RCs 3F-Phenmetrazine (3-FPM)

[Savinsky]

Yes I have actually, over a period of 3 and a half years, close to 2 years of daily use, and it all tends to be about maintenance at the end of the day, gets far to much and so does tolerence, also the need to have to use before certain commitments or events, even eating on meth, you need to eat alot, unfathomable amounts, but then you cant because you need 2x more to get high, weed has to be kept under a heavy hand of control, otherwise you go into a semi-psychosis.

I use a whole range of health/longevity products also, alpha-lipoic acid for depletion of dopamine, lithium orotate for dealing with instabilities, along with 3x a week exercise and proline rich poly-peptides, and all i managed to do was be on the drug, and go through life, hence when i stopped using, came pro-longed sleep, little pleasure/drive and being uninterested in what is important in life, even though being aware these are side-effects which reside with time, 2 phases of meth has left me not really liking it anymore, unless it was for free, or copious amounts could be acquired.

This phenmetrazine can say, has removed all my thoughts of the drug, prior to meth, I was using M.DPV for a solid year, that I could say is the only reason why I handled meth so easily, before encountering MDPV, I would binge on meth for a few days every couple months or so, but everybody should know how benign and powerful m.dpv is/can be, its just not doable.

I ended up getting myself to sleep with 6.25mg hydroxyzine, it came with great ease, and in a very subtle pleasant way, I am just about ready to give another pipe a go soon, after sleeping, this stuff feels fucking awesome, the next day, eating, concentration, social depth, great stuff, and could easily skip it, for now its just a luxury, and I really want to see 3-fpm's effectivenes over a long duration/tolerence, the same as the other 2 of my fav drugs of abuse, for now this is really my new filler.

Also 3-fpm keeps you looking quite good, even after prolonged activity and lack of sleep, another way I see this stuff, is like an amplifier/enchancer of mood/thought, like you can wait to use until you feel good for whatever reason, then bang, amplification X5.

Also throughout meth use, doses of alpha-lipoic where 3x a day, and mirtazapine was taken mid day 15mg, and a further 30mg whenever sleep would be needed, being on this 3-fpm, I cant even imagine how powerful it would be with mirtazapine, the script is there lol, but no need, and for me to say that, thats something, usually I use it to boost everything, and I should note I quit nicotine and alcohol about 18 months ago, entirely, and I was a heavy binge drinker, never really done much for me at all.

 

[crOOk]

Also 3-fpm keeps you looking quite good, even after prolonged activity and lack of sleep, another way I see this stuff, is like an amplifier/enchancer of mood/thought, like you can wait to use until you feel good for whatever reason, then bang, amplification X5.

Haha that reminds me of my recent visit to the ER with the abscess I shot during my 3F-P induced missio sanguinis compulsions. I walk in with healthy tan, healthy skin, perfect grooming and healthy weight, fresh clothes, shirt buttoned up all the way - The doc gives me this really sceptical evaluating look that I won't forget: "You don't look like an IV drug user..." He even told my buddy (surgeon in the same ER) about it the next day when he was back at work lol. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

You can boost stimulants with mirtazapine? Isn't that actually a selective dopamine agonist in higher doses? I have some here, never thought of it.

EDIT: Never mind, it's primarily noradrenergic and serotonergic. I'd be very careful when combining 3F-P with other serotonergics. I was fine with Tramadol and didn't notice any excessive serotonin activity (I usually get visual disturbances for lack of a better word, saliva becomes a lot more mucous, *yaaaaaawn*, my temperature rises, tremor becomes apparent and I generally won't exactly feel on top of it lol; mania has developed in that state before, but not reliably so).

It indeed seems like an amazing substance as you say, but the apparent chance for neurotoxic damage should worry us!!

 

[Akoistin]

3F-phenmetrazine

16.00 140mg iv and 2 hours later 160 mg iv. its good high. little short, but compare to amphetamine now I can sleep at night.

 

[Real-it-y]

Hi.

This stuff is really dangerous to IV. Diluted to ~50mg / ml. Around 1g consumed in 20 hours. Have what I believe to be a arterial embolism in wrist.

