The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread, Volume 1

[Thomas Davie]

You're probably right neurotic. This idea of 1P-LSD being active in its own right, and more readily able to cross the BBB, could easily be fanciful thinking.

Perhaps. But there is something that users can do to help determine this (it does depend on fastidious note taking though).

You know the tolerance curve for mushrooms/LSD that people have contributed to that is viewable on this site? Well, if people are willing to put that much effort into 1p-LSD, it might be possible to get a better idea of whether or not the drug can cross the BBB.

1) note whether you take the drug buccal/sublingual (say 15 minutes and then spit out or swallow) or oral (straight down the hatch, no leaving it around in the mouth at all). Having previously written down what you have eaten in the last 12 hours (I figure that's enough time to account for stomach emptying and note whether or not you've had a bowel movement in this time period.

2) write down how quickly first alerts/effects are felt

3) write down, if possible, how strong (out of 10) you feel the trip is.

Only data point 3 is subjective; the other 2 are objective facts. If there is a difference in how the drugs hits buccal/sublingual .vs. oral then you have some kind of answer to this question.

As an example thought idea, even if you take the drug orally, absorption might be delayed sufficiently that, even though the BBB could be crossed you won't notice speed of onset (or perhaps strength of effect). Buccal/sublingual should see both affected if true BBB passage is seen.

Tom

 

[AmoebicMagician]

I may have made a mistake when I said this compound was lacking in the visual spectrum, I think what I should have said is that it's effects are highly variable, just like LSD-25 but moreso

Since I tripped my face off to literally the next dimension quite recently, I had thought that there would be some tolerance issues. Expecting a very very mild trip, I dosed 100ug of the old predictable blotters. Because of my experience on July 4th, I had thought perhaps the newer blotters were dosed higher or something, so...

Drop 1 tab with coffee after a light breakfast of fruit at 7:00 AM as is my ritual for day trips during the summer months.

I had made mild and easy to fulfill plans and thought I would not have a full on trip, and if I did, it would not be a visual one but more of a head trip.

Swallowed tab at 7:08am exactly

7:30 first alerts, maybe? feeling a little energy building, like a static charge in my guts and skin.

8:00 nothing, still static, but otherwise nothing.

8:30 still nothing... figure this is all I'm getting, but since there is a phase come up I've experienced with this compound, I figure maybe it will become a little stronger just a bit, later. I resolve to be happy with where I am at.

~9:00?
I AM ALL OF A SUDDEN TRIPPING BALLS. The ceiling is receding and advancing, the world is a strobe light of different colors in pastel cartoon beauty. I am so surprised that my first feeling is fear and apprehension. Finding my way through thought loops and time warps and the idea of ungrounded concepts that I rely on for my existence, and the idea that society rests on a framework of insubstantial ideas, much like currency and many other insubstantial things that are not in fact, as it were, specie, but things we assign values and concepts to- the agreement is where the magic is. This is not being explained well, none of this was in english, it was pure thought.

After what seemed like both forever and a very short time, during which I had INCREDIBLY DETAILED OEVs, to include beautiful women dancing on my ceiling and morphing out of the trees in a painting on the wall. Usually when I trip, I can see things tangentially. I know I am seeing it with my eyes only tangentially, the trick is focusing the mind's eye. This time, I COULD TOTALLY FOCUS MY REGULAR EYES ON IT AND TAKE IN EVERY DETAIL, there was nothing transient or insubstantial about it, it was as real and detailed as a television image.

Eventually I came back to myself enough to speak english, and picked back up my notes at about 4:00pm- I will reproduce them here verbatim

4:23 I don't understand how, this is the unexpected universal glory that finds you only when you are not looking for it. PAPER MONEY IS WORTHLESS!

5:09 Everything is real again except when I close my eyes. Tangerines change into onions filled with windows filled with the DNA of the universe, coded into it are well wishes and the need for fairness and minds to perceive the beauty.

