Bluelighters what are your religious beliefs (or disbeliefs)

[ThePharmacist4925]

Idk, raised Christian, was a youth leader, went on mission trips and basically did everything you should do, but where was that getting me. Nowhere. So I said fuck it and slowly let my faith drain away, and low and behold things got better for awhile. But any way you look at the church frowned upon self-medication. Also it's fair to say that when you present with mental health issues the church recommends leaning on god for help, honestly that fuckin guy never helped my ass out when I was depressed and lonely as a kid and still doesn't help to this day, go figure right, so when the church people get all uppity when it comes to saying prayers I politely decline to waste any more of my time focused on low efficiency methods of seeking out a cure-ish type things, I do tend to think that religion can be very good for some people, I'm just not one of them, and it's not my business to inject into someones peaceful belief in god, if it's peaceful that is, if someone claims violence in the name of religion, they should be hit with lead pipe, maybe that'd knock some sense into them, probably not, but it could very well kill them, while less pretty than knocking sense into them, probably more effective if I do say so myself. The only things that really irk me about standard religious practices are the tendencies to deny science for the sake of believing what's writing in scriptures. But look, it works for some people and doesn't work for others, my father needs it or he'd lose his fuckin mind, my brother will probably be burdened by it, thus its value lost, my sister doesn't really give a shit either way but thinks church is a nice place to go do volunteer work, my mother buys into it way too much to the point that it diminishes her ability to think for herself, so everyone has a different relationship with it and if we are being honest everyone who buys into it is garnering some benefit and taking some losses. Idk there's a lot of good coming out of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, (obviously I am not talking about extremists, or if it wasn't obvious then pick up your head off the ground and put it back on your shoulders) and there's also plenty of shit to go around, no doubt. While this may not be entirely fair, extremist groups can suck a big one and stop killing in the name of a god that probably doesn't love them after all that shitty extremist stuff they did. Hypothetically God can be a fun concept, until you think about the fact that god is dick for leaving earth with all these nasty problems. Wouldn't it be nicer if an Omnipotent God just significantly improved the world, probably but remember if there is a god, he's an asshole, look at all the suffering, poverty, and inequality in the world. But wait wasn't it humanities job, entrusted by god, to take care of the earth and other people, well that plan quit working before the damn Romans, so it's probably wise to assume that if there is a god, he abandoned us or is gleefully watching as we march hand in hand towards extinction. Point being why would I want to believe in a god if he's probably just an asshole, helps my sanity to believe this is just dumb luck, the other options are more disturbing

 

[murphythecat]

I think that religion are created by men living in our society.
I also think society and individuals are to blame, not only religions.

I'm not blaming religion for life's problems, I never said that. I said it is a detriment to society, I didn't say, "without religion we would have a utopian society." Or are you saying I can't blame religion for anything becuase it doesn't effect whether people are good or bad? Religion does effect the way people think and act, and while it may not change the nature of a person it does advise their actions. Yes, I can say religious systems are to blame for some of the worlds suffering.

 

[AKA Randy Travis]

I was raised catholic, but at age 18, I kinda drifted away from the catholic Church. I see organized religion as a way to manipulate people. I believe that there is a higher power, but there is no possible way for anybody to know the absolute truth of how, or why we exist. I am a firm believer in science, but that does not mean that I don't believe in the possibility of a higher power. There is just no way to be certain, and I find this very intriguing. I also am a vety strong advocate for tolerance of everyone's beliefs, even if they differ from our own. The likelihood of their beliefs being correct, is just the same as any others. Believe what you choose. It is your right!

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I concede that I was too general in saying religion is the problem. I was specifically talking about Christianity and Islam, they seemed to have caused the most trouble. I think you are right, not all religions are harmful but I still believe they are wrong and unnecessary. That being said I would like to repeat that I would never want to ban religion and as long as someone's beliefs aren't negatively impacting themselves or those around them I have no problem with them.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Before I was an atheist I held the belief that if there was an all loving God there is no possible way he would send people to hell for things like homosexuality. The only punishment an all loving god should deal out is to those who knowingly do wrong and don't seek to redeem themselves. I'm not talking about some divine sense of atonement but an actually worldly redemption of helping the people they have hurt. I don't hold that belief anymore but that seems like the only sensible way an all loving God could give punishment.