If this is the case it is simply "luck" that this has not resulted in stroke or heart attack. I want people to be aware of the massive risk they are embarking on by considering injecting this noxious, caustic (prothrombotic?)substance.

Also have some pain in calf muscles, backround headache and some chest discomfort at times. Last few days just waiting for potential severe increase in sequalae of adverse effects.

In my experience the high wasnt that great anyway. Repeated doses and escalations (never over 180mg) to try to discover what others "see" in this.


Avoid at all costs.

Good luck

Real-it-y

 

[Sprout]

Savinsky; I enjoyed reading your posts, primarily because of the vast shift in opinion. I didn't 'get' this substance until I'd used it several times and through a few ROA's - I went from 'Meh, like MPA with a twist' to 'Holy Fuck I love this stuff!' once I found my 'sweet spot'.

You are the only person I've found who also made the comparison with Meth, too. To me, it is right up there alongside M-Amp, Cocaine, 4-MAR and Meph.
Hell, I'd take 3-FPM over almost every other stim after pushing it recently.

Usually, by the start of Day 3 (48hr into the binge), every other stim would induce typical psychosis which worsens rapidly. I hit Day 6 with this before the voices/hallucinations became a concern, but even by that point I felt physically smooth. After a few hours sleep and some food, I was feeling perfectly fine. I did not feel, nor look, like I'd spent the best part of a week smoking a potent dopamine releaser! 8(

I'm coming to the end of my 5g bag (arrived immediately after I finished 1.5g), but more will definitely be ordered!
Watch your use with this, seriously, treat it like you would lab-grade Meth.
I'm well on my way to gaining an addiction to this stuff, but it allows me to skip benzo/opioid usage even when physically dependent!

After smoking a few lines with me, a friend (with vast experience with Crack/Speed) remarked 'Wow! This is just like rock, but so smooth!'.


Cr00k; you mention you rarely receive the empathogenic qualities anymore, only the jump from functional to DA euphoria - I'm noticing the same after extended use.
Did you ever try smoking instead of IV?

Also; the freebase form is more potent than the salt when vaping, as one would expect. Oddly, however, it no longer liquefies and runs, seeming to sublime from solid to vapour effortlessly, with much less heat.

Stay safe, guys.

 

[steewith2ees]

Ive managed to leave it alone for the last fortnight but as i needed a restock on diclazepam and clonazepam i thought id treat myself to a cheeky half gram, just so I can try and restrain myself and not fiend it all before the pub on friday

 

[crOOk]

This stuff is really dangerous to IV. Diluted to ~50mg / ml. Around 1g consumed in 20 hours. Have what I believe to be a arterial embolism in wrist.

If this is the case it is simply "luck" that this has not resulted in stroke or heart attack. I want people to be aware of the massive risk they are embarking on by considering injecting this noxious, caustic (prothrombotic?)substance.

Also have some pain in calf muscles, backround headache and some chest discomfort at times. Last few days just waiting for potential severe increase in sequalae of adverse effects.

In my experience the high wasnt that great anyway. Repeated doses and escalations (never over 180mg) to try to discover what others "see" in this.

Well I said it over and over... 42mg/ml max or it will just eat through your tissue, cause extravasal inflammation whereever it leaks etc.

However, how in the hell would you get an arterial embolism due to your route of administration? The stuff is supposed to go into your veins, just about anything will cause an embolism when it enter's arteries (of your systemic circulation). When you cause a blood klot or whatever else could block an artery in one of your veins, it has to travel back to the heart and from there go through the lungs (unless you have a patent foramen ovale which leaves a small chance for it to re-enter systemic circulation, skipping the lung circulation). An embolism can not go through the lung arteries without getting stuck, but then get stuck in a peripheral artery.

So that should come as a relief to you.

It indeed seems as if this was increasing coagulation somehow, but only at concentrations above 42mg/ml (of the substance I had anyway). At 43 it would start burning infinitely more intense and leave behind lumps.

How did you get the idea of having an arterial embolism?

Are you experiencing paresthesia or hypesthesia of the extremeties?
Did you feel a lump where a superficial vein is running?

