or get controlled and changed and walked into a different dimension (if a person takes a different path even as simple as walking to class you could be walking into a different end result of your life) then you could potentially find a way to go home early! The reason there are an infinite number of dimensions and possibilites in this world is to act as a fail safe switch so the manipulative engineers (or aliens or demons or satan or whatever) are unable to find these fuckers. But put them on LSD and they may actually be super suspetible to influence and change. /shrug. Just a thought.

God was just an engineer who released his program. Beings are now trying to change this realm for their own liking. It's like hacking but real life version.

Also, I do believe that this is all just being played back to us. That we are in a 'room' somewhere and when we die we wake up. and we get a choice to walk out of the building that we have been placed in. The direction you pick after you wake up is your fate for the end of your life. You either end up in hell or heaven. I dunno though. Maybe someone else can spit ball a little :D

 

[Kittycat5]

But I cannot put any faith in drug induced delusions, hallucinations or whatever you want to call it is a proof of extraterrestrial life.

Just proving my theory helpme.

 

[Helpmehelptheworld]

But understand that the Reddit posts I read was in a state of mind AFTER tripping. /shrug. So sure, I could've been affected. But come on. 6 hours later? really? of 2-cb? I mean. Even if you cut out all the weird shit that happened. You can't change what I READ lol.

Iuno. It's interesting to say the least. Maybe when you die you'll remember this statment Just keep it on a VERY far back burner. Go with your gut. Go with what feels right rather than what you think is right. It's up to you doe. Just a suggestion is all