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Belief in god or not?

Western society makes people anti-Christian, though. At least from what I've seen. It has a kind of reverse psychology effect.

It's like you're brainwashed with that Jesus stuff from you're born and soon you can't stomach any more of it. That's the effect it has on most.

Anyway, after growing up like that I started thinking I might have been double-fooled.
 
I was similar in moving away from the Christian paradigm but when I started the course back towards such things I moved into a spirituality area, not Religion. I can't see the Christ story ever meaning much to me but I am learning a lot about things spiritual. Maybe I'll met him in the astral one day... :D
 
The "best" Christians are those who chose to be Christian, rather than being brainwashed into it. Having not grown up with Jesus being forced down my throat (my entire extended family are atheists), I consider myself lucky to have found the NT... The anti-Christian mentality often - indeed - stems from trauma, for lack of a better word. And, I totally get that. If I was forced to sing to Jesus when I was a kid, I doubt I'd be able to see beyond that. I'd probably hate everything about the church. Thankfully, I wasn't brought up Christian - I hardly stepped foot in a church, before the age of 25 - so, I don't have any reason to hate or dismiss the NT...

I was similar in moving away from the Christian paradigm but when I started the course back towards such things I moved into a spirituality area, not Religion. I can't see the Christ story ever meaning much to me but I am learning a lot about things spiritual.
Click to expand...

While the NT isn't the greatest source of spiritual wisdom in the world (far from it), it is an amazing book.
Holy texts, generally, are limited in the sense that they are another person's account of the divine.
It is better, without question, to experience God yourself... though, why not do both?

Most people use religion as a path to God, but it's better the other way around IMO.
If you know God personally, the NT - and all other holy texts - start to make a lot more sense.
It is very difficult to truly know God, vicariously, through other people's experiences.

Most priests will tell you that your relationship with God is more important than your understanding of the Bible.
Yet - from my observations - the majority of Christians focus on the Bible, rather than God.
The Bible, ironically, has become somewhat of a false idol. But, it doesn't have to be.
 
If there is anything we could call 'God', i would say it's just nature herself.
Just as an intelligent being that pervades everything. I think nature is definitely intelligent.
And I would say that we are also a part of it. That nature (God) works through us humansfor it's purpose. Whatever that may be.
That's as far as i would go with it.
 
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^
Our perception is so limited.
Us trying to comprehend God and God's ways is kin to asking a robot to comprehend the person that makes it.
Not currently possible.
I believe one day we will be able to experience an unknown sense (a different dimension of intuition) that will allow us to truly experience God and holly understanding......
we are only getting a one dimensional slice at the moment.
 
Smoky said:
Maybe we don't have to make a decision ...
Click to expand...
IMO
Everyone makes this decision and it is what determines one's world view.
Personally I think everyone intuitively knows God exists.
Beyond that is up for debate.
 
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I like the quote "we are all born with the knowledge of how to survive, how to love etc. But we are not born with the knowledge of god."

I also like the one where the pastor comes to a village of Eskimos to teach them about god, sin, heaven and hell. Afterwards one Eskimo goes up to the pastor and asks " If I did not know about god and sin would I go to hell for my sins?" "No" replied the pastor "not if you did not know" The Eskimo then asks the pastor "Why then did you tell me?"
 
I mean, what about the belief in a god. Or better, a "creator" comes from certain human inventions that that nessesitate a creator that we use to explain reality when really we're jus explaining the thing we're using as a metaphor. Like the book. After the book was invented human beings got ahold of the notion that there has to be a "writer", or creator, for the world to exist. Then people started using that metaphorically in religions. Ex. In Christianity, the idea of God created the world by using 'words'.
Descartes had the notion of a Clockwork Universe where a God must have spun the world up and then let it go, like a clock, for it to have existed at all. And people believed that because they lived in the era if the clock.
Aren't these just ideas that we have implanted in us because of our culture that is so Over-technological that we can't think straight?
Before we had all these things, the world just 'was'. Grass grew, the seasons changed, the sun went up and down because we knew intuitively that nature was capable of these things.
After these technologies were invented they split up and confused our world-view.

No?
 