If the former is true and you haven't directly injected into an artery, then I would blame this on neurotoxicity which there is strong indication for in the light of what others experienced.
If the latter is true, chances are you have a veinous thrombosis. You should get on 100mg ASS to keep the blood from clotting further. If the inflammation is very painful, Ibuprofen should help. It will reduce ASS anticoagulative properties in higher doses though.

Ideally, you should go have it checked out in an ER since you don't seem to be entirely sure what it is you are experiencing.

Pain in the calf muscles is also an indicator for DVT of the leg. There are a few pressure points that aid in raising suspicion for the diagnosis, google those. It is more likely you have sore muscles due to the increased muscle tension under the stimulant's effects.

This could have probably been prevented entirely, if you had kept your concentration between 35 and 40mg/ml. Sucks, huh? That's why we got these Big and Dandy threads... :/

This is definitely a nasty drug when used in doses of several 100mg, especially when the concentration is above 40mg/ml. However low doses seem very tolerable and pose less side effects than many other stimulants. It's us who are to be blamed for our own recklessness.

EDIT: I had both a thrombophlebitis (superficial thrombosis) of the upper extremity as well as an abscess (due to lack of hygiene though) off this substance. Not mentioning the neurogenic pain that has only recently resolved after a period of abstinence. Welcome to reality!
What's funny though, I came to those realizations early enough to dump my remaining 450g of the half kg I ordered for personal use. The rush is not really letting go of me though. I actually requested a 5g sample for the 'crystalline' version after 2 or 3 weeks of abstinence and am awaiting that impatiently. :/

EDIT2: I must also warn people from peparing a lot of liquid for a session at 42mg/ml and then letting that sit in the open until the respective shot is drawn up. Enough water will evaporate to increase the concentration above what seems to be the critical threshold, at least in my case it does. Best prefilter shots at 35mg/ml and store them inside the syringe , but only if a 200nm filter has been used, otherwise pathogens might replicate while the solution sits.

 

[gymstud]

you dumped 450 grams of this?
were? should of gave it mr

 

[crOOk]

Toilet. I am known for doing this. Shortly before I actually found a pound of MDPV which I had once intended to use before it became illegal and actually forgot to throw away when I intended to. That, too, was turned into a treat for the local sewer's rats.

http://www.vice.com/read/hamiltons-pharmacopia-did-this-guy-trash-a-100000-drug-stash

Cough cough. Unfortunately these pictures were deleted from the bluelight galleries a couple of months after I had posted them in summer 2006. Just like the thread about my DMT lab explosion (people were really kind to me when that happened), only time I've ever been really pissed about the bluelight administration. Those were the days. Now I'm just brutally addicted.

 

[Sprout]

Cr00k, did you ever note visual changes as a result of your 3-FPM use?

Also, yikes!

 

[crOOk]

In fact I did during the first times I used it. I was administering intravenous injections of ~400mg each at the time and did notice some slight visual changes as if I had taken a serotonergic drug. I am very sensitive to these changes and will even get them on low dose citalopram. 600mg amphetamine sulfate have once given me such bad visuals that I could hardly see anymore. I have never heard this reported by anyone else, so I would not be surprised if nobody else experiences visuals on 3F-P either.

There were a few more indicators of serotonergic activity, but again take this with a grain of salt. I can actually see my eyelids drop seconds after a 3F-P injection to the point I would extremely stoned. I strongly doubt this is due to dopaminergic or noradrenergic activity, but there are other possibilities. I expect 3F-P to have negligible serotonergic effects at low doses, but possibly more significant of such activity at higher doses. We just cannot be sure, but I would still be very careful when combining it with other serotonergics, it does not necessarily take two strong serotonergic drug to induce serotonin syndrome which can be very unpleasant and even lethal occasionally.

 

[Sprout]

I can relate to your experiences much more after prolonged use of 3-FPM.
We've both posted and debated SE activity numerous times, and reported similar but unexpected phenomena.

Redosing seems to be the key factor in whether serotonergic visual effects present, initially I thought of them as rather extensive, intricate sleep deprivation related disturbances.
However, they are not consistent in character with those caused by SD, and occur in absence of deprivation.

Starting as subtle 'orbs' of blue, green, red and yellow, the visual effects are now manifesting with tracers. Complete arcing tracers with size distortion and altered depth perception.
Strobing is also present occasionally.

