letstalkaboutthis
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2015
- Messages
- 6
Hey guys,
Let me start this post by a somewhat brief summary of my own experience, and then share some knowledge that might be useful in the discussion on MDMA related problems. Since i ended up with quite a bit of text now i decided to bold the key parts.
Ive been browsing through this forum a bit and was interested to see some anecdotal stories about possibly MDMA related problems that inspired me to tell my story and ask a few questions. In the year of 2009, i did mdma (although not tested) exactly twice. I dont remember the amount per try but the actual trips where not problematic at all. But something changed afterwards. the aftereffects that probably everybody here know all too well didn't fade. instead it all went worse very rapidly until like one month later, i was experiencing what felt like utter insanity. No actual visual or auditory hallucinations, but such indescribable, meaningless desperation, crying spells, physical anxiety in legs and arms, pressure feelings on stomach and head, derealizations, shivers, it was unreal. And Oh how it all changed through the day so very rapidly. So often i was almost or even completely back to normal in the evening, but i went to sleep and boom i woke up in deepest hell, and then it was a massive rollercoaster through the day, trying to survive and not to give into the thought that's just so natural in that situation. One of the weirdest things where the occasional out of nowhere moments of reliefs that rarely even brought a sudden feeling of happiness and 'its all good now', only to be back down a few hours/minutes later.
That's what it was back then. After three months of surviving like this (and of course not being able to function at all), i went to see a psychiatrist, was diagnosed with a classical form of depression, started SSRI medication, and it saved my life. saved, yes, i can somewhat function. but i must also admit that i am not back to normal, six years in. And yes, i did do my fair share of staying healthy, not taking drugs, sports, seeing therapists etc., but at the end of the day, nothing really helped besides those pills, as sad as it is. Most symptoms are still there, and after so many years i have good reason to believe it might never revert by itself, although i must also acknowledge that i have not tried every treatment option available even after this long time, at times because i am afraid to lose what i have now and even go back deep down, and in better times because i believe i am able to bear with it for now and hope it solves itself, even after this long time (side effects and going on and off meds can be unpredictable). The thing is, its all so much on and off...the daytime related relief in the evening is almost universal, but even on a larger scale the symptoms appear to be rough at times for some time, and then rather mild at others.
Also, i do know the other end of the spectrum...sometimes, i get those kicks, just like when taking stimulants (except i didnt), those burst of energy and feelings of greatness, but i doesn't last. unlike in the classical bipolar disorder cases, its not like im really manic/hypomanic for weeks, its just those bursts, it can even mix with the depression part.
Now lets talk about whats actually happening, or might be here. So basically ive done my fair share of reading studies and talking to professionals in the last couple of years, moreso in the beginning than now where i mostly gave up (but sometimes i just cant help it).
In recent times, the term 'depression' seems to have been used quite inflationary, and my own experience just appears to be so very different than what most people describe when they talk about depression that its hart to actually relate. Now if you read up on this a bit more, you find that earlier in the research of affective disorders, the term 'melancholic (or endogeneous) depression' was used to denote a particular type of depression that is extremely similar to what people around here like to coin Long Term Comedown. In particular, this intensive change of severity with the time of day and the somatic symptoms (like physical anxiety etc.) are some of the things used to identify said subtype of depression. Historically, the differentiation between such a melancholic depression thought to be due to some cns (central nervous system) related issues (aka 'chemical imbalance', a term that sounds so cliche i like to avoid it), and reactionary depression (as in due to issues in life) was made much stronger than now. This was somewhat dropped for several reasons, but whether that was a good idea or not is not clear at all.
From the onset to now, i've seen several psychiatrists and while i am overall extremely disappointed and mostly doubt the integrity of the field due to the way the studies are done, where i ended i would say is about as good as it gets, as im in the ambulant care of a psych ward. When talking to my current doctor about what actually happened back then and if MDMA really was the issue even though the amount taken was extremely small, the answer is basically that there are no studies about this issue so far, but there is widespread anecdotal evidence that even small doses can lead to the outbreak of long lasting disorders if there is a predisposition, so the chance is there. However, not a single psychiatrist i have talked to considered to assume some 'LTC' syndrome unique to MDMA that's different from a clinical relevant depression that was caused by whatever reasons. But is that because studies are missing yet, or because it really is just classical depression? In the latter case, the question of 'permanent brain damage' feels ill asked. If MDMA can lead to the outbreak of chronic, clinical depression, well, the brain damage is obviously permanent if one considers the brain of such a patient 'damaged', but in that case anything that lead to the outbreak of such a depressive disorder is causing 'brain damage', and MDMA itself isn't toxic in the classical sense (and most people get away just fine). On the other hand, it just appears that the anecdotal stories on this board and others that complain about longlasting depression like symptoms after even modest use of MDMA are just so much more numerous than any other drug. Indeed, id like to ask a question: Are there any self reports of people suffering from these 'LTC' syndromes reporting only modest usage of other illicit drugs (what about coke or speed), and not secondary depression that's related to addiction or craving or whatever? that would be extremely interesting to me.
