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Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

You're obsessed with evil and the part of God that tolerates evil and suffering. How does this achieve anything? And how do you know it wasn't rather us who creared the evil and suffering with our God-given free will?

We must have asked for unlimited free will at some point. Including the freedom to create evil and suffering. More importantly, there must be something to be achieved by this.
 
Ninae said:
You're obsessed with evil and the part of God that tolerates evil and suffering. How does this achieve anything? And how do you know it wasn't rather us who creared the evil and suffering with our God-given free will?

We must have asked for unlimited free will at some point. Including the freedom to create evil and suffering. More importantly, there must be something to be achieved by this.
Click to expand...

Is that the same free will that God ignores every time he is shown as killing us, and do these pesky commandments, with the threat of hell, also annul free will?

Yes they do.

There is no doubt that man has free will but that has nothing to do with your God who does not allow free will.

He demands obedience and we must dance to his tune or he has promised a large consequence for man following his free will.

"there must be something to be achieved by this."

As above so below.

In my country, if we see a crime, sin to God, and we do as you say God does and we just tolerates that evil and suffering, we become subject to the same charge as the perpetrator if it is shown that we could have prevented it.

That law we see as a good law. Yoyr God would not live by our law. Do you think he should?

Who has the better law? Man who will prevent or help or your God who just watches the evil and does nothing.

Do you believe in the phrase, for evil to grow all good people need do is nothing and can we apply that to God?

Yes you can so you may as well face the fact that the Christian God is a vile and satanic God.

Regards
DL
 
You asked or volunteered to take part in this free-will experiement for your own reasons. Now all you can do (behind the veil) is sit back and complain about it. Either lay down your life or get on with it and get something out of it like you intended.
 
Ninae said:
You asked or volunteered to take part in this free-will experiement for your own reasons. Now all you can do (behind the veil) is sit back and complain about it. Either lay down your life or get on with it and get something out of it like you intended.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your garbage based on your full blown delusion.

Give any fact to back up what you said or be seen for what you are. A pack of lies and delusions.

Regards
DL
 
Did you mention religion (by definition a system based on belief) and fact in the same sentence? I think you're getting things mixed up a bit here, you're like a scientist attempting to go about the same way in convincing people of his religious beliefs. Or is all the religious dogma you believe in supposed to be accepted as fact by virtue of it being yours?

Try to get out of your ego and expand your vision a bit. There are many on this site with great ideas and insights different than yours. Everyone has something to contribute and brands like "Gnostic Christian" mean fuck all in the grand scheme of things.

In the end God is more interested in how much you could love your neighbour - a basic spiritual "fact" (one of the few ideas that can almost be reckoned as such) you should be aware of if you consider yourself someone spiritually enlightened. Oneness-consciousness is worth more than all the dogmatic religious knowledge in the world, it brings you at the front of the line.
 
A quote for you, GB:

"The Hopi said - white men were supposed to bring the circle (Gnosticism) not the cross (modern Christianity)."
 
I ran into some Gnostics in Melbourne years back and attended a couple of times. The ones I met were bigots.

I'm not so sure it was literalism though. I thought the Gnostics were the ancestors of people like the Cathars. Or am I thinking of the Coptics?
 
Journyman16 said:
I ran into some Gnostics in Melbourne years back and attended a couple of times. The ones I met were bigots.

I'm not so sure it was literalism though. I thought the Gnostics were the ancestors of people like the Cathars. Or am I thinking of the Coptics?
Click to expand...

Any religion that was not literalist and were free thinkers could have been called a Gnostic wing of that religion.

Gnostic Christians, had as many mystery schools as all the other Christian sects. The name was basically killed when Constantine and his new church decimated all free thinking cults. Free thinking was not allowed during the Dark Ages and Inquisition ushered in by Christianity.

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal astaught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethrento Jesus, in the esoteric sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, youwill begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to becomemore fully human.
 
