Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[when I dream]

I have been on kratom and antibiotics before (azithromycin and then amoxicillin) and I can tell you that it didn't seem like either hurt the action of the other in any way. The kratom still worked fine but it turned out that I probably did not need the antibiotics (I'm sort of upset about that actually, antibiotics are entirely overused) so I can't tell you for sure whether the kratom may affect the action of the antibiotics.

As far as the immunosuppressant stuff goes I really don't know so I'll defer to someone who may know better than I.

 

[when I dream]

Its been 3 weeks guys, still recovering form kratom. Sent mw to the dr. Im jaundice and still gave nausea. 3 weeks of this. Ohh... with a nasty itch that won't stop. Im soo exhausted. Never again. Let this be a warning to new people. I qas very sensative. Got dark brown urine on the 5th day. Then it was downhill. Luckily all blood work shows no liver damage. But super hifh bilirubin at 12.5. The itch at night keeps me up. Only get about 1 to 2 of sleep for the last 3 weeks. And always wake up drenched in sweat. From reading. .. some people recovered in 2 months. Ill take the 3 days of hell from quiting opiates next time. Gladly take those 3 days.

Hope you feel better soon. I'm sure it will continue to get better just hang in there.

 

[thc_enigma]

should call this the kratom complaints thread lol

 

[Mycophile]

Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.

 

[thc_enigma]

Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.

your takeing the wrong kratom for the evening.best to do sedating reds not.green and whites.8)

 

[when I dream]

Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.

Interesting post. Personally, I have never had trouble falling asleep on kratom. Just this morning I woke up at 7am like I always do because I'm used to going to work and wanted to fall back asleep so I took 6 grams and within an hour melted into a deep sleep that lasted until about an hour ago. I would say falling asleep on kratom is one of the greatest feelings kratom produces in me. I have definitely heard of other people having trouble sleeping on kratom, but I find it absolutely helps me fall asleep if that is what I want to do.

P.s. I use Bali kratom but I actually don't know what color vein it has. Not sure if the strain could actually determine whether it would be a sleep aid or a sleep deterrent though. I think everyone just has their own reaction to kratom, but I could be wrong.

 

[Mycophile]

your takeing the wrong kratom for the evening.best to do sedating reds not.green and whites.8)

I know, but I really like Green strains and if I take them like any sooner before bed then like 7 hours I can't sleep, but I still prefer the effects of Green Veins to Red.

Also, I don't always have enough cash to buy mulitiple veins so sometimes I just have to choose one and Green is my favorite.

 

[Mycophile]

Interesting post. Personally, I have never had trouble falling asleep on kratom. Just this morning I woke up at 7am like I always do because I'm used to going to work and wanted to fall back asleep so I took 6 grams and within an hour melted into a deep sleep that lasted until about an hour ago. I would say falling asleep on kratom is one of the greatest feelings kratom produces in me. I have definitely heard of other people having trouble sleeping on kratom, but I find it absolutely helps me fall asleep if that is what I want to do.

P.s. I use Bali kratom but I actually don't know what color vein it has. Not sure if the strain could actually determine whether it would be a sleep aid or a sleep deterrent though. I think everyone just has their own reaction to kratom, but I could be wrong.

I think Bali is usually a red vein.

Personally I don't like Bali as much as Green Malay but I like to mix the two.

And yes, I absolutely have an easier time sleeping on Bali than Green Malay.

 

[crunkazcanbe]

Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.

This is very interesting read man , and I can honestly say I get this same exact thing . I take anywhere from 10-18 grams all in one go every night that is until I found out about Tianeptine, but thats a different story . It does not matter to me I take red or green strain I always end up staying up until about 5-6 in the morning thats even with 2-3 beers with it to . I know everyone has there preferences , but in my opinion the green malay is by far the most euphoric strain . I take 18 grams , and just when I can just about feel it I go eat a light meal about 1 sandwich then like clock work every time I eat it potentates the fuck out of it I go into this state that all I can describe it as is like the come up on acid in this kinda out of it state then the oxycodone like effects come on , and I sit up all night melting in my PC chair playing PC games. PC gamer here 11k dollar pc water cooled built just for gaming .

TBH kratom is nice , but I have almost totally moved away from it to tianeptine which is by far more like oxycodone , and in fact I like it more then so , and I know what oxy is like since I get 120 30mg IR tabs a month prescribed to me . Now the tianeptine will knock you on your ass I know ;because I took 350mg right before going into me and my wifes friends house yesterday to eat dinner with them , and I was nodding out in my plate of food . Lets just say my wife had to take me home . But boy I was in full blown melt in my seat nod out heaven .