6:35 taking a xanax, that was COMPLETELY unexpected. What a ride

from there the notes end. After 1.5mg alprazolam I fell into a peaceful slumber and awoke the next day feeling AMAZING, just thankful to eat and breathe and change O2 into CO2 and shed skin cells and spread love.

The only thing I can account for this is that I have been eating a lot more vegetables lately, mainly Hummus and Felafel and other things made from Garbanzos.

 

[al-laddin]

Fair enough but in the experience you describe, users experienced different effects but I don't think they had all the same effect from the red pill. With 1p there is consensus on several concordant effect.
Might be auto suggestion but I don't buy it.
Might be that the timing creates different effect.
Might be a prodrug of something else than lsd.
Or might be active on its own.
Anyway for me 1p has definitely a different flavor than lsd corroborated by others experience.

Im in complete agreement 1p was significantly different. The most telling effect for me was that 1p "cut off" after about 7 hours....there was a rapid descent to normalcy much like psilocin whereas LSD causes a residual stimulation that lasts up to 16+ hours after taking it....with LSD sometimes i will still have some slight visual effects the next day even.

As for visuals and mental effects they indeed feel much different to me ...but Im open to that being just placebo...

Aslo...what peacephrog said

Also , if 1p is active sublingually would that mean its active alone?

So, Amoebic Magician, what do you make of this? It seems what happened to you here is what happend to me ? One tab really got you? Im very very intrigued because it seems you have been taking heroic doses and now you take just one and it takes you just as far? Or am I mistaken. Im very interested to hear what you think

 

[Help?!?!]

It really wouldn't be that absurd if it was. I mean firstly when you look at most pro drugs that have well known pharmacology, they can take a second until effects actually being due to them needing first pass metabolism to become the secondary active chemical. It might not be huge for some compounds but it should be at least slightly noticeable. All the talk is just speculation, it's been proven before that guesses on how something should metabolize in the body through previous evidence have been totally off. There's the instance that most people here are familiar with, 4-AcO-DMT. It surely feels different from plain psilocin as well as mushrooms. Nearly everyone agrees. I'm pretty certain that 4-PO-DMT doesn't seem to have any effects on its own besides metabolizing into psilocin. It could well be that 1P-LSD is active on its own. Maybe it only partially metabolizes to LSD but 1P-LSD has effects in its own right. Could be why it feels so similar to LSD but has effects unlike LSD. Probably but at this point no one knows. Also, just because it's active sublingually doesn't mean it's active on its own. That rule goes for IV administration and maybe IM. If I had some I would definitely IM it just to see....

 

[stanleyK]

Swallowed tab at 7:08am exactly

7:30 first alerts, maybe? feeling a little energy building, like a static charge in my guts and skin.

8:00 nothing, still static, but otherwise nothing.

8:30 still nothing... figure this is all I'm getting, but since there is a phase come up I've experienced with this compound, I figure maybe it will become a little stronger just a bit, later. I resolve to be happy with where I am at.

~9:00?
I AM ALL OF A SUDDEN TRIPPING BALLS.

If you directly swallowed the tab after a meal, two hours seems normal.

 

[AmoebicMagician]

Im in complete agreement 1p was significantly different. The most telling effect for me was that 1p "cut off" after about 7 hours....there was a rapid descent to normalcy much like psilocin whereas LSD causes a residual stimulation that lasts up to 16+ hours after taking it....with LSD sometimes i will still have some slight visual effects the next day even.

As for visuals and mental effects they indeed feel much different to me ...but Im open to that being just placebo...

Aslo...what peacephrog said

Also , if 1p is active sublingually would that mean its active alone?

So, Amoebic Magician, what do you make of this? It seems what happened to you here is what happend to me ? One tab really got you? Im very very intrigued because it seems you have been taking heroic doses and now you take just one and it takes you just as far? Or am I mistaken. Im very interested to hear what you think

The vast vast vast majority of my experiments have been with between 1-4 blotters, my usual dose being 2-2.5 blotters.