Seems odd for only the pair of us to report, though I think we're the ultimate 3-FPM guinea-pigs!

 

[crOOk]

Oh, wait. What I was referring to where visuals that appear seconds after the first dose. After prolonged use (roughly ~30h awake I'd say) I start getting quite a few visuals. It's like there is a very thin green liquid veil before my eyes that is in constant motion, very hard to describe. While I have never seen this on amphetamine or other stimulants, I blamed it on dehydration. I spend the entire time in front of the PC whenever I am not making a mess of my apartment by painting pictures with my own blood lol (weirdest compulsion ever, only happens on 3F-P, don't even ask what drives me). I also tend to drink even less than on other stimulants since I become so compulsive and just don't find a chance to reach for that open bottle that is sitting next to me. That's why I figured it could very well just be my eyes. I've had issues with them before due to dehydration.

Well and then there are the full-blown hallucinations, obviously. Songs playing in my head, people in the corner of my eyes, nothing major, no paranoia, surely not what you were referring to.

Yeah indeed, a lot of the problems associated with our use seem to be a consequence of excessive and prolonged dosing. Can you help me out here and tell me what doses you were using? I can't remember and am too lazy to scroll back.

Btw what other medication are you on?

Here's another interesting tidbit: The serotonergic effects were most obvious when I was still on bupropion. They might be competing for the same binding sites, leaving more 3F-P for causing serotonergic activity. I did however not notice a significant increase in strength when I stopped taking bupropion, as many people seem be to reporting an increased stimulant tolerance while on it.

At the time of my experiments I was on 300mg Lamotrigine for treatment of bipolar disorder (a standout med btw, not a single depressed day since I started using it!).

 

[Sprout]

The visuals certainly fade with the "rush", about 5 minutes after I dose, they are mainly gone - but incredible nystagmus makes reading difficult.
I am quite severely short-sighted (minus 10), whether that is of any significance I am unsure.

Sure, the typical stim-binge delusions are there: my neighbours discussing my use, music playing in the other room, knocks at the door, but they seem to occur with both reduced frequency and intensity than would after a similar binge on Coke/M-Amp.

I have been wary of posting my dosages for fear of them being taken as a recommendation, I tend to inhale 100-150mg with intervals between doses usually about 80 minutes. 300mg+ and I won't touch the stuff for 6-8 hours. Largest dose: 400mg. I am very much a binge-user so "excessive and prolonged" would be accurate.

Taking no prescribed meds, currently continuing my opioid love-affair with Fentanyl, and frequently use benzos (oddly, I don't take them when binging on 3-FPM, at least not until the WD becomes unbearable or the comedown hits).

Amfebutamone is a weird drug pharmacologically, and I can't say I have a great deal of knowledge on it. It makes sense to me that co-administration would cause increased effects, given the re-uptake inhibition - though isn't Amfebutamone hypothesised to have both releasing and re-uptake inhibitory qualities? I'm aware DRA's also act as DRI's due to TAAR1/VMAT2 function, but Zyban seems to act in a different way.
One would also have to factor in the effect of Bupropion at Ach receptor sites and its metabolism.

Like I said, I'm far from educated on Bupropion so I could be talking nonsense.

Actually... like many others, I reported a lack of desire to smoke tobacco when on 3-FPM, is it possible that, like Amfebutone, 3-FPM has an antagonistic effect at NAChR sites?

 

[Hammilton]

Crook, on the subject of treating overdoses, benzodiazepines are usually first line treatment in America, followed by symptomatic treatment as necessary. For both stimulant and psychedelic ODs, that is.

 

[whitegreen]

I don't mean to disrespect anyone with whatever I am writing now, however this post might sound in the end I only mean well. It all might seem like ramblings but it's because I don't dare to refill 3-FPM again to get my head straight.

From what I have been gathering online (including but not excluding Bluelight) the comedown on this one is slow and can (and most likely will after a long regular use) hit you eventually. Man I am NOT clear in the head right now... due to 3-FPM, or the lack of it I guess, and the lack of sleep.