 

[belfort]

Its been 3 weeks guys, still recovering form kratom. Sent mw to the dr. Im jaundice and still gave nausea. 3 weeks of this. Ohh... with a nasty itch that won't stop. Im soo exhausted. Never again. Let this be a warning to new people. I qas very sensative. Got dark brown urine on the 5th day. Then it was downhill. Luckily all blood work shows no liver damage. But super hifh bilirubin at 12.5. The itch at night keeps me up. Only get about 1 to 2 of sleep for the last 3 weeks. And always wake up drenched in sweat. From reading. .. some people recovered in 2 months. Ill take the 3 days of hell from quiting opiates next time. Gladly take those 3 days.

uhh what opiates are you talking about when u mention only 3 days of hell??from everything ive read kratom withdrawals are weak when compared to true opiod(vicoden/oxy) withdrawals..

 

[crunkazcanbe]

uhh what opiates are you talking about when u mention only 3 days of hell??from everything ive read kratom withdrawals are weak when compared to true opiod(vicoden/oxy) withdrawals..

This must be a 1 in a million case this dude had. lol But tbh man I have had pretty rough withdrawals from Kratom myself with about 18-20 grams a day for a few months I say are about 85% the same as when I came off of a few month binge of 420 mg a day of oxy . Same damn bad RLS same yawning, watery nose eyes, aching bones , and muscles .

 

[Drew.]

Recently went to the doctor to get my kidneys checked out. Turns out there's a trace of blood in my pee that I didn't know about (can't see it)
Whether this is from kratom or not is undecided; but it could be a contributing factor especially when I use it every day. I've since slowed down since the tests. I'll follow up the results.

 

[FormerSurfer]

This must be a 1 in a million case this dude had. lol But tbh man I have had pretty rough withdrawals from Kratom myself with about 18-20 grams a day for a few months I say are about 85% the same as when I came off of a few month binge of 420 mg a day of oxy . Same damn bad RLS same yawning, watery nose eyes, aching bones , and muscles .

same here crunk. I am currently tapering down from about 10-15 grams of red vein powder daily and im experiencing some pretty heavy withdrawls. Definitely not equivelant to opiate withdrawls but its a lot worse imo than everything ive been told. Most people talk about sleeplessness during wd's but what i get is the opposite, I cant stay awake.. and cant focus my attention on anything when i am awake. If im in a car for more than 20 minutes i stand no chance of staying awake. That, along with the restlessness, anxiety and constant aggravation remind me a lot of opiate wd

 

[thc_enigma]

same here crunk. I am currently tapering down from about 10-15 grams of red vein powder daily and im experiencing some pretty heavy withdrawls. Definitely not equivelant to opiate withdrawls but its a lot worse imo than everything ive been told. Most people talk about sleeplessness during wd's but what i get is the opposite, I cant stay awake.. and cant focus my attention on anything when i am awake. If im in a car for more than 20 minutes i stand no chance of staying awake. That, along with the restlessness, anxiety and constant aggravation remind me a lot of opiate wd

half of it is the outher alcalods aswell the adrenal stimulants and mabye some act on dopamine,10-15 is not mutch if im honest.mabye you should get some dl phenylalanine?

 

[Mycophile]

Ok, I need to ask a serious question to all people who are experienced with Kratom.

I've discussed this with tons of people on here and I get different answers all the time:

If a person can keep Kratom usage to no more than 2-3 days a week with plain leaf (3 days MAX) is it likely that they can avoid physical dependence??

Note, I am NOT asking whether or not a person CAN keep it to 3 days a week, or whether or not they'll become Psychologically addicted, only whether or not it is realistically feasible to assume that if a person keeps their usage to 3 days a week max, that they won't become physically dependent.


I have been told by some experienced users that 3 days a week is most likely NOT enough to become physically dependent, and SO FAR (knock on would) keeping it to usually 2 days a week has not caused me to become physically dependent.

However, some posters will say that it is NOT possible to avoid physical dependence by keeping it to 3 days a week, so I don't know what to believe.


Also, when people say there is a "ceiling dose" for Kratom which if you go beyond it you won't get high, isn't that ceiling effect also dependent on your tolerance and your sweet spot?

Like, if you usually feel good on 2 1/2 teaspoons and your ceiling dose is 3 1/2 at which point you will no longer get high, then when your sweet spot increases to being 3 1/2 teaspoons won't your ceiling dose also raise to like 4 1/2 or something?


I've been feeling fine with Kratom so far.

I haven't had WDs and I've kept it REASONABLY moderate.


