Opioids Does it really take 2 years for the brain to recover from Opiate use?

[blaine0136]

I recently saw a Doctor who told me it can take the brain/receptors in the brain 2 years of abstinence to recover.


Anyone agree/disagree with this? its quite scary to think it takes that long

Any personal experiences?

 

[Phat5o]

in a way yes.

this is how it was for me after an 8 year oxy binge.

day 1 - 4 horrible physical mental withdrawals.. kickin really hard
day 4 - 21 or 28 cold sweats, hot flashes, feeling clammy, always sweating weather its cold or hot, majorly fatiqued and depressed with major cravings
1 - 3 months - fatique starts fading out, as well as hot flashes, you start coming back at this point still depressed but you're getting better even if its slow.
by 3 months i felt significantly better and ready to really start living again. still had cravings though
9 months to 1 year - felt better than i could ever remember, didn't even think i could get any better, at that point i was already comfortable with anything i was doing and generally feeling great all the time.

by 2 years i felt even better and than that, felt pretty disconnected from any cravings whatsoever and was very content with everything.

i have to mention that this was all done with lots of exercising to speed up the process... exercise, good eating will go a long way and cut your post acute withdrawal time down a lot

 

[David Wooderson]

^ very well put

After the three month mark I was almost all there mentally. I am now past 6 months and am as normal as I feel I'll be. I was a heavy addict for 10 years, and detoxed with a bad klonopin habit on top of opiates.

Exercising was the most important aspect of my recovery. I get high as hell when I work out now and get sore if I don't.

I remember hearing that it takes a year to two, and that might be correct for science as they have MRI's and what not but that scared me into not getting help as I wanted to die badly near the end and the thought of being sober and wrecked for two years kept me from achieving sobriety for a while.

Every week/month gets better

 

[neversickanymore]

IMO opinion the brain resets itself 90% automatically in under eight months for most and people can radically shorten this by undertaking a few things.

PAWS LINKS
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post Acute Withdrawal (PAW) Excerpted From “Staying Sober” By: Terence T. Gorski
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Exercise and Brain Neurotransmission
Neurobiology of Exercise
Aerobic Exercise
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. The Endorphin Factory
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
exercise and sleep

Chemicals and supplements to recover from opiate addiction
Diet & Neurogenesis


it is a powerful thing to keep our thoughts positive and here are some threads many of us use to help us do this.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober
Share Something Positive from Your Day vs. It's All Around You
Today I Am Thankful For... Ver. 4 Infinite Chances in an Amazing World
Daily Personal Affirmations Log Vs IM THE SHIT & NOT a piece a.. not playing me. NOPE
Managing depressive thinking

Here is the mindfulness thread.
Anhedonia MEGA Thread

 

[LilikoiMoon]

We are all going to have different opinions on this.

I believe the damage is permanent, especially to those who have been addicted for years.

Dopamine receptors are damaged during use, I truly believe this. That's why we are called "addicts for life", even if you get clean for extensive periods of time.

If you'd see the 50/60 yr old life long addicts, you'd understand what I'm talking about.

RC's and the brain...that's a whole other story.

 

[Kid Amine]

Ive heard prolonged, heavy methadone use can take 10-24 months to recover from... all other opiates, you're physically done by 2 weeks, mentally can be anywhere from 3 months to never, unfortunately.

 

[blaine0136]

We are all going to have different opinions on this.

I believe the damage is permanent, especially to those who have been addicted for years.

Dopamine receptors are damaged during use, I truly believe this. That's why we are called "addicts for life", even if you get clean for extensive periods of time.

If you'd see the 50/60 yr old life long addicts, you'd understand what I'm talking about.

RC's and the brain...that's a whole other story.

that is scary, the reason i ask is that other drugs dont work for me anymore, especially alcohol - its like drinking water, i get no buzz or anything. its like something is damaged in my brain??

 

[LilikoiMoon]

that is scary, the reason i ask is that other drugs dont work for me anymore, especially alcohol - its like drinking water, i get no buzz or anything. its like something is damaged in my brain??

