Here we go... I'm new here, and I'm done.

[CamaroChick]

Hi y'all. Thanks to 3 herniated discs in my back and friends who said hey try a pain doc, here I am 3 years, 2 doctors and many hydro and perc later with a 60-75mg/daily oxy habit. I know this isn't considered severe by most people but to me, it is. I can't go 12 hours without the stuff. I hate how the WD feels. I'm not me anymore. And after a series of events in the last month, I have decided that I am done.

I was in a very bad car wreck (t boned in my Camaro by a buick doing 60mph) a month ago which further damaged my back. My doc upped me from 15mg 4x daily to 20mg 4x daily for 2 weeks, then back to 15. Of course, going back down to 15 didn't work, and when I tried honesty, they switched me to Nucynta. I had a terrible reaction to that stuff. I was hallucinating, itching, heart pounding, dizzy, nauseous. Doctor said it was withdrawal (I know the difference and it was not) after they assured me just that morning that I would not go into WD by switching. So they lied to me. Then refused to listen when I told them what was happening to me. He told me I needed to take a break from pain meds and to stop taking anything at all. No taper down, nothing. Just bye, come back in a week. He was cutting off other patients too and I have a sneaking suspicion that he got smacked by the DEA. This should be illegal, forcing me to be sick. I own my own business and cannot be sick like that.

This angered me obviously. But it also made me realize that my anger was misplaced. I've got a problem. And maybe I should try some other outlets before swimming in narcotics for the rest of my life.

I found a primary care doc (I just moved states so all my doctors are new ish), told him about everything. He was kind and understanding. He wants to try celebrex and steroids first. He gave me some percs to wean off the oxy but honestly I don't want them anymore.

Thus, the done part. I contacted a friend, who gave me 24 mg of suboxone. Dissolving 3mg as we speak now that full WD has hit after my dose last night. Wish me luck. I've never had to ask for help; I am usually stronger than this person. I can't wait to be me again. I would rather deal with a little pain than a lot of remorse and guilt... and narcotics.

 

[Erikmen]

Welcome to BL!!
I believe you have shown the courage that it takes to change things in life.
You should not feel bad about asking for help. That´s not a sign of weakness or anything like that. On the contrary.
You will find a lot of help and good willing people here in BL.
Good luck for now and keep us posted!

 

[CamaroChick]

Thank you!

An hour in and I feel wonderful. I haven't felt like this since before my injuries, before the opiates. This stuff is a miracle and I am so thankful for my friend who gave it to me.

Here is the sub taper schedule I have set for myself based on much research and reading, especially here.

Day 1 - 3mg
Day 2 - 3mg
Day 3 - 2mg
Day 4 - 2mg
Day 5 - 1mg
Day 6 - 1mg
Day 7 - .5
Skip a day
Day 9 - .5
Skip a day
Day 11 - .25
Skip a day
Day 13 - .25
Day 14, jump back into my life.

I hope this seems reasonable.

 

[Erikmen]

It seems fine, however, I would not schedule skipping a day until stable at .25.
This is to avoid unnecessary "going backwards". But if you feel it´s possible, that´s great.

 

[CamaroChick]

Thank you for the advice! So instead maybe

Day 1 - 3mg
Day 2 - 3mg
Day 3 - 2mg
Day 4 - 2mg
Day 5 - 1mg
Day 6 - 1mg
Day 7 - .5
Day 8 - .5
Day 9 - .25
Day 10 - .25
Skip a day
Day 12 - .125
Skip a day
Day 14 - .125
Day 15, jump?

 

[BlueSaffron]

Good luck! I totally know the feeling of being done. I'm 12 days clean of heroin as of today, taking suboxone. For me its helped a lot so far-like you said, its the closest to normal ive felt in a long time. Im trying to do a short term taper like you-im no expert but your taper schedule sounds good to me. Today im going to try to get by on 2 mg after taking 4 for the last few days-i know thats a bit fast but i have a limited supply.

Keep us updated on your progress you can do it!

 

[CamaroChick]

Yeah my friend gave me 3 8 mg strips and said I should have one left over after I'm done but said if I need more to let her know, however I do not want to trade one addiction for another so I will not be asking for more. I feel so blessed to have this outlet and am eternally grateful for her. Good luck and congratulations on 12 days clean, that's a huge accomplishment and you should be very proud of yourself! I have never tried heroin, or IV anything because everyone tells me once you do it you will never want to do any other drug any other way. Scary stuff. My drug experience is limited to some blow, pot and adderall in college, and now painkillers. Kudos to you for having the strength to put it down!

