Opioids What about this narloxone/bupe/opiate plan?

[Mauricio]

Ok...so I've been on suboxone for a bit now and it has greatly improved my life.

Now, I do not want to use non stop again but can't grasp living in a world where I can't take opiate vacations anymore. But every time I want to I can't bring myself to wait until I get feeling crappy from lack of subs, and I begin using a tad too early, there's too much blocking, I end up overcompensating and never getting any euphoria...it's a total mess. Only good opiate experiences I have had in recent years is when I first let myself take NOTHING until I'm feeling crappy from lack of subs in my system.

Now here is my idea...I want to know if this would work. While on subs I inject myself with a good sized narloxene dose...which from what I've read should put me into withdrawal (some people can't use suboxone for this very reason, with the 2mg of narloxene in them and all). Now once I've done that shouldn't I then be able to use an euphoric opiate (most likely heroin or china white, maybe opana, or oxys) and get that sweet sense of relief from using opiates when sick?

Is this idea genius or unworkable? Some kinks to work out?

Thanks for your input guys.

 

[adder]

This won't work. First of all, buprenorphine has a higher affinity towards MOP receptors than naloxone and it has a long half-life while naloxone is very short-lived, so it's impossible to force buprenorphine out with a single low dose of naloxone when you take doses typically used for maintenance. People going into precipitated withdrawal experience this due to buprenorphine forcing some remaining full agonist molecules out of receptors, the presence of naloxone in Suboxone is a secondary factor here and in this case it doesn't really matter at all, buprenorphine alone as in Subutex will cause precipitated withdrawal if it's taken too early. Potentially, there are some side effects of Suboxone caused by naloxone but they must be unrelated to its action at MOP receptors because when you take Suboxone long-term, naloxone effects at MOP receptors is almost non-existent given both its affinity and half-life vs. buprenorphine.

I guess what you need to understand before starting buprenorphine maintenance is your real situation and why you found yourself in it. I've been on Suboxone for 2.5 years now and it was the best choice I had when I couldn't cope with persisting withdrawal after I'd quit methadone. I didn't plan this, I felt mentally ready to get off opioids for good when I decided to taper off methadone. So at the very beginning I was even pleased that buprenorphine provided some mild opioid effect for me after the methadone nightmare. At times I did feel cravings and I took codeine on a few occasions with different results when I ran out of Suboxone early, but overall the blocking effect is often present even when the positive effect is already gone. I mean that it's basically impossible to live a normal life switching between full agonists and buprenorphine.

 

[Mauricio]

This won't work. First of all, buprenorphine has a higher affinity towards MOP receptors than naloxone and it has a long half-life while naloxone is very short-lived, so it's impossible to force buprenorphine out with a single low dose of naloxone when you take doses typically used for maintenance. People going into precipitated withdrawal experience this due to buprenorphine forcing some remaining full agonist molecules out of receptors, the presence of naloxone in Suboxone is a secondary factor here and in this case it doesn't really matter at all, buprenorphine alone as in Subutex will cause precipitated withdrawal if it's taken too early. Potentially, there are some side effects of Suboxone caused by naloxone but they must be unrelated to its action at MOP receptors because when you take Suboxone long-term, naloxone effects at MOP receptors is almost non-existent given both its affinity and half-life vs. buprenorphine.

I guess what you need to understand before starting buprenorphine maintenance is your real situation and why you found yourself in it. I've been on Suboxone for 2.5 years now and it was the best choice I had when I couldn't cope with persisting withdrawal after I'd quit methadone. I didn't plan this, I felt mentally ready to get off opioids for good when I decided to taper off methadone. So at the very beginning I was even pleased that buprenorphine provided some mild opioid effect for me after the methadone nightmare. At times I did feel cravings and I took codeine on a few occasions with different results when I ran out of Suboxone early, but overall the blocking effect is often present even when the positive effect is already gone. I mean that it's basically impossible to live a normal life switching between full agonists and buprenorphine.

Thanks for your take on it. What if it was a large dose of naloxone I took to get the bupe out?

 

[siq]

No man it won't work and its a terrible idea, plus too much of a hassle that u dont need.., Its much more simple..

I've been on subs the last few years and I like to go on a heroin vacation every now and then as well. First off, If you're not going to slam heroin then don't even do it. Its the only thing thats worthy enough to break through a low dose of bupe. As long as you're at 2-4mg then you only have to wait about 12hrs (24 hrs for full effect). Its pretty simple deal man, just dont use any longer than 1-3 days and u can hop right back on your sub dose with no problem. Try to keep it to 2 days and youll be okay.

 

[Mauricio]

No man it won't work and its a terrible idea, plus too much of a hassle that u dont need.., Its much more simple..

I've been on subs the last few years and I like to go on a heroin vacation every now and then as well. First off, If you're not going to slam heroin then don't even do it. Its the only thing thats worthy enough to break through a low dose of bupe. As long as you're at 2-4mg then you only have to wait about 12hrs (24 hrs for full effect). Its pretty simple deal man, just dont use any longer than 1-3 days and u can hop right back on your sub dose with no problem. Try to keep it to 2 days and youll be okay.

Thanks, I'm at 4mg a day right now and need to go 48 hours with nothing to get it, maybe if I lower to 2mg the wait will be easier.

I probably shouldn't do anything...

 

[siq]

Thanks, I'm at 4mg a day right now and need to go 48 hours with nothing to get it, maybe if I lower to 2mg the wait will be easier.

I probably shouldn't do anything...

why do u need to go 48hrs? youll get full effect at 24...

 

[Mauricio]

I do not get full effects at 24 hours. Believe me I have tried.

 

[siq]

I do not get full effects at 24 hours. Believe me I have tried.

at 4mg a day?? You dont get full effect, thats strange.

 

[siq]

I do not get full effects at 24 hours. Believe me I have tried.

Our metabolisms must me totally different or something. I've never heard of anyone on 4mg or under getting blocked after 24... The only time I've ever been blocked at 24 was when I took like 16mgs which was a fuckin ton.

Are you active? Or do u just do nothing all day?

 

[Xn1919]

I doubt this will work. and I doubt u are going to be able to hit a vain or anything when the WD's happens. I banged too early and I dropped to my knees and couldn't move for 10 mins...

 

[crzydiamond]

A large dose of naloxone, or ANY dose of naloxone cannot force bupe off of opiate receptors. The binding affinity of bupe is much higher than naloxone. The only thing with a higher binding affinity are the fentanyl family and I don't recommend going there.

Basically, just wait it out. Taper down your bupe dose if you can and if you plan on indulging often. (Though if you indulge that often sub maintanence may not be a good idea as the jumping back n forth makes the bupe less effective for many people)