Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

[murphythecat]

No offense, but the way you boast of destroying your ego sounds ironically egoic. We are one; but you and I are not the same. You are you, and I am me. We can only do our best to minimize egoic tendencies of self centered thinking and selfishness, but we are never without our ego. Enlightenment isn't about destroying the ego, its about avoiding our tendency to attach all of our identity to our conscious thoughts. Our ego is the facade of our personality. Its an inherent part of our consciousness. I am unsure how a person would function without some sense of individuality.

the ego is a illusion. we have no core, the self is simply a idea, a mental formation, a thought. but when you tune into right now, whats left? the knower. but the knower, if you dissect it, isnt something we own either. yet we try to own that body, those thoughts and support the sense of self and satisfy what the me wants. as soon a desire is fulfilled, theres another one following. its a never ending chase to please something that isnt real.
enlightenment is end of all stress and suffering, liberation, freedom, end of all delusions. dukkha is our steady companion and is our greatest teacher.

 

[Erikmen]

True, it makes sense.

 

[ForEverAfter]

the ego is a illusion. we have no core, the self is simply a idea, a mental formation, a thought. but when you tune into right now, whats left? the knower. but the knower, if you dissect it, isnt something we own either. yet we try to own that body, those thoughts and support the sense of self and satisfy what the me wants. as soon a desire is fulfilled, theres another one following. its a never ending chase to please something that isnt real.
enlightenment is end of all stress and suffering, liberation, freedom, end of all delusions. dukkha is our steady companion and is our greatest teacher.

The ego may be illusory, but that doesn't prevent it from being functional.
Ego is not a dirty word. It, like everything, is a necessary part of the giant machine / giant illusion.
Without ego, the human race never would have developed to a point where enlightenment (as you describe it) became logistically possible.
Furthermore, monks live in buildings and wear robes. This (fashion / architecture) is all a result of people with egos, that you seem to take for granted... ? When you become a monk, why not go further than the standard monk lifestyle and go without clothes / shelter / etc?
The self isn't just an idea, it's a huge part of our biological functionality.

The entire universe might be illusory, but we can't do without the entire universe.

 

[socko]

Lots of people feels the same about some countries in Europe like in France or Scandinavia and their shower routines.
Although I don't believe it, in some countries, perfume is a must.
.....

It's true. Many people here have medival bathing habits. I did too when I was living in a cabin off the grid because it was too cold not to. Taking a bath in a stream with ice and snow floating around in it HURTS. And it's too much trouble to heat bath water everyday. And it washes away oils your skin needs to stay warm.

 

[Abject]

Spices make you smell much more than meat (and other foods)
Some fish are particularly stinky but if u eat durian you'll reek, so I don't see what the hell smell has to do with it.
Whether you're talking sweat, farts/shit, or breath, all three are gonna smell bad no matter what you eat.

I'd say vegans and vegetarians are more likely to have tooth decay due to sugar intake than those on balanced diets.

 

[murphythecat]

The ego may be illusory, but that doesn't prevent it from being functional.
Ego is not a dirty word. It, like everything, is a necessary part of the giant machine / giant illusion.
Without ego, the human race never would have developed to a point where enlightenment (as you describe it) became logistically possible.
Furthermore, monks live in buildings and wear robes. This (fashion / architecture) is all a result of people with egos, that you seem to take for granted... ? When you become a monk, why not go further than the standard monk lifestyle and go without clothes / shelter / etc?
The self isn't just an idea, it's a huge part of our biological functionality.

The entire universe might be illusory, but we can't do without the entire universe.

the ego is much more then just functional, it dictates every moment of our life, every choice we make is based upon what the self craves and wants. then, feeding the ego creates attachment. the more we satisfy a need we believe we need, the more we crave. the more we crave, the more we suffer. because we creates more and more dependency upon conditioned phenomena to find happiness. we becomes less and less free and more and more attached and dependant upon this body and the sense contact to gain satisfaction. its a never ending circle as this body will die. we base our happiness upon something that will end. then there the present moment and how to attain and tune to it. this present moment can only be experience when we shrink that ego, when we stop that thinking, comparing, creating.

the ego, the sense of self, the me is not real and is one of the main cause of everything we do: we try to satisfy something that isnt even real: it brings a lot of stress. how can there be a problem if theres no me, no I, no sense of self?

the ego is a mental formation, there's no reality to the self we think we own. if you peel your self and must look for a self, you wont find any. even the knower is something that always change. thoughts just comes up, feeling just comes up. thoughts are just thoughts, feelings are just feelings, consciousness comes and goes: we dont own anything. however, theres some things in life that will undoubtedly brings suffering, guilt, stress if we think and do those things and we must know how to stop to crave what creates negative feeling/thoughts/actions.