They have all done their jobs to some degree, but many times the visual element was, not lacking, but maybe subdued.

This time it was CRAZY, it came out of nowhere, was INCREDIBLY VISUAL, and then was gone completely the next day. I was pretty much back to normal by the time I took the xanax to sleep. It was more to get to bed than to put a cap on the trip.

I still feel OUTSTANDING about life as I write this.

It was almost like an acid trip where all the drug was released directly into my brain in an incredibly short amount of time.

I had thought there would be some tolerance issues, not because of heroic dosing, but because of the use of this substance many times in the regular dosage window in the near past. My highest doses were the next day or shortly after previous trips, once taking six blotters, and in that experience it acted much like LSD would tolerance wise.

I have since gone back and checked under the black light, with a magnifying glass. The blotter appears by all accounts and testing to be evenly dosed. This compound is just full of (WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!) surprises.

One thing I can say for sure though, is that I now realize almost all the doses of LSD-25 I received in the past, I overestimated the ug dosage on each blotter.

I am so happy this is legal, this has been one of the best summers of my entire life.

 

[AmoebicMagician]

If you directly swallowed the tab after a meal, two hours seems normal.

not for me. A very very light breakfast of fruit (like a few bites of cantaloupe and some orange juice) is my norm for daytime tripping, and almost always strong effects are felt by 1 hour in.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well there's a big difference between a very light meal of easily digested food and a full meal where you feel full afterwards or have eaten meat, etc. I absorb drugs faster if I have eaten just a bit shortly before but if I get full it strongly hampers absorption.

 

[Thomas Davie]

Well there's a big difference between a very light meal of easily digested food and a full meal where you feel full afterwards or have eaten meat, etc. I absorb drugs faster if I have eaten just a bit shortly before but if I get full it strongly hampers absorption.

You do mean for subsequent oral consumption of drugs, correct? A full stomach shouldn't affect insufflation or sublingual/buccal consumption of drugs.

Tom

 

[MetalMadhouse]

It really wouldn't be that absurd if it was. I mean firstly when you look at most pro drugs that have well known pharmacology, they can take a second until effects actually being due to them needing first pass metabolism to become the secondary active chemical. It might not be huge for some compounds but it should be at least slightly noticeable. All the talk is just speculation, it's been proven before that guesses on how something should metabolize in the body through previous evidence have been totally off. There's the instance that most people here are familiar with, 4-AcO-DMT. It surely feels different from plain psilocin as well as mushrooms. Nearly everyone agrees. I'm pretty certain that 4-PO-DMT doesn't seem to have any effects on its own besides metabolizing into psilocin. It could well be that 1P-LSD is active on its own. Maybe it only partially metabolizes to LSD but 1P-LSD has effects in its own right. Could be why it feels so similar to LSD but has effects unlike LSD. Probably but at this point no one knows. Also, just because it's active sublingually doesn't mean it's active on its own. That rule goes for IV administration and maybe IM. If I had some I would definitely IM it just to see....

I think that it could be possible when you say that 1P-LSD is both active on it's own and metabolised into LSD. I held the tabs in my mouth for 5/10 minutes before swallowing on my most recent trip, and noticed that the effects began to come on within around an hour, where as all my previous attempts of just eating the tab have taken much longer to come on. This could be a result of LSD working before the 1P-LSD has metabolised. I also noted a sightly more subdued trip when using this method, however this could be due to extensive research

Also, has anyone tried combining this with the 'big daddy'? perhaps if there is little variation between the combination and the 1P-LSD experience, it could sort of support the above theory?

 

[SpiritualHealing]

Some people asked David Nichols during Breaking Convention in Greenwich last weekend, whether the theories of some people on Bluelight stating that 1P-LSD is active itself could be possible.
He said that the substance itself is very unlikely to bind to any receptors due to the 1 propionyl substitution, which has been shown in unpublished research by other groups known to him.
1P-LSD is readily hydrolysed to LSD and due to that process slightly less potent by weight than LSD itself.