 

[AKA Randy Travis]

I concede that I was too general in saying religion is the problem. I was specifically talking about Christianity and Islam, they seemed to have caused the most trouble. I think you are right, not all religions are harmful but I still believe they are wrong and unnecessary. That being said I would like to repeat that I would never want to ban religion and as long as someone's beliefs aren't negatively impacting themselves or those around them I have no problem with them.

Great post man. I agree with you completely. In the times of the renaissance, the church would actually sell tickets for a free sin, like a get out of jail free card (can't remember the exact name lol). With these tickets you were allowed to commit the most heinous acts, and supposedly be forgiven by God. Just terrible. I was very impressed by your reply. You seem like an incredibly intelligent individual.

 

[AKA Randy Travis]

I wouldn't consider myself an atheist though. I believe the universe is so large, that literally anything could be possible.

 

[treezy z]

To the non-believers here, God speaks to me from the clouds. On Judgment Day you will be on your hands and knees begging for forgiveness. I encourage you to bow down to God before it's to late. Armageddon draws near and it shall consume us all.

 

[swilow]

To the non-believers here, God speaks to me from the clouds. On Judgment Day you will be on your hands and knees begging for forgiveness. I encourage you to bow down to God before it's to late. Armageddon draws near and it shall consume us all.

Christians have been saying that for literally 2000 years and they have never been right yet. I see no reason for this to change anytime soon.

I would willingly bow to down to god. If Christians are correct, god is forgiving of doubters; Jesus, who is God himself, at one point thinks that God has forsaken him. He questions the existence of himself. That's crazy. I have way less evidence for gods existence and yet I am condemned for my own doubts. If God himself had doubts about his Godliness, I am certain he will forgive my own.

 

[Jabberwocky]

God when taught by fallible humans has often become a form of control. I don't care what religion. Before religion there was God and I have a hard time conceiving in a God that would brand itself. Nothing wrong with a religious path (agnostic is a religion too), it helps even in a way, but only to a point. There are moments in all our lives where our consciousness is expanded and we perceive things beyond what we did. I suggest to leave your preconceptions behind. Your religion will redefine itself. You'll add details or remove them, but what remains was changed perception. Trying to define, characterize, interpret and manipulate based on old perception when you are gifted with a new one seems arrogant towards that gift.

 

[swilow]

^In what sense is agnosticism a religion?

 

[ForEverAfter]

In the same sense that abstinence is a sexual orientation. (I'm pretty sure that was his/her point.)

 

[Ninae]

Christians have been saying that for literally 2000 years and they have never been right yet. I see no reason for this to change anytime soon.

I would willingly bow to down to god. If Christians are correct, god is forgiving of doubters; Jesus, who is God himself, at one point thinks that God has forsaken him. He questions the existence of himself. That's crazy. I have way less evidence for gods existence and yet I am condemned for my own doubts. If God himself had doubts about his Godliness, I am certain he will forgive my own.

I think you're taking this a bit too seriously. Or, in reality, I think it's more like being trapped in a holographic computer game, having forgotten you're trapped, and the closest thing to God you have is your own higher self, or the part of you that is one with God and makes up 2/3 of your consciousness.

So for the most part you're fine and aware what is going on, you've just chosen to have a part of your consciousness limited for some time - for the experience and what you can learn from it. When it's over you will be fine and forgive yourself as you will know you have been severly compromised. Forgiving yourself can be the hardest thing. God's forgiveness is automatic, but this is your project that he doesn't really involve himself much in, and you have the freedom to lead pretty much how you like. But some can be very hard on themselves and seek to punish themselves in different ways, and you have the freedom to do that too.

While God, and the spark of God within yourself, is on the outside of all this. It can just be hard to get in touch with when you're so pulled into the lower levels. But the "god" you think of as being responsible for what goes on in your life is no other than your own higher self/greater soul, who's running the show (i.e. You). It's hard on you, as it sees your experience as temporary only, and you're one of the main ways for it to learn and evolve (easy for it to say when it's safe on the higher planes). But when you leave the body and re-unite with your greater self you will have a different perspective and think of your most challenging times as the most valuable (if you just wanted to be in heaven, in ideal conditions, you wouldn't leave to begin with).

 

[swilow]

^What makes you think I'm taking it too seriously? None of your post has any bearing on your first sentence.

In the same sense that abstinence is a sexual orientation. (I'm pretty sure that was his/her point.)