Roughly one hour ago I decided to once again Google 3-FPM but this time I choose results from the past week in the Search result options and found a post somewhere about it having slow metabolites (bare in mind I am not at all known to these expressions but I'm pretty sure I have metabolites figured out, anything else chemistry-related I will most likely not understand) which means that the withdrawal effects will take some days before they come.

After reading that post it made me realize that I probably have gone through too much lately but judging from some members posts (this is what I mean about not meaning to disrespect anyone, I don't judge, period) I feel like my dosages has been "under control". Like everyone else I have felt the high risk of a probable addiction. And me not really being the "type to get addicted" (except once for a few months on benzos but I got through it alone with no real issues in the end) I feel like I might be "addicted" to this stuff. But on the other hand maybe not. So I would like to ask all of you but particularly the members with most experience on this one and maybe with good knowledge in the chemistry behind it.

I really don't hope I overstep the boundaries now, with this being my first post and all but I am here with nothing but love and pure non-judgmental thoughts. (<- I really hope that means what I think it does, English is not my native language.) And I post this question for my own safety and for others who come later and might be in the same position as me.

Anyhow, with all that out of the way. What kind of symptoms do you think I can prepare to challenge after a month of regular use with a total of maybe 4g? When will I first experience them and how long would you estimate that I have to face them for?
My experience with stims is very limited, some X's during 2006 and 2007 and molly one time a few years later, that's basically it. And a therapeutic dose of 0.12g of speed, it made me feel tired.
After reading backwards more than half the thread I realize that 4g doesn't seem like much, especially not over a period of a whole month. But then again I am not familiar with the chemistry and how the metabolites might work when it has been such low doses over this kind of period and building up a tolerance.

I think the most 3-FPM I have done "in one sitting" is 1g over a time-span of maybe 60 hours and with only 5 hours of sleep. But I always took care of getting enough of food in me everyday, even though I wasn't hungry at all and I didn't really want to eat it. But I know how important food and water is to the human body so I forced myself through eating my regular portions of food each day.

I have never taken any dose above 80mg at once, I have been keeping them on maybe 10 to tops 70mg and redosing every now and then, more in the beginning and then less often after a while.

Regarding the "blackouts" mentioned in the thread, at first I thought you meant "memory loss" when you wrote "blackout" but it suddenly hit me that you might actually mean the kind of "blackout" that you can get from when not having eaten much in a while and rise from a lying or sitting position too quickly. This happened to me in the beginning so that's why I continued eating normally to see if the "blackouts" stopped but they have still occurred from time to time.

But! I have been off it for a few days a few times and the only thing I remember I felt was being over-irritable to anything and anyone in my environment. Normally I'm an easy-going, open-minded guy with a lot of patience towards other living beings. (Ill-willing computers and software or games with bugs is a whole different thing! )
Regarding physical side-effects the ONLY thing I have experienced is very very mild increased heart rate and minor headaches (two or three times) that lasted for only tops 10 minutes. I'm a migraine sufferer so I know when to 'appreciate' a headache if you know what I mean. And also the "tingling" on the skin on different parts of my body, but this has only been nothing but pleasurable.

So that's me not hoping to overstep my boundaries. I should mention that I am considering flushing the rest I have left which is maybe 1.3g. But I will keep it in case the withdrawals becomes way too heavy, I also have some minor benzos for that. I guess I'm just looking for some reassurances here, I know we are all different but do you guys think I'm "in the clear"? Meaning I won't be going through hell just to get back to life as it was. Like I had to experience from alpraz-abuse.
I guess it's not possible to taper down on stims like you can on benzos and opiates or am I quite off here? I would love nothing more than to use the rest I have left to taper down if that is possible, otherwise I will just ride it out.

And just for the record, it took me the good of two whole hours to write this post, and I have to admit I did take just a small refill here in the end to read through the text and I guess it looks okay during the circumstances.

Sincerely and with all kindness,
whitegreen

 

[gymstud]

well im onto my fith 3gram bag and last night i managed to have a few sniffs and put away like a good boy fingers crossed i may be able to have this stuff in without giong throught whole stash in one binge like every other time

 

[gorestep]

Hi guys not posted here for a couple years after my Meph meltdown, took some time off. It wrecked me meph, but still I search for original 4-MMC I'm yet to find it. Real 4-MMC I mean.