 

[CamaroChick]

Oh does anyone know if I will have any issues sleeping while on subs? I've heard I shouldn't take my Xanax or Valium (I rarely use those anyway, just a half when I can't sleep generally, my dad hooked me up with some). Would Tizanidine be okay to take with subs? Thanks in advance for any knowledge you all care to impart. I am grateful for this place.

 

[CamaroChick]

Oh as an addendum I feel like I should properly explain the source of my chronic pain. Before the recent 60mph t bone car wreck I had slight scoliosis between my shoulderblades, degenerative disc disease, 3 bulging discs and an annular tear (L3, 4, 5S1). Sciatica as a result, and just bending the wrong way can throw my back out and have me on the ground crying. After the wreck last month the pain is worse but i have not had another MRI to see what further damage was done. I'm worried that my new doctor's idea of celebrex and steroids won't work for me but I don't want any more narcotics. So I hope it does work, or at least make my pain manageable. No one ever gave me those options... when I got sick of taking ibuprofen and went to the pain doctor for thue first time after a hellish chiropractic visit which made my pain worse, the pain doctor immediately put me on hydro 10/500 and it was all downhill from there.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey CC and welcome to BL

Congratulations on making that tough choice. You can do this!!

This first part may sound discouraging.. don't worry you got this.. just thought I would throw down some information that you or others may find helpful.

The positive of useing suboxone to detox is that you will step down slower that if you detoxed the oxy. The draw back is that you will be in the tunnel longer.

No worries though.

This post got pretty large.. let me know if your on a phone and cant access it.

NSFW:

Thank you for the advice! So instead maybe

Day 1 - 3mg
Day 2 - 3mg
Day 3 - 2mg
Day 4 - 2mg
Day 5 - 1mg
Day 6 - 1mg
Day 7 - .5
Day 8 - .5
Day 9 - .25
Day 10 - .25
Skip a day
Day 12 - .125
Skip a day
Day 14 - .125
Day 15, jump?

Suboxone has an average half life of

The elimination half-life of buprenorphine is 20–73 hours (mean 37).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine

Based on all studies performed with SUBOXONE sublingual film, buprenorphine has a mean elimination half-life from plasma ranging from 24 to 42 hours and naloxone has a mean elimination half-life from plasma ranging from 2 to 12 hours.

In order for us to pass through the acute withdrawal phase we must eventually have all the medication be eliminated from our system and then we add on around four days.

To find out how long it will take to eliminate a substance from our system we take the half life and multiply it by six. Then we add on four days. This gives a really good estimate for how long we will be in the tunnel.

Half life is also very relevant when planning a tapper.

If you look at your schedule you have planned for 15 days. the half life of sub is 37 around 37 hours. 6x37=222h = 9.25 days then add on the time it takes the brain to adjust and you get an approximation of 13.25 days. What this means is that as you are finishing your tapper your brain will finally be adjusting back from the day one taper dose.

Also here is how half life works.. for every halflife time period your body eliminates half of what is present in the body from that dose.

So say you had taken 100mg of a chemical with a half life of ten hours. This is how the elimination would look.

0-10 h 100 to 50
10-20 50 to 25
30-40 25 to 12.5
40-50 12 to 6
50-60 6 to 3
60-70 3 to 1.5


So what is likely to happen with this taper is that you will do great for awhile, but then you will start to experience unpleasant withdrawal as the half life catches up. You will also still be in withdrawal for around two weeks after your last dose.

IMO for a person with a habit dose as significant as yours.. the best way to detox with suboxone would be to drop your daily dose every two weeks. This will allow the level to drop and the brain to reset before you drop again.

Withdrawals are different for everyone. Rapid sub detox generally works really well for people with lower dose and shorter length habits, but people with large long term habits have also had success with it.

If you have access to subs you may consider a tapper like this

Week 1&2 - 3mg
Week 3&4 - 2mg
Week 5&6 - 1mg
Week 7&8 - .5mg
Week 9&10 - .25mg
Jump or
Week 11&12 .125mg

Skipping a day on a taper will not have any positive benefit so it will prolong the withdrawal for no reason.

Here are some medications for acute opiate detox that you can explore to help you with the taper and the eventual jump.

NSFW:

medications for acute opiate detox

The medications I would explore the use of for detox would be:
>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE< >here<
OR >Lyrica<
OR >phenibut<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol
Senokot S is a stool softener and laxative. If you do not want the laxative you can go for strait stool softenerDioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate.