"I AM doesnt mean "You Are" in sense you
are expressing.
And YOU didnt give GOD his name
HE gave himself his name.
For a purpose.
You are the created not the creator.
You were created in his image, not he was created in your image.
You still seem to be confused that you are God.
Dont know if you are trolling or justly delusional. I'm just warning you are on dangerous ground.

"I AM WHO (that) I AM"
I AM as I always have been
I AM as I am now
I Am as I always will be
Past, present, future
He transcends time.
His nature is always consistent.
God is what he is, does what he does, and will
do what he will do.
Simply he is "Isness"
Everlasting. The Alpha and Omega.
A to Z and everything in between.
Everything and Eternal.
You can bank on him.
You can build your foundation on him.
He will be your port in a storm if you will only
seek the port.
You have the knowledge of the port hardwired in you to help you find it.
With one hand let go of your will and with the other hand embrace his.
Its a lot easier that way.
Just a suggestion
 
'That' doesn't mean 'who' - the quote is, I am that I am' and the punctuation is meaningful. But the name of God Jahweh, is feminine. One of the basic heresy reasons for killing thousands.

The other was that Jesus was NOT the Messiah - John was. The origins of the Priory of Sion and the Cathars and even the Eastern Church group (can't recall their name and can't be bothered looking) were in the idea that John was the Messiah and Jesus a mere disciple who took up the reins. The first leader of the Priory was John the SECOND.

Until the Church of Paul got going, all salvation came from establishing a personal relationship with the Father. But the Romanisation of the church took women out of the equation and installed a go-between to be overlord above the faithful.

ANY religion which puts someone between you and awareness/salvation/enlightenment is a blasphemy. That's why the Buddha suggested that if you find him, kill him. The logic is, if you meet him, he has lost the path and you are well away from it, so remove him and follow your own path.
 
^
Really it translates
"I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE "
God is the "who" the "that", the what, the why, and the how
God is revealing "himself"
When God says I AM/was/will be its a definitive statement that he is/was/and will always be with you, and he will do what he says.
All things are possible
not bescause of you--but because of God.
You would have to be God to make a statement
All things are possible because of me.
You are not the one who makes it happen.
If you were you could say to someone else--
Look at me I became God by just doing me--
Doing what I do best--sinning.


Im not saying God is some old man with a beard. But if you agree we are all God than I would point out you are.
"He" is a spirit but he can project himself/herself
(no not myself) as an entity we can percieve.
And yes we see his nature in us, but
The biggest insult to God imho is to remove him from the equation of your life as he is factorless-
meaningless.
Sorry God, Ive reached enlightment
peace--cya
Glad I was able to overcome this whole sin thing on my own
Glad I didnt listen to that long haired hippie dude with burkinstocks you sent to remind me I needed a little guidance.
He was such a buzz kill.
Glad they listened to buddah before buddah was even a thought and killed his crazy ass.
 
Last edited:
methamaniac said:
"I AM doesnt mean "You Are" in sense you
are expressing.
And YOU didnt give GOD his name
HE gave himself his name.
For a purpose.
You are the created not the creator.
You were created in his image, not he was created in your image.
You still seem to be confused that you are God.
Dont know if you are trolling or justly delusional. I'm just warning you are on dangerous ground.

"I AM WHO (that) I AM"
I AM as I always have been
I AM as I am now
I Am as I always will be
Past, present, future
He transcends time.
His nature is always consistent.
God is what he is, does what he does, and will
do what he will do.
Simply he is "Isness"
Everlasting. The Alpha and Omega.
A to Z and everything in between.
Everything and Eternal.
You can bank on him.
You can build your foundation on him.
He will be your port in a storm if you will only
seek the port.
You have the knowledge of the port hardwired in you to help you find it.
With one hand let go of your will and with the other hand embrace his.
Its a lot easier that way.
Just a suggestion
Click to expand...

What kind of vile creator would create these people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_-nHw0_Fos&feature=player_embedded

Defend him before we all think of him as a real big prick.