Neurocognitive sequelae, sypnatic refinement w/reduction of gray matter, temporal cortex damage, % of permanent memory loss, etc.

Big words, serious shit. Other posters have pointed out time frames for brain healing. However, I still believe when you combine brain damage per drug, it's hard to say if the brain ever fully recovers.

I know over the past 20 years, my brain has changed a lot, as well as memory loss and cogn. skills.


Blaine, your situation is why I stress on damage to dopamine receptors (pleasure zone)...do you have brain damage? The only way to tell would be a CT scan to measure all areas of the brain, plus many other test, including psychological testing. So take a deep breath, I'm sure you will be fine.

 

[Phat5o]

^ very well put

After the three month mark I was almost all there mentally. I am now past 6 months and am as normal as I feel I'll be. I was a heavy addict for 10 years, and detoxed with a bad klonopin habit on top of opiates.

Exercising was the most important aspect of my recovery. I get high as hell when I work out now and get sore if I don't.

I remember hearing that it takes a year to two, and that might be correct for science as they have MRI's and what not but that scared me into not getting help as I wanted to die badly near the end and the thought of being sober and wrecked for two years kept me from achieving sobriety for a while.

Every week/month gets better

that's good to hear man. in my personal experience with this, and i did come off benzos as well, not too harsh of a withdrawal about 3 weeks before i got off the opiates. and i was on and off with benzos and their w/ds for a couple years, no heavy doses really though, just 1mg klonopin/xanax (+/- .5mg) a day for extended amounts at a time.
if you have a similar experience as me then time will start moving real fast again very soon. because you will start enjoying everything life has to offer for what it is again... and time flies by when u have fun....i flew thru month 3 - 12 and hardly even noticed until i was like WOW i really feel good like 9 months in.
good job, its good to keep these things in mind
drinking lots of water was another thing that seemed to work real well for me

 

[ramblin_rose]

I'm 2 months out from heavy opiate use and all I do is think about trying to get more. I'm quite depressed even though I started a great job last month and everything else in my life is good. I'm even considering going darknet bc my source got cut off. I'm sort of hoping that the cravings go away before I really try anything bc deep down I know I will lose a lot if I start using again. I need to exercise more. But yeah, I feel very disconnected and just crave.

 

[blaine0136]

Neurocognitive sequelae, sypnatic refinement w/reduction of gray matter, temporal cortex damage, % of permanent memory loss, etc.

Big words, serious shit. Other posters have pointed out time frames for brain healing. However, I still believe when you combine brain damage per drug, it's hard to say if the brain ever fully recovers.

I know over the past 20 years, my brain has changed a lot, as well as memory loss and cogn. skills.


Blaine, your situation is why I stress on damage to dopamine receptors (pleasure zone)...do you have brain damage? The only way to tell would be a CT scan to measure all areas of the brain, plus many other test, including psychological testing. So take a deep breath, I'm sure you will be fine.

if my pleasure zone was really damaged surely i wouldnt be able to enjoy caffeine, weed, and sex? which i do still enjoy. just strange that its alcohol and nothing else, i mean im not depressed or have anxiety, i feel pretty normal. but then again it was only 7 months of tramadol, not years and years

 

[LilikoiMoon]

if my pleasure zone was really damaged surely i wouldnt be able to enjoy caffeine, weed, and sex? which i do still enjoy. just strange that its alcohol and nothing else, i mean im not depressed or have anxiety, i feel pretty normal. but then again it was only 7 months of tramadol, not years and years

I didn't know your DOC, so yeah, that makes better sense. Tramadol is on the low scale, you'll be fine. Yes, you can still enjoy coffee , candy, sex, etc.

Tramadol, in some users, can also have mood boosting properties/anti depressant effects. Trams wire me, make me feel some happiness with energy boost, almost like adderall.

I'm talking long term, heavy use, major drugs.