(Opi Withdrawal) what is the best comfort meds for opiate w/d?

Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal

In a few short weeks you will be free from the cuffs of physical dependence and you will no longer be a slave to chemicals.

In less than a year you should be past any PAWS and finding yourself in a pretty peaceful place.

 

[Erikmen]

Thank you for the advice! So instead maybe

Day 1 - 3mg
Day 2 - 3mg
Day 3 - 2mg
Day 4 - 2mg
Day 5 - 1mg
Day 6 - 1mg
Day 7 - .5
Day 8 - .5
Day 9 - .25
Day 10 - .25
Skip a day
Day 12 - .125
Skip a day
Day 14 - .125
Day 15, jump?

I think you came up with a perfect schedule!
I´m thinking it´s gonna be okay.
I had not seen the post from NSA, so you will probably have to consider the long life of this medication.
Good luck!!

 

[CamaroChick]

Day two. Didn't sleep much at all last night. Mostly just laid there and tried. Took tizanidine and half a Valium but it didn't help and I was afraid to take more with the dire warnings about benzos and subs. No noticible WD though.

 

[neversickanymore]

Way to go..

Since you are going to be tackling this with a rapid taper I would seriously consider going to a physician before day 6 and getting a script for the clonodine and one of either nerontin or lyrica. If you do not have these you may really love yourself in a couple of days for doing this.

 

[CamaroChick]

I have a script for celebrex and methylprednisolone as well as bupropion. Do you think anything else is needed? I'm not sure what my PCP will or will not give me but I think with my BP as high as its been I may be able to get some clonidine if it is a must. Thank you for the help!

 

[CamaroChick]

What sucks is that somewhere in my storage unit there is a bottle of clonidine from my grandma who died last year. Wish I knew where.

 

[neversickanymore]

Out of curiosity have you ever detoxed before or will this be your first (and hopefully last) time?


Have you experienced or know someone who has gotten good results useing the wellbutrin during the acute phase. One of its modes of action is an noradrenalin rebuke inhibitor. Noradrenaline usually spikes in acutes and the reason clonodine is taken is to control this. Spiked Noradrenaline causes some of the unpleasant side effects in acutes. Burning skin, akathisia, anxiety, fear, high blood pressure, fatigue.

It may have some positive effects on other symptoms.

Imo this is a great medication to utilize once the acutes are over.

Imo the lyrica or neurontin has the best chance at treating the restless legs and combined with a benzo at night a plausibility of getting some semblance of rest.

Lyrica and Gabapentin can cause dependency, there is really no chance if you take them for two or three weeks and the taper right off.

I saw that you have a ton of work at this time. I would really consider getting as much of that done before day six starts as well.


You got this.. just a little unpleasant march through the tunnel and you emerge free from the physical dependence.

 

[CamaroChick]

Out of curiosity have you ever detoxed before or will this be your first (and hopefully last) time?


Have you experienced or know someone who has gotten good results useing the wellbutrin during the acute phase. One of its modes of action is an noradrenalin rebuke inhibitor. Noradrenaline usually spikes in acutes and the reason clonodine is taken is to control this. Spiked Noradrenaline causes some of the unpleasant side effects in acutes. Burning skin, akathisia, anxiety, fear, high blood pressure, fatigue.

It may have some positive effects on other symptoms.

Imo this is a great medication to utilize once the acutes are over.

Imo the lyrica or neurontin has the best chance at treating the restless legs and combined with a benzo at night a plausibility of getting some semblance of rest.

Lyrica and Gabapentin can cause dependency, there is really no chance if you take them for two or three weeks and the taper right off.

I saw that you have a ton of work at this time. I would really consider getting as much of that done before day six starts as well.


You got this.. just a little unpleasant march through the tunnel and you emerge free from the physical dependence.

I have never truly detoxed before. I tried once with clonidine and valium, got 24 hours in and found more drugs.

I will take the wellbutrin per your thoughts. Is there anything I can do to avoid this Day 6 crash? I have another 8 mg of suboxen if I need to stretch my taper to 21 days. No way I can finish all my work in the next 3 days but I have a helper coming in 4 days to help me. Thank you again for your help

Day 3. Taper down to 2mg. Feel good. Took a 10mg Valium and a muscle relaxer and slept almost 11 hours last night which was amazing. It's nice to not be so focused on my next dose, looking at the clock to see when I can take it. Tonight hubby and I put up our first Christmas tree and I want it to be special. Can I drink wine on this stuff?