ForEverAfter said:
What? (Should I ask?)
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I believe you are asking ☺

You can ask God for more knowledge of God
but your knowledge of God comes from God.
In other words God is in control.
Be obedient to his word.
You don't solve an equation that = God or logically deduce perception of God.
God draws you near and you either submit or push away.
Have you ever felt God draw you near?

will throw out my opinion to be pc
Proceed with debate
 
No?
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No.

Nature is creation. Species procreate. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Everything - individually - comes from something else, so we assume that everything - as a whole - must also come from something else. The assumption that something created everything is just as plausible - if not more so - than the assumption that nothing created everything... based on everything we know about the functionality of life in the universe, not just human technology.

As for the clockwork theory: it goes hand in hand with evolution.
(If you believe in both evolution and God, that is.)
It doesn't have anything to do with clocks.

As we become more advanced as a species, we create things other than our children.
Less advanced species only procreate. Humans create.
At the upper end of this scale is God, the - theoretical - omnipotent creator.

After these technologies were invented they split up and confused our world-view.
Click to expand...

Maybe Descartes was less confused than you are.
 
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meth,

I was confused about your wording, I guess.
Particularly the word naturally.

No one naturally seeks God?
It is not in our nature to seek answers?
It is not in our nature to seek God?

I very much disagree.

If God is always in control, what about those who seek God where He cannot be found? (Idolators.)
As a literal Christian, surely you don't believe that every religion is correct?
Also, don't some people seek God for the wrong reasons?
 
McTavish said:
like the book. After the book was invented human beings got ahold of the notion that there has to be a "writer", or creator, for the world to exist.
Click to expand...
Im not sure what notion humans had before or after they begin to write things down.
How do we know why they believed in a creator?
But logically intelligence comes from intelligence.
Then people started using that metaphorically in religions. Ex. In Christianity, the idea of God created the world by using 'words'.
Click to expand...
Qantum physics shows vibrations play a key role in universe. What is sound but vibrations.
What are spoken words?
McTavish said:
Descartes had the notion of a Clockwork Universe where a God must have spun the world up and then let it go, like a clock, for it to have existed at all. And people believed that because they lived in the era if the clock.
Click to expand...

God can exist in the past,present, and future simultaneously. God is, was, and always will be.
God's infiniteness allows this.
God transcends time.
McTavish said:
Aren't these just ideas that we have implanted in us because of our culture that is so Over-technological that we can't think straight?
Before we had all these things, the world just 'was'. Grass grew, the seasons changed, the sun went up and down because we knew intuitively that nature was capable of these things.
After these technologies were invented they split up and confused our world-view.
No?
Click to expand...
Some knowledge comes at a price.
Wouldn't it be great to live in Garden of Eden without any technology.
 
How do you know everyone makes a decision?
Who is everyone?
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^Agnostics tend to sway one way or the other.
Although some people identify as agnostic, absolute neutrality is impossible... or, at least, I've never met anyone who can manage it.
I tend to agree with meth, in that "everyone intuitively knows God exists". (God being a non-specific, undefined super entity.)
You can't know God doesn't exist. To say, with absolute certainty, that God doesn't exist is revealing of... something.
Every agnostic - really - sways towards the belief that God does exist IMO, regardless of what they say.

Atheism is impossible. (You can't know God doesn't exist.)
Agnosticism is practically impossible. (People are not robots.)
That only leaves deism & theism. (You can know God.)

Us trying to comprehend God and God's ways is kin to asking a robot to comprehend the person that makes it.
Click to expand...

That analogy is positively awful.
 
Qantum physics shows vibrations play a key role in universe. What is sound but vibrations.
What are spoken words?
Click to expand...

Well said. That is my favorite quote from you, so far.

(Sincerely.)
 
Smoky said:
How do you know everyone makes a decision?
Who is everyone?
Click to expand...

Sorry, should clarify that.
Everyone who reaches the exact point where they are able to ask themselves if there is a God,
follows that questioning with a decision on that question.(conscious or not)
I don't believe you can be a little pregnant on this one.
Moreover, i don't believe it is possible to not know of your "pregnancy" once you feel the baby kick.
It's my opinion that God makes himself known and you are free to ask for more knowledge or reject what knowledge you are given.
Again my personal opinions
 
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Disbelieving in God justifies widespread sin (like piracy).

We want to live in a meaningless universe.
It is convenient, but that doesn't make it so.
 
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