1g of crystallineish 3fpm looked like a mix of powder n crystal tbh

Any way, 3fpm

Strange chemical - the effects I can't even describe properly as it's like no atom I've taken before

Was doing around 80-120mg lines each dose and a gram lasted me 15 hours.

Gave me the urge to do stuff but then not do it at the beginning, after around half a gram. I started cleaning the house

Then I remembers the lady at the ecig shop didn't believe I used to be in an emo band ( I'm now 240 lbs 10% body fat I'm a bodybuilder ) so out of no where I burn her an album with all are old songs on and drop it off lol out of no where. She was like.......thanks lol

Euphoria - I can't tell at times it felt wonderful music was enhanced but the euphoria was very short lived then it was just mental stimulation and a kind of euphoria hard to fully explain.

Parents came round today, talking to them was incredibly easy but not chatting shit, u can't really tell ur on anything in my opinion I didn't get the huge eyes some people talk about.

Very decent mood lift.
Confidence
Slight euphoria
Content with everything
Positive minded

Does anyone else find it hard to explain the effects of this quite hard to articulate? It's not like other stims.

I finished my dose at 2am

It's not 8am and in still wired. Not high but stimulated. Made the mistake of not getting benzos or alcohol!!!

Did a water extraction of some codein that chilled me for a few hours but now I feel like I've had like 10 cups of coffe.

Quite uncomfortable tbh now. No chance of sleep.

I can see huge addiction with this
I want to go and get more right now, and probably will visit my head shops near me to see if they stock it if they don't I'm not gna get any other stim - that shows u it's power, usually if just pick any other stim up to continue the sesh

But ATM I'm thinking 3-fpm or nothing.

The only thing stoping me is I'm thinking why? It not that great really lol. It's a good chem real nice
But nothing on the lines of meph
I like to be WIRED! And I also don't think this would be to good as a functional stim, actually I take that back look at the length of my post lol!

But still I'm think I g why do I wanna get more, it's really not that great but I want more lol

Mistake I made is I have hardly drank anything, I sware it cuts ur thirst to nothing.

Some minor body twinges, no real anxiety or paranoia although around 6am I felt some tremors in my body like a shaky feeling. So it's not without it's body load in my opinion

What I like is the heart doesn't seen to be working hard atall almost normal slightly elevated

Oh and my piss is bright orange

Dehydration? Or some kind of metabolite, kind of like on the steroid trenbalone it's the same colour

Anyway i don't really no how to rate this chem. It's in a league of it's own as in it not better then everything it's jus completely different.

It might be nice with a little mdai. Of ur into serenonin chems could add to the euphoria

Any way I've board u enough

Il let u know of I go but some more!

Ps it Fuking burns the nose, almost as bad as EPH ( which I hate with a passion anxiety in a bag ) in my opinion,

Peace

 

[gorestep]

Guys I'm amazed at how stimulating this is it's been 7 hours since my last dose

And I feel wired but it's like a completely different drug now. It almost feels like mild speed 7 hours later and my heart rate is up now but was during the 3fpm high

Very strange I'm convinced this metabolises into another chem with a very long come up time and a long half life my guess is amphetamine

Let me give u an example say your doing coke or meph 7 hours later after ur last dose u would want to get into bed and sleeeeep. Or Ming out to some series.

7 hours later after this I'm planning to get more 3fpm, go to my girlfriends 10 miles away buy her flowers and wait for her outside her house before she gets home. - something I would usually do

I'm not saying this after effect is pleasant but it's not horrible it would be A lot more doable maybe even enjoyable with some alcohol during this phase of the stim

 

[gorestep]

Was starting to feel scatty

Have half a g of MPA and that's actually taken the edge of my scatty brain. And made me more focused and normal

Yes MPA has taken the edge on.

3fpm in high doses is absolutely a great rec RC.

No way I'm gna tan this MPA little 20mg bumps to get me through the day

Also got diclazepam from legal high shop in town, it's all they had wanted etzis.

Bloody they have me another gram of MPA for free!!! I don't want it!!!! Haha .......but I took it can't turn down free RCs