Dopamine receptor damage:
Chronic heroin users are more prone to this ..that's why they "chase the dragon" because their receptors can't find pleasure/high upon use like they could their 1st time. DRD also comes into play with depression.

I read a 257 page study once about brain damage during puberty for kids who experiment with drug use. Some actually had reduced gray matter, especially when it came to alcohol use.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[Methacodone]

Honestly, not to put you on the bad side, but some symptoms of PAWS can last a life time...told by my Methadone Doctor. Who's been a Pain doctor for 10 years, and a Methadone doctor for 15+ years...He know's the game.

Opiates replace your NATURAL opiates in the brain, it can take a life time to get back to normal, not saying it'll happen to you, but it's POSSIBLE that it can happen to ANYONE.

 

[blaine0136]

Honestly, not to put you on the bad side, but some symptoms of PAWS can last a life time...told by my Methadone Doctor. Who's been a Pain doctor for 10 years, and a Methadone doctor for 15+ years...He know's the game.

Opiates replace your NATURAL opiates in the brain, it can take a life time to get back to normal, not saying it'll happen to you, but it's POSSIBLE that it can happen to ANYONE.

thanks for your input, thats scared me, to think that i took something to help with the pain i was in, could potentially ruin my beer forever. thats a horrible thought!

 

[jackie jones]

I was told three months in rehab. That is about what it took for me to start feeling better. Clean break, no methadone or bupe.

 

[Methacodone]

thanks for your input, thats scared me, to think that i took something to help with the pain i was in, could potentially ruin my beer forever. thats a horrible thought!

Well it depends...
If you were a hardcore opiate user, then it's possible.
If you were a minor opiate user, PAWS shouldn't last more than a year.
If you were a mild opiate user...PAWS shouldn't last over 6 months...

it REALLY depends on your tolerance, how much you were taking, and what you were taking.

For example, I was/am a VERY heavy opiate user.

Let me share my little story with you-

I started on Hydrocodone, when I was about 17 years old, abused Vicodin/Norco/Lortab for 2 years, doses ranging from 80-120mg/DAILY. After my tolerance was getting too high for Hydrocodone, I couldn't take them anymore because of the APAP/Tylenol that was in those pills, I know there's CWE (Cold water extraction) to take the APAP away, but I feel like I lose a lot of Hydro doing it that way, so I didn't do no CWE.

After that, I moved on to Oxycodone, because they had pure Oxycodone pills that contained no APAP, OxyContin and Roxicodone both DO NOT have any APAP in them.
I abused Oxycodone for 3 years, doses ranging from 120-200mg/DAILY.
After PILLS got TOO expensive for me, I made a HORRIBLE decision and moved on too...

Heroin. I never was an IV user, here in the west coast we get BLACK TAR H. Which is shootable, and smokeable, of course I smoked the H. Chasing the Dragon is what they call it.
I smoked Heroin for a little over a year, and this was AFTER abusing Hydrocodone and Oxycodone for over 5 years, after I hit rock bottom, stole a lot from my family, sold a lot of things that were very valueable, stuff like that...Withdrawal hit me like a brick to the face.

I was literally crawling on my knees, puking, in HORRIFIC pain, RLS (restless leg syndrome), dehydration (That almost killed me), pretty much the whole 9 yards of a hardcore opiate W/d...
I was rushed to the hospital by my parents, because I was getting SO dehydrated, puking every 5 minutes, I couldn't even keep water down, the ER took me in less then 30 minutes because I was near the level of dehydration that I was literally turning blueish/purple color, that's how my skin color was becoming. We didn't lie to the nurses or Doctors why I was here at the ER. Since it was my 1st time there, they said they are able to help just this ONE time for dope sickness..they immediately put me on IV, to get some water in my system to take the horrible dehydration away. 30 minutes later, the doctor came in, saw me sick like a dog, and gave me IV of Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine...I can finally relax a little and talk to the doctors and my parents..
The doctor said there's only 2 ways to save your son (talking to my parents), #1 Rehab..which wasn't a choice for us because we couldn't afford $20k/month. #2 MMT (Methadone Maintnance Therapy)...that was my only choice...