 

[turkalurk]

the ego is a illusion. we have no core, the self is simply a idea, a mental formation, a thought. but when you tune into right now, whats left? the knower. but the knower, if you dissect it, isnt something we own either. yet we try to own that body, those thoughts and support the sense of self and satisfy what the me wants. as soon a desire is fulfilled, theres another one following. its a never ending chase to please something that isnt real.
enlightenment is end of all stress and suffering, liberation, freedom, end of all delusions. dukkha is our steady companion and is our greatest teacher.

what makes something real?

 

[turkalurk]

Meat does lower your vibrational energy and holds you back to some degree if you're spiritually ambitious. I know most will argue this but I don't care. I think it's true.

Ahh, so its not a moral high horse, it about attaining a "higher" vibrational energy. So, its about being spiritually ambitious?

I kid, i kid, just bustin your balls/ovaries.

 

[turkalurk]

the ego is much more then just functional, it dictates every moment of our life, every choice we make is based upon what the self craves and wants. then, feeding the ego creates attachment. the more we satisfy a need we believe we need, the more we crave. the more we crave, the more we suffer. because we creates more and more dependency upon conditioned phenomena to find happiness. we becomes less and less free and more and more attached and dependant upon this body and the sense contact to gain satisfaction. its a never ending circle as this body will die. we base our happiness upon something that will end. then there the present moment and how to attain and tune to it. this present moment can only be experience when we shrink that ego, when we stop that thinking, comparing, creating.

the ego, the sense of self, the me is not real and is one of the main cause of everything we do: we try to satisfy something that isnt even real: it brings a lot of stress. how can there be a problem if theres no me, no I, no sense of self?

the ego is a mental formation, there's no reality to the self we think we own. if you peel your self and must look for a self, you wont find any. even the knower is something that always change. thoughts just comes up, feeling just comes up. thoughts are just thoughts, feelings are just feelings, consciousness comes and goes: we dont own anything. however, theres some things in life that will undoubtedly brings suffering, guilt, stress if we think and do those things and we must know how to stop to crave what creates negative feeling/thoughts/actions.

weren't you just saying ego was not real? IMO, my body is the one thing that I know belongs to me. It also belongs to humanity, to the mammal family, and it belongs to all sorts of micro-organisms that have made it their home. My body is one of the most influential components of my personality, but it belongs to the world, the world doesn't belong to me. My personality interdepends on my interaction with my external environment. I am nothing without the world, but the world will still be the world whether I exist or not. I am not equal to the world, thats why I revere its magnificance the way I do. There is so many higher powers than my own measily conscious efforts. That's why I don't subscribe to Ego worship. I only accept it as part of the human condition, and give a sincere effort to avoid it by seeking impartiality and objectivity to the genuine limits of my human mind while trying my best not to underestimate these limitations.

The word "I" when I use it to refer to me, certainly represents a particular frame of reference that is attached to my body. Congruent components may interact in a similar system that creates the features of myself that I most identify with, but it seems rather obvious that the personality type that emerges as similar variations within a group(the group "I") supercedes the "I" that refers to this particular experience occuring within this particular nervous system.

 

[GodandLove]

God&Love, (Re: what is quoted above)

Nobody lives their life with no sense of right and wrong,

I do.

God&Love, (Re: what is quoted above)
Everybody has a moral compass.

I make an effort not to have one.

That sounds amazing, but - really - it's bullshit.
There are things that are off limits for you.
You are just as human as the rest of us.