 

[neversickanymore]

No Problem, glad I can provide you with some insight and opinions.

Is there anything I can do to avoid this Day 6 crash? I have another 8 mg of suboxone if I need to stretch my taper to 21 days. No way I can finish all my work in the next 3 days but I have a helper coming in 4 days to help me.

Sure. People detoxing off suboxone generally do not experience much if any withdrawals untill day 2.5-3 after their last dose. So when you drop your dose on day three you will have a 2.5 to 3 day window untill the first results of this hit.

Its also not a guarantee you will feal much and you may feal nothing. But there is a chance of it being significant. No matter what happens day six will mark the begining of your victory.

Sometime after day six your going to start to feal rough. With the rapid tapper the expiring long half life's that will be coming in quickly with no end in sight, you could go from feeling pretty damn good to quite uncomfortable pretty fast. There is also a chance that you will still do great on 2mg, if this is the case then you could have around three days from the last 2mg dose. But its going to be hard to predict at that point as remeber it will take over 9 days for each dose to be pretty much eliminated from the body.

So I would hope for and expect the best, but be as prepared as possible for the worst.

Since this is going to be your first real run at a withdrawal like this I really suggest that you make an appointment and see a physician to discuss and procure the proper medication. You do not want to have to try and do this after you are already sick. Its so much better to have this on hand and not need then it is to be feeling pretty awful, have been up for five days strait, wishing the lord you had listened to NSA, Because the RLS symptoms suck bad and you find out your doctor is on vacation and you really want some medication to help deal with them, that and you have formed the strong opinion that the name restless legs needs to be scrapped immediately and replaced with something more descriptive and colorful.

I hope im not coming off real pushy. The thing with opiate detox is that no matter how far we make it.. if we don't make it all the way through and end and end up consuming opiates, its like the game "Sorry" we get shot right back to the begining and are forced to start over. Thats why im harping on the meds. I dont want you to put forth monumental effort and endure feeling pretty rough for a bunch of days, only to find yourself right back were you started and looking at all that shit ass ground you already scrambled through. This stuff isn't fun.. no sense in doing it more than once. If it were me I would be hoping for and expecting the best, but I would be as prepared, as prepared can get, for the worst.

This is a solid prediction for how this will go for the worst case scenario. If you do your taper as planned, you will probably start into the tunnel with mild symptoms coming on day 5.5 or 6. The strength of the symptoms will get stronger as you progress through the taper and detox. The symptoms will reach their strongest around ten days after your very last dose. If you choose to leave out the "skip" days in your taper, then it looks like you will probably be in acute withdrawal for about 21 days; this time period does not include the first six days of the taper.

No available medication cures withdrawals, but the right ones can have very positive effects on how we feal. Not positive enough to make us feal good, but much better than we would have been without them.

You mentioned you have some extra subs. During the detox if you have access to them you will almost assuredly take them. This also goes for your oxy stash as well. Having direct access to those while your detoxing will also cause you to crave and jones much harder. Its like smokers who are in the hospital.. they dont crave super hard when they are in as its not an option. Once they get out they often crave much harder as the possibility is there. You may want to remove the possibility during your detox.

You got this.. it wont be fun, but its has to be done at some point and time. Just make the descion that No Matter What your going to push through and remember what you may experience is only temporary and in a pretty short period of time you will be doing great and you will be free.

Edit: I do not think one or two glasses of wine consumed slowly would cause a problem. Throwing a bottle or two on top of subs and valium is not something I would do if I were you.

 

[WantToBeReborn]

Camerochick I've been where you are and now off all opiates, it can be done, it's tough but worth it.

 

[CamaroChick]

I've been considering extending my taper to use up the rest of the subs and maybe make it a little easier on myself but I'm worried about being on them too long and then having to detox from them as well. I'm hoping 2 weeks won't be much of a problem, as it would suck to be sick at Christmas. I'm not too worried about taking the Percocet I have at the moment because I want to be able to take the full bottle and show it to my doctor and be like look, I haven't taken these. It's silly I know but it's kind of a goal of mine. Anyhow today was my last day of 2mg. Tomorrow I drop down to 1 and am trying to decide if I should do 1.5 or 1. I think I'm reading too many threads on the subject, LOL. Everyone says 25% every time you cut down so I feel like I should do 1.5, then 1, but I would love to hear your thoughts as that would extend the taper a couple of days. So far I feel fantastic. Eating well, sleeping well the last two nights, plenty of energy.