3 years later, here I am on Methadone, still. 80mg is my dose.

So I have a tolerance to opiates of nearly 10 years...that's a heavy user.

 

[blaine0136]

Well it depends...
If you were a hardcore opiate user, then it's possible.
If you were a minor opiate user, PAWS shouldn't last more than a year.
If you were a mild opiate user...PAWS shouldn't last over 6 months...

it REALLY depends on your tolerance, how much you were taking, and what you were taking.

For example, I was/am a VERY heavy opiate user.

Let me share my little story with you-

I started on Hydrocodone, when I was about 17 years old, abused Vicodin/Norco/Lortab for 2 years, doses ranging from 80-120mg/DAILY. After my tolerance was getting too high for Hydrocodone, I couldn't take them anymore because of the APAP/Tylenol that was in those pills, I know there's CWE (Cold water extraction) to take the APAP away, but I feel like I lose a lot of Hydro doing it that way, so I didn't do no CWE.

After that, I moved on to Oxycodone, because they had pure Oxycodone pills that contained no APAP, OxyContin and Roxicodone both DO NOT have any APAP in them.
I abused Oxycodone for 3 years, doses ranging from 120-200mg/DAILY.
After PILLS got TOO expensive for me, I made a HORRIBLE decision and moved on too...

Heroin. I never was an IV user, here in the west coast we get BLACK TAR H. Which is shootable, and smokeable, of course I smoked the H. Chasing the Dragon is what they call it.
I smoked Heroin for a little over a year, and this was AFTER abusing Hydrocodone and Oxycodone for over 5 years, after I hit rock bottom, stole a lot from my family, sold a lot of things that were very valueable, stuff like that...Withdrawal hit me like a brick to the face.

I was literally crawling on my knees, puking, in HORRIFIC pain, RLS (restless leg syndrome), dehydration (That almost killed me), pretty much the whole 9 yards of a hardcore opiate W/d...
I was rushed to the hospital by my parents, because I was getting SO dehydrated, puking every 5 minutes, I couldn't even keep water down, the ER took me in less then 30 minutes because I was near the level of dehydration that I was literally turning blueish/purple color, that's how my skin color was becoming. We didn't lie to the nurses or Doctors why I was here at the ER. Since it was my 1st time there, they said they are able to help just this ONE time for dope sickness..they immediately put me on IV, to get some water in my system to take the horrible dehydration away. 30 minutes later, the doctor came in, saw me sick like a dog, and gave me IV of Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine...I can finally relax a little and talk to the doctors and my parents..
The doctor said there's only 2 ways to save your son (talking to my parents), #1 Rehab..which wasn't a choice for us because we couldn't afford $20k/month. #2 MMT (Methadone Maintnance Therapy)...that was my only choice...

3 years later, here I am on Methadone, still. 80mg is my dose.

So I have a tolerance to opiates of nearly 10 years...that's a heavy user.

wow, must of been sheer hell! i hope you're in a somewhat better place than 3 years ago, now i understand what a heavy user is.

in regards to my usage - i took tramadol for 7 months roughly, ONCE a day, in the evenings after a long working shift. i havent taken any in around 13 months, so its been more than a year of abstinence. i guess i was a moderate user?

 

[Methacodone]

Tramadol is a very weak opiate, but can still have BAD W/D's because it's an opiate + SSRI.

But you've been 13 months clean, big props!!

It shouldn't take that much longer for you to feel 100% normal again...I would call a tramadol user a mild opiate user, because it's literally the weakest opiate on the market.

I think the SSRI part of W/D with Tramadol is harder than the opiate W/D it gives itself, but combining them, what Tramadol exactly does, is what makes it very uncomfortable.
7 months isn't a long time either..

I honestly would say, you should consider yourself lucky AND smart enough not to have gone any further into addiction...MAD PROPS to you.