No, it's not bullshit. It's truth. Believe it or not though, on the subatomic level, you and I share the same consistency as bullshit. So in a semantic way, you're partially right.

But no, Nothing is off limits for me. I may possess a human body, but that doesn't mean I'm like the rest of you. For all you know I'm a Daemon body snatcher.

God&Love, (Re: what is quoted above)

I'd wager that you'd have moral issues with stealing from the poor or taking advantage of vulnerable people.
If not, then you're not a very good person IMO.

Yes, as much as it saddens me to admit, I would indeed have "moral" issues with someone stealing from the poor. But just because I as an individual have moral issues with something doesn't give me the right to project my moral issues onto others and oppose their free will. My moral perceptions ARE NOT MANDATORY UNIVERSAL LAW, they are independent variables. I have a much bigger moral issue with someone opposing another's free will than I do with someone stealing from the poor. That's just me though. Morals are not constants, they are temporary restraints.

God&Love, (Re: what is quoted above)

Morality is an "illusion" as much as everything is illusory... But we need to maintain the illusion, all of us.
We can recognize that everything is meaningless, in other words, but can't live that way.

Why would we need to maintain one specific illusion? This is infinity, we have an entire buffet of illusions to choose from. Why stick with one for the rest of eternity? I mean, what an absolute waste of infinity.

God&Love, (Re: what is quoted above)

Your sarcastic post about willow eating meat indicates, to me, that you're not particularly enlightened.

My post to willow was not sarcastic. It was genuine and sincere.

 

[One Thousand Words]

It tends to give rotten breath and more body odour. But just think of all the rotting meat and fish inside the body. Rotten vegetables still don't smell anything that bad.

I doof with a majority vego crowd and I can assure you those hippies smell like shit. It might be their mistaken belief that showering is unnatural, but there is no disguising their ranchard stench.

Crystals are no substitute for deodorant, no matter how they vibrate

 

[swilow]

how did I over-react? Are you now over-reacting to my over_reaction?

No.

 

[turkalurk]

No.

exactly.

 

[What 23]

I doof with a majority vego crowd and I can assure you those hippies smell like shit. It might be their mistaken belief that showering is unnatural, but there is no disguising their ranchard stench.

Crystals are no substitute for deodorant, no matter how they vibrate

I notice since eating meat that my breath is worse, no matter what I do. When I ate just about pure hemp seeds I didn't have the breath odor. But it is bad. I wonder if it is protein content.

One of the reasons I switched diets, to be a vegetarian when I was, was that a girl visited me who was vegetarian, didn't shower for like three or four days, and didn't wreak to high heavens. I thought there was something to it. Not sure. Maybe it was her physiology (and she is native American... Whites and Blacks have worse B.O. naturally generally than Asians...).

I can attest rotting vegetables can smell pretty horrible. Especially beans, from what I may have experienced.

Deodorant isn't needed. I just wash with baking soda, and don't need to shower for at least two days. I've gone four and I don't stink nearly as bad as I did when I used soap and tried to go a day or so.

Oh... Ha- Baking soda are crystals :D. I get no complaints.

 

[swilow]

^On your pure hemp seed diet, did you feel well? Energetic? Dull? It seems to be somewhat risky IM(limited)O, but I am for some reason intrigued by extreme singularity of action.

exactly.

Spot on.

 

[Erikmen]

It's true. Many people here have medival bathing habits. I did too when I was living in a cabin off the grid because it was too cold not to. Taking a bath in a stream with ice and snow floating around in it HURTS. And it's too much trouble to heat bath water everyday. And it washes away oils your skin needs to stay warm.

Not really like that at all. You have a great heating system just like any state in US. Make your own excuses. I had always taken a shower as I enjoy it.
Beside, Europe is not as cold as it gets in States and Canada. North America is way more freezing than Europe, unless you are in northern Europe. Northern than Stockholm or Oslo, way north.
Or up in the Alps. Nevertheless, not that cold. It rains much more than snow, when it snows it's too humid and hardly constantly lower than 32F or 0 c.

About the icy lake, it's not a shower, I have done it. It's something you have to learn how to do and once you do it can be quite refreshing.
Normally you jump after a hot Sauna. It's an excellent rush and indeed good for the skin, but it's not a shower.
You need to do it right, don't let you head get wet.
A lot of experienced old folks can teach you how so that you don't feel it burning.