My personal thought on this is, that most people underestimate the potency of pure LSD and the variety of possible experiences. It is noticeably active at 20 mcg (!)..
I guess David Nichols talk will be published in the coming days: http://2015.breakingconvention.co.uk/video-home/

 

[Thomas Davie]

Some people asked David Nichols during Breaking Convention in Greenwich last weekend, whether the theories of some people on Bluelight stating that 1P-LSD is active itself could be possible.
He said that the substance itself is very unlikely to bind to any receptors due to the 1 propionyl substitution, which has been shown in unpublished research by other groups known to him.
1P-LSD is readily hydrolysed to LSD and due to that process slightly less potent by weight than LSD itself.

My personal thought on this is, that most people underestimate the potency of pure LSD and the variety of possible experiences. It is noticeably active at 20 mcg (!)..
I guess David Nichols talk will be published in the coming days: http://2015.breakingconvention.co.uk/video-home/

With due respect to Mr. Nichols, I don't think he can possibly discount transfer of 1p-LSD across the BBB and then subsequent hydrolysis by brain specific esterases (which are present in the mammalian brain). It's unfortunate that someone with a license is not likely to label a hydrogen or the terminal carbon in the propionyl group and run a brain scan to see if the unhydrolyzed molecule is present at any levels in the brain. The 1p-LSD molecule does not have to survive and bind to a(the) receptor to be unique; merely surviving the BBB would confer uniqueness over and as opposed to LSD.

Tom

 

[neurotic]

^ fair point. some of it could be metabolized into LSD before and some after crossing the BBB, and at different levels by different people, accounting for more difference between individuals

but, while no scientist looks for radiolabeled 1P-LSD in a brain, it's all speculation and we're not really going anywhere

It's too bad it's nearly impossible to get accurate numbers for LSD doses. I'd love to know how much I've *actually* taken.

hell yes! i'd love to be able to accurately dose acid and be able to have trips of my desired strength at the time... one day perhaps

 

[stanleyK]

Just taked 200µ at 9am on empty stomach. Then breakfast.
Can feel something after 30'. Get into it afetr 1 hour.
So for me it seems faster than sublingual.

 

[stanleyK]

I'm in it now. Nice trip. Nothing overwhelmed. As it should then

 

[AmoebicMagician]

Well there's a big difference between a very light meal of easily digested food and a full meal where you feel full afterwards or have eaten meat, etc. I absorb drugs faster if I have eaten just a bit shortly before but if I get full it strongly hampers absorption.

This is literally exactly my same experience, and why I optimized my morning time daytime tripping ritual as such.

Also, there is much less nausea associated with nearly every compound this way.

 

[stanleyK]

Normally I always eat something comfortable before the trip starts.
Otherwise hypoglycemia can sometimes gives a edge I dislike (not always tho )

 

[Hecaten]

I am now about two hours into an experience. I took 100 micrograms around midday and I figured I'd give some impressions of my current state before I become unable to coherently do so.

For the first hour the effects were quite mild and mostly physical, a tingling in my limbs, a slight numbness accompanied by minor spasms as my muscles relaxed. I have used LSD in the past to control my anxiety, which is what I was hoping to get from this and I think I've lost a lot of tension over the past couple of hours.

There was a period where my chest felt very hollow and I , my motor controls are fuzzy, leading to a little trembling, but mostly I feel the need to move about a lot. I'm enjoying movement a lot.

Now I seem to be sliding into the main phase of the trip. I feel very warm, my vision is beginning to melt and flow. I can read and recognise text when I concentrate, but it's becoming increasingly difficult. The experience is comfortable.

 

[zombywoof]

any anxiety get some music on through the headphones you wont regret it

 

[Hecaten]

I have aspergers and my social anxieties can be crippling, but acid makes them all fly away. I believe LSD should be considered for medical use in treating some mood disorders.
I've been for a walk, and now I feel very light. Visual effects are still there, but the exercise has contextualised the physical sensations. Still feeling mellow. My mood is best described as 'inflated'