Seriously, the parts of the CNS ecstasy works on are literally what is mostly suspected to be of key importance to affective disorders, even targeted by actual antidepressants. Unfortunately, that's all that is really known: There is serotonin (among others), and it somehow plays a role...its a shame really. But, is what we are experiencing really just the classical, most brutal form of depression? When you go and read up on anecdotal reports of people cold turkeying or unsuccessfully tapering off SSRI's, you get extremely similar descriptions to what people report here on LTC, and then there is this old subtype of depression, that also sounds so similar, thats also suspected to be related to something something serotonin.
As for my case, due to the infrequent phases of mixed symptomatic, there is a suspicion of this actually being a somewhat nasty bipolar disorder with mixed episodes, but i'm hesitant to try bipolar medication so far. So, let me also ask a question: To those that can relate with their symptoms (i have seen quite a few reports here reading of which is interesting considering i really find it hard to relate to most discussions about depression), Did you ever have those weird, stimulant like feelings during the time without actually taking stimulants at all?
Ultimately, it might very well be that MDMA wasn't even playing any role in my case, and it just happens to have happened at the same time. But believe me, the way it changes a person from the inside out...its unreal. This isn't your usual 'depression' people talk about. I always found it very hard, mostly impossible, to believe that this just happened by chance, or due to some life problem that ripped me apart the way it did initially without me recognizing it. But i must admit, i do still go out (its easy in the evening and when the phase is alright), and from when it started i kept to never touching MDMA or anything similar again. But when seeing others enjoy themselves rolling and without getting into any trouble, its tempting to just believe i might as well.
Edit: fixed too many typos
Let me start this post by a somewhat brief summary of my own experience, and then share some knowledge that might be useful in the discussion on MDMA related problems. Since i ended up with quite a bit of text now i decided to bold the key parts.
Ive been browsing through this forum a bit and was interested to see some anecdotal stories about possibly MDMA related problems that inspired me to tell my story and ask a few questions. In the year of 2009, i did mdma (although not tested) exactly twice. I dont remember the amount per try but the actual trips where not problematic at all. But something changed afterwards. the aftereffects that probably everybody here know all too well didn't fade. instead it all went worse very rapidly until like one month later, i was experiencing what felt like utter insanity. No actual visual or auditory hallucinations, but such indescribable, meaningless desperation, crying spells, physical anxiety in legs and arms, pressure feelings on stomach and head, derealizations, shivers, it was unreal. And Oh how it all changed through the day so very rapidly. So often i was almost or even completely back to normal in the evening, but i went to sleep and boom i woke up in deepest hell, and then it was a massive rollercoaster through the day, trying to survive and not to give into the thought that's just so natural in that situation. One of the weirdest things where the occasional out of nowhere moments of reliefs that rarely even brought a sudden feeling of happiness and 'its all good now', only to be back down a few hours/minutes later.
That's what it was back then. After three months of surviving like this (and of course not being able to function at all), i went to see a psychiatrist, was diagnosed with a classical form of depression, started SSRI medication, and it saved my life. saved, yes, i can somewhat function. but i must also admit that i am not back to normal, six years in. And yes, i did do my fair share of staying healthy, not taking drugs, sports, seeing therapists etc., but at the end of the day, nothing really helped besides those pills, as sad as it is. Most symptoms are still there, and after so many years i have good reason to believe it might never revert by itself, although i must also acknowledge that i have not tried every treatment option available even after this long time, at times because i am afraid to lose what i have now and even go back deep down, and in better times because i believe i am able to bear with it for now and hope it solves itself, even after this long time (side effects and going on and off meds can be unpredictable). The thing is, its all so much on and off...the daytime related relief in the evening is almost universal, but even on a larger scale the symptoms appear to be rough at times for some time, and then rather mild at others.