I'm not sure that really works as an analogy. Agnosticism has none of the qualities of a religion, it has no belief system nor higher power nor a conception of god. Plus we choose our religion by-and-large; sexual orientation is inherent.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Re: agnosticism...
It isn't a religion.
It is a religious orientation... In the same way that abstinence - from a certain perspective - is a sexual orientation.

To be so overtly anti-political that you identify specifically as someone that is disinterested in politics is like abstinence and agnosticism in a way.

I'm not saying they're the same thing.

we choose our religion by-and-large; sexual orientation is inherent.

Not convinced of that.
How do you know you choose anything?
Free will is as crazy a concept as those found in mainstream religions, IMO.

 

[swilow]

Re: agnosticism...
It isn't a religion.
It is a religious orientation... In the same way that abstinence - from a certain perspective - is a sexual orientation.

To be so overtly anti-political that you identify specifically as someone that is disinterested in politics is like abstinence and agnosticism in a way.

I'm not saying they're the same thing.

No, you're not saying that, but Levelsbeyond did which was what I was questioning:

(agnostic is a religion too)

Define the word "religion" and agnosticism doesn't seem like one to me. It is perhaps a spiritual perspective, but spirituality and religion are different (not that you are saying that, I'm just pointing this out...)

I'm not sure that we are talking about 'overt' agnosticism. Are you conflating the term agnostic with atheist?

Not convinced of that.
How do you know you choose anything?
Free will is as crazy a concept as those found in mainstream religions, IMO.

I too question free-will. Perhaps the difference between sexual orientation and religious belief is that the former gives the illusion of compulsion, the latter the illusion of choice. They are still qualitative differences though.

 

[swilow]

I've added a poll to this thread. I'm sure its been done before but why not do it again?

If you can think of any other poll choices, please respond to my post or PM me and I'll add it in.

I voted "other". I suspect that may get a few votes from the fence-sitters....

 

[Xorkoth]

I thought I had just never noticed there was a poll, and then I voted and saw there was only 1 other vote, and I wondered why that was. Good to know I'm not that unobservant.

I also voted Other.

 

[ForEverAfter]

No, you're not saying that, but Levelsbeyond did

If you read between the lines, you can ascertain what he/she meant (even though the wording was incorrect). I've been trying to do this more and more - to meet people in the middle - since members are often drunk/high and, sometimes, are not communicating in their first language. Although the statement "agnostic(ism) is a religion" is incorrect, it is true that you can't help but have a religious orientation. Although, the same can be said for anything I suppose... But, with religion, there doesn't appear to be much neutrality. People are either very much one thing or another. You either believe, disbelieve or you aren't sure. I'm yet to encounter anyone who hasn't considered their orientation (when it comes to religion). With politics, some people just don't care. They aren't undecided. They don't sway in either direction. They're just disinterested... Whereas religion is a bit different. It seems a little weird (to me) to identify as atheistic; to adhere to a label indicating the utter lack of belief in something... There are religious, even fundamental, aspects of atheism. People like Christopher Hutchens, for example, spend a strange amount of time preaching about something they should - by all accounts - be relatively disinterested in... I don't believe in Santa Clause and I don't think it's a positive thing for children to believe in, but I don't spend a lot of time discussing it... Everyone is agnostic, IMO, except those who have had direct contact with God. People who adhere to certain religions still have their doubts. Faith is required for those taking somebody else's (prophets / holy texts) word for it. And faith is not constant and unfaltering. So Christians, for example, are really agnostics with varying degrees of inclination towards theism. Even the prophets - even Jesus, according to the NT - had his moments of doubt (read: agnostic inclinations)...

I drove 2000 km [1250 miles] yesterday, so forgive me if I'm rambling a bit.

I can't bring myself to vote because I'm a bit agnostic, a bit Christian, a bit Buddhist... but mostly other.
Congrats on your moderatorship, btw, dude. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving Bluelighter.
(Edit: there should probably be options for agnosticism and atheism on the poll... or, are they "other"?)

 

[swilow]

^Well, I wasn't being obtuse, I didn't feel like agnosticism was a religious belief. To me, its almost non-religious belief. There's very few agnostic demoninations. But perhaps its part of a spectrum of religious belief....Militant atheism is unpleasant to me. I find Christopher Hitchens to be a good speaker but the vehemence of his opposition was somewhat Freudian.

Cheers for the congrats and I've added atheism/agnosticism as a single option and urge people to clarify...

edit: also, I've modified the question so that 100% certainty is not required.