Forget it. It is too late. You just go ahead and love that vile God.

Regards
DL
 
Journyman16 said:
'That' doesn't mean 'who' - the quote is, I am that I am' and the punctuation is meaningful. But the name of God Jahweh, is feminine. One of the basic heresy reasons for killing thousands.

The other was that Jesus was NOT the Messiah - John was. The origins of the Priory of Sion and the Cathars and even the Eastern Church group (can't recall their name and can't be bothered looking) were in the idea that John was the Messiah and Jesus a mere disciple who took up the reins. The first leader of the Priory was John the SECOND.

Until the Church of Paul got going, all salvation came from establishing a personal relationship with the Father. But the Romanisation of the church took women out of the equation and installed a go-between to be overlord above the faithful.

ANY religion which puts someone between you and awareness/salvation/enlightenment is a blasphemy. That's why the Buddha suggested that if you find him, kill him. The logic is, if you meet him, he has lost the path and you are well away from it, so remove him and follow your own path.
Click to expand...

That is the Gnostic Christian way as well. What I found through forcing my apotheosis I have set aside, raised the bar of my expectation and renewed my seeking.

Jesus said to seek God and never said he was God. Yet look at all the idol worshipping Christians who have found and kept their Godinabook idol and no longer follow what Jesus said.

Regards
DL
 
God is responsible for evil, evil exists,
therefore God doesnt exist.
Is this your argument?
Or is it God is evil?
Your argument fails nevertheless
Do you believe God even exists?
You cant have it both ways.
Or least at the sams time.
Or is it you are the most high?
If you are by your logic anything you do is your fault--who are you accusing?
Does satan exist? Do you exist?
If not God is just doing what God wants and he experiences what he experiences.

Satan is a creation of God. He was giving a much greater authority of free will than you or I.
He chose to abuse this free will.
This has consequesnces.
If I put bomb on a plane its going to blow up.
Not the fault of the plane maker.
Dont worry God will clean up the wreckage
and punish the bomb maker.
You dont have to believe this, just like you dont have to claim responsibility for your own actions. You're free to pick up where Satan left off.
But you may miss seeing the meek inheriting the earth. The blind being able to see. The lame being able to walk. The peacemakers experiencing ultimate peace. Those hungering for righteousness being filled.
The not guilty/innocent experincing the joy of
an acquittal.
Those with extremely painful birth defects recieving a glorified body and rejoicing at experiencing zero pain.
Like your video
I agree.....
Beauty is most definitely in the eye of the beholder.
 
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methamaniac said:
God is responsible for evil, evil exists,
therefore God doesnt exist.
Is this your argument?
.
Click to expand...

That may be what you want but it is not so stop preaching your immoral creed.

But since I cannot have a decent discussion with you I will simply inform and confuse your pathetic mind.

Can you help but do evil? I do not seehow. Do you?
And if you cannot, why wouldGod punish you?

Christians are always tryingto absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their freewill argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused ourfall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God'sculpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the abilityto choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose"A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Evewould even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed bya serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie inthe nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable fordeliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "freewill" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by naturethen, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some whowould not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for theGod that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tellyou that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree withChristians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’sresponsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that canonly be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has beenforcibly withheld.

Much has been written toexplain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate whatsome see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and areneither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims arecreated. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this iscalled mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court willnot find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of theact.

Evil then is only human tohuman when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all weever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see asgood as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as itcreates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing,doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some ofboth, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains whythere is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature,evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something toblame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanksfor being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, withoutevolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict betweennature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all mustdo what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to thiscompetition.

This link speak to theisticevolution.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfMTH#g/c/6F8036F680C1DBEB

If theistic evolution istrue, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not reallyany original sin.

Doing evil then is actuallyforced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is tocooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note thatwe default to good as it is better for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Can you help but do evil? Ido not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why wouldGod punish you?

Regards
DL
 
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