 

[murphythecat]

what makes something real?

we would have to agree on the definition of real. material are all impermanent. they have a reality. the material reality is real in that sense.
the idea of a self, a entity, is not real though.
there is suffering but no sufferer. there is the deed but no doer, there is the path but nobody to enter it. ect.

corelesness (non-self) is one of the three characteristic of existence: impermanence, stress/suffering/insatisfaction, corelesness.

weren't you just saying ego was not real? IMO, my body is the one thing that I know belongs to me. It also belongs to humanity, to the mammal family, and it belongs to all sorts of micro-organisms that have made it their home. My body is one of the most influential components of my personality, but it belongs to the world, the world doesn't belong to me. My personality interdepends on my interaction with my external environment. I am nothing without the world, but the world will still be the world whether I exist or not. I am not equal to the world, thats why I revere its magnificance the way I do. There is so many higher powers than my own measily conscious efforts. That's why I don't subscribe to Ego worship. I only accept it as part of the human condition, and give a sincere effort to avoid it by seeking impartiality and objectivity to the genuine limits of my human mind while trying my best not to underestimate these limitations.

The word "I" when I use it to refer to me, certainly represents a particular frame of reference that is attached to my body. Congruent components may interact in a similar system that creates the features of myself that I most identify with, but it seems rather obvious that the personality type that emerges as similar variations within a group(the group "I") supercedes the "I" that refers to this particular experience occuring within this particular nervous system.

definitely, the idea of a self must take a back seat. there is much more important thing in life then me. to experience reality and the moment present, we must give up a lot of ego/thoughts.

about the body belonging to you. your heart is you, your bladder, your lungs, your nose. all you? so you have many self. or yourself is a conglomorate of many things that you put together and call, me! the me is a mental fomation.

 

[What 23]

I felt good. Not dull at all. It wasn't the healthiest diet, and I got down to <120 lbs. I would try to supplement things (vitamin c, calcium) but often it was the singular source of food.

My body was definitely taxed and stressed, for as long as I did it (2-3 years). But the fats in it provide good energy. Smoking weed became more euphoric, or seemed to, as if having the plant in my body, having this uniform diet more or less was good. Any time I added other food and smoked it was as if my energy was compromised.

I don't know. I do think hemp seeds are a wonderful food. If I could I would still eat them a lot (I still use about 8 oz of hemp seed oil every 2-3 days) That and strawberries/avocados : ). I'd love to be able to be a vegan/vegetarian.... But I would very likely occasionally at least eat meat. Mainly salmon. Pescatarian. I have never been big on meat, to be honest. Shrimp. I ate a lot of chicken, but I didn't miss it when I stopped. I also ate beef (and it was probably a lot the spices, and the fat and unique to numinants fat such as CLA), but didn't miss it either.

 

[socko]

Not really light that at all. You have a great heating system just like any state in US.
About the icy lake, it's not a shower, I have done it. It's something you know do once you know how and, normally you jump after the Sauna. It's quite refreshing but it's not a shower.
You need to do it right, don't let you head get wet. A lot of experienced old folks can teach you how so that you don't feel it burning.

What I was trying to imply is that a lot of people have bad hygiene and therefore stink whether or not they eat meat. France is a first world country, and everyone has access to hot water, soap, and deodorant. Some people choose not to use those things.

When I was at the cabin, I didn't have a sauna. I could put a lot of wood in the stove and heat the cabin up like one, but when it is below freezing outside ande the water is at the freezing point, and you are standing barefoot or in sandals in the snow or dancing around on a towel to keep from getting frostbite on your toes, it hurts every time. I did it for a year, including the entire winter, and it never got less painful. I tried all the tricks I could think to do like keeping my head dry, staying in for only a few seconds, sponging, moving fast, etc. I have virtually no body fat for insulation, unlike the "polar bears" in pictures I've seen. I had to get used to the pain. If there is a painless way to do it, I'd love to hear it.

 

[What 23]

Again I say... Soap and deodorant aren't needed.