But here was a post I got from someone else here:


"Hey Mycophile, I have some of the same problems as you only I'm an opioid addict as well, so I can offer you some insight of what your life will be like if you decide to keep dosing kratom three times per week. At this rate you WILL become physically dependent, it will just take a little longer. Drugs like kratom as one of the above posters said work on the Mu opiate receptor in the brain, in turn it releases large amounts of dopamine in of the most primal parts of brain, at first. Eventually tolerance sets in and you can no longer get those beneficial effects. If I'm not mistaken kratom also has a ceiling dose, meaning it doesn't get more potent as you increase dose, so when you hit the ceiling, the party's over. There are 3 main parts involved and one part controls memory, meaning you'll never forget the good feelings you got from that causing you
to have cravings for the rest of your life. They dim over time, but they'll be there for life. Also, since you'll be dependent, if you ever use it again you'll be dependent and be in withdrawal from only a few days use."


So, is this guy right?

And if so, how infrequently do people think I need to dose to avoid physical dependence?



I like Kratom and I've felt confident in my ability to not abuse it way too much too far and I don't want to have to completely quit but if I have to I will.

I would rather tone it down to once a week than quit though and I'd assume this is possible and every experience I've had so far leads me to believe it is, but then someone says something like this and I question all of the advice I've gotten thus far.

 

[liftedgift]

^^ Nobody is going to be able to give a 100% answer on if 3 days a week will cause dependence. You said you are doing fine with 2 days a week, well there's only one way to find out how you would feel on 3 days a week.

"Also, since you'll be dependent, if you ever use it again you'll be dependent and be in withdrawal from only a few days use." This is total bullshit though. I used plain leaf kratom daily for over 2 years, stopped for 6 months or so and now I take it occasionally. Never had any physical WD come up and I know the kratom WD very well.

 

[Mycophile]

^^ Nobody is going to be able to give a 100% answer on if 3 days a week will cause dependence. You said you are doing fine with 2 days a week, well there's only one way to find out how you would feel on 3 days a week.

"Also, since you'll be dependent, if you ever use it again you'll be dependent and be in withdrawal from only a few days use." This is total bullshit though. I used plain leaf kratom daily for over 2 years, stopped for 6 months or so and now I take it occasionally. Never had any physical WD come up and I know the kratom WD very well.

I think this guy may not be experienced with Kratom and just other opioids but from what I've read there are some differences between Kratom and regular opiates.

Can I ask you how often you have used Kratom a week at the absolute max while still avoiding physical dependence?

And also, isn't a person's ceiling dose dependent on their sweet spot?

Like, if your tolerance increases and your sweet spot raises then doesn't your ceiling dose, beyond the point where you can't get high, just increase along with your tolerance?


With Kratom no two people seem to be of the same opinion.

So many people here talk about it likes its not a big deal while others make it sound like I'm gonna suddenly wake up one day shaking and vomiting my guts out from 3 days a week.

 

[Mycophile]

Fuck, I guess I'm just on my own here.

What gets me is that with every other drug I've ever done "what felt right" ended up working out, meaning that if I thought I was using too much I did my best to dial it back and because I have never been into very addictive drugs I've generally been alright.

But when I have people telling me that "what feels like it's working" to me isn't to be trusted, that I can be fine dosing 2 or 3 days a week but one day I'm going to wake up physically dependent in Withdrawal, well then I don't know what to believe.

If I trust myself and what I've experienced thus far I think two days a week will probably always be fine, that 3 is pushing it, and more than that is trouble k...if I trust others everyone has a different opinion.

I guess there's really no guidebook to Kratom at all and everyone is on their own with it.

 

[《Plasticity》]

"Also, since you'll be dependent, if you ever use it again you'll be dependent and be in withdrawal from only a few days use." This is total bullshit though. I used plain leaf kratom daily for over 2 years, stopped for 6 months or so and now I take it occasionally. Never had any physical WD come up and I know the kratom WD very well.

Speak for yourself, last time I quit was for around 6 or 7 months and I was back in withdrawal after maybe 3 or 4 doses within a 3 day period, legit withdrawal too. With that said I have taken many, many breaks during the 4 or so years of using kratom, perhaps this is a factor. Like they say, every time you quit withdrawal becomes easier and easier to trigger... unfortunately this has been my experience.

I will say that this wasn't an issue during the beginning phases of addiction, or should I say the first few times I took a break... somewhere within the first year of addiction. As long as you take a step back when noticing the first hints of physical addiction you should be able to resume infrequent dosing after a break, ymmv.

 

[Mycophile]

Simple question: I took 2 3/4 teaspoons Green Malay earlier and was starting to feel nice, so I took another 3/4 teaspoons and my high completely went away.

Is this just a result of the ceiling effect of me passing my sweet spot by taking too much so the high went away?

Has anyone experienced this before and would people recommend I take smaller doses?

Seems to be the case but I haven't heard anyone else say that taking too much resulted in them feeling like they'd never dosed at all.

Thanks