Also, i do know the other end of the spectrum...sometimes, i get those kicks, just like when taking stimulants (except i didnt), those burst of energy and feelings of greatness, but i doesn't last. unlike in the classical bipolar disorder cases, its not like im really manic/hypomanic for weeks, its just those bursts, it can even mix with the depression part.
Now lets talk about whats actually happening, or might be here. So basically ive done my fair share of reading studies and talking to professionals in the last couple of years, moreso in the beginning than now where i mostly gave up (but sometimes i just cant help it).
In recent times, the term 'depression' seems to have been used quite inflationary, and my own experience just appears to be so very different than what most people describe when they talk about depression that its hart to actually relate. Now if you read up on this a bit more, you find that earlier in the research of affective disorders, the term 'melancholic (or endogeneous) depression' was used to denote a particular type of depression that is extremely similar to what people around here like to coin Long Term Comedown. In particular, this intensive change of severity with the time of day and the somatic symptoms (like physical anxiety etc.) are some of the things used to identify said subtype of depression. Historically, the differentiation between such a melancholic depression thought to be due to some cns (central nervous system) related issues (aka 'chemical imbalance', a term that sounds so cliche i like to avoid it), and reactionary depression (as in due to issues in life) was made much stronger than now. This was somewhat dropped for several reasons, but whether that was a good idea or not is not clear at all.
From the onset to now, i've seen several psychiatrists and while i am overall extremely disappointed and mostly doubt the integrity of the field due to the way the studies are done, where i ended i would say is about as good as it gets, as im in the ambulant care of a psych ward. When talking to my current doctor about what actually happened back then and if MDMA really was the issue even though the amount taken was extremely small, the answer is basically that there are no studies about this issue so far, but there is widespread anecdotal evidence that even small doses can lead to the outbreak of long lasting disorders if there is a predisposition, so the chance is there. However, not a single psychiatrist i have talked to considered to assume some 'LTC' syndrome unique to MDMA that's different from a clinical relevant depression that was caused by whatever reasons. But is that because studies are missing yet, or because it really is just classical depression? In the latter case, the question of 'permanent brain damage' feels ill asked. If MDMA can lead to the outbreak of chronic, clinical depression, well, the brain damage is obviously permanent if one considers the brain of such a patient 'damaged', but in that case anything that lead to the outbreak of such a depressive disorder is causing 'brain damage', and MDMA itself isn't toxic in the classical sense (and most people get away just fine). On the other hand, it just appears that the anecdotal stories on this board and others that complain about longlasting depression like symptoms after even modest use of MDMA are just so much more numerous than any other drug. Indeed, id like to ask a question: Are there any self reports of people suffering from these 'LTC' syndromes reporting only modest usage of other illicit drugs (what about coke or speed), and not secondary depression that's related to addiction or craving or whatever? that would be extremely interesting to me.
Seriously, the parts of the CNS ecstasy works on are literally what is mostly suspected to be of key importance to affective disorders, even targeted by actual antidepressants. Unfortunately, that's all that is really known: There is serotonin (among others), and it somehow plays a role...its a shame really. But, is what we are experiencing really just the classical, most brutal form of depression? When you go and read up on anecdotal reports of people cold turkeying or unsuccessfully tapering off SSRI's, you get extremely similar descriptions to what people report here on LTC, and then there is this old subtype of depression, that also sounds so similar, thats also suspected to be related to something something serotonin.
As for my case, due to the infrequent phases of mixed symptomatic, there is a suspicion of this actually being a somewhat nasty bipolar disorder with mixed episodes, but i'm hesitant to try bipolar medication so far. So, let me also ask a question: To those that can relate with their symptoms (i have seen quite a few reports here reading of which is interesting considering i really find it hard to relate to most discussions about depression), Did you ever have those weird, stimulant like feelings during the time without actually taking stimulants at all?
Ultimately, it might very well be that MDMA wasn't even playing any role in my case, and it just happens to have happened at the same time. But believe me, the way it changes a person from the inside out...its unreal. This isn't your usual 'depression' people talk about. I always found it very hard, mostly impossible, to believe that this just happened by chance, or due to some life problem that ripped me apart the way it did initially without me recognizing it. But i must admit, i do still go out (its easy in the evening and when the phase is alright), and from when it started i kept to never touching MDMA or anything similar again. But when seeing others enjoy themselves rolling and without getting into any trouble, its tempting to just believe i might as well.
Edit: fixed too many typos
Last edited:
