hydrocodone withdrawal and suboxone

[starling]

This is my first time posting a question on bluelight, so let me know if I'm in violation of any policies, wrong forum, etc…

I've been searching the forums for info about suboxone. Lets say, I've been taking between 20-60mg of hydrocodone a day for the last 6 months. Over the last couple weeks, I've reduced my use to 5-20mg/day. I haven't had any WD from reducing my dosage. Tonight I took a quarter of a generic suboxone instead of a hydro. Much more potent than expected, but I'm still glad I didn't take a hydro(because I'm trying to slow down to avoid deepening any dependency I may have developed). But now I'm concerned because I've been reading that suboxone can cause sudden and extreme WD symptoms. Obviously thats the opposite of what I'm going for. I think I'm blindly using something that might backfire on me(dumb, I know). I don't plan on taking a hydro tomorrow because I'm afraid of an adverse reaction with the sub in my system. I guess I don't understand how suboxone works, can anyone school me about this?

 

[mostly-human]

It acts as a partial MU receptor agonist; as it is not a full agonist it doesn't lead to such sever WD and it also has funny interactions with itself.. It's a little odd, where basically the more you take, the less high you get, because it blocks it's own agonist effects. Anyway - basically it has EXTREMELY high affinity to the MU receptor (that opiates hit) and as a result, it 'pushes' off the other drugs and as a result of that, if you have a habit and you take suboxone too soon after your last dose it can push your DOC off the receptor and cause you to go into precipitated WDs - which aren't pleasant.

The general rule of thumb is - to wait until you've gone into mild WDs before taking the sub, to avoid this happening. Basically - if you're on a long-acting opiate, like methadone, this may mean waiting more than 48-72hrs before dosing, with short-acting opiates, waiting a day is fine and usually you can take it a lot sooner than that.

Generally, if I've been abusing heroin daily, I can take sub about 6hours after my last dose and I won't have any problems.

It also acts as a 'blocker' - once again, because of its high affinity - so if you've taken suboxone in the last 24hours - you most likely won't feel any other opiates, even really strong ones like heroin.

 

[starling]

I really appreciate your response. Thats pretty much the info I was looking for. Its been about 30 hours since my last hydrocodone(generally I've been taking at least 5mg every 2-3 hours for several months, sometimes more sometimes less), and about 24 hrs since I took a suboxone, and I only took a quarter of a pill. If I take one tonight, I'll take even less, it was pretty effective. I'm feeling fine. No real WD symptoms. Mostly I've been in a fog all day from the suboxone 'hangover'. As per your advice, I'm not going to take any other opiates for a bit, to let the suboxone work its way through my system. I'd like to say I won't take any ever, but I'm just gonna take it day by day. Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate this site and everyone who contributes to it. I doubt I need to explain to anyone how this habit snuck up on me, but I'm really grateful to have the info to manage it now that I'm here.

 

[mostly-human]

Just to be clear, taking another opiate, such as the one you take, AFTER taking suboxone is fine, this CAN'T cause WD, it's just a waste because the suboxone blocks the effect and you won't feel a thing.

 

[wezface]

Since you seem to not have a terribly heavy opiate dependence and you're generally using short-acting opiates anyway (the hydrocodone), I would say you'd probably be safe taking the suboxone 12 to 20 hours after your last dose. As someone else said, though, a good rule of thumb is to wait until you have slight WD symptoms to do this.
You are sure you're using the suboxone correctly (sublingually, I assume)? And I imagine it's an 8mg pill so you're probably taking 2 mg which should be plenty for your usage...?

 

[starling]

Yes, its true, I don't have a super heavy dependence. I was taking oxycodone, then switched down to hydrocodone, just snorting or popping pills. In the past I've had WD that kept me up for several nights, restless leg, anxiety and cravings. And after a few days of that I started taking pills again. By now its been over 48 hrs since my last hydro. I took 1mg of suboxone last night, and 2mg the night before, and I'm feeling fine. I'm not sure if I'm just putting off the inevitable WD by taking the suboxone, or if I even need to worry about it. Its true, I'm not a super heavy opiate user, but I was getting up there. And now I'm trying to slow down to keep my habit in check. How long does the suboxone stay in the system? 1-3 days I think? I only have the one 8mg sub that I've been chipping away at(1mg gets me really high actually) But is using this one sub going to raise my tolerance to opiates? I'm trying to understand the nuances of what I've gotten myself into. Thanks for the feedback, you guys are really helpful.

 

[mostly-human]

I'm not sure if I'm just putting off the inevitable WD by taking the suboxone, or if I even need to worry about it.

It depends how long you take the sub for.. You *CAN* actually cheat the devil with a rapid sub taper off of a full-agonist..I've taken heroin every day for extended periods of time, to the point I'd experience fairly acute WDs for 3 days or so, but I've jumped straight from the H to suboxone, taken the suboxone for 2-3 days and basically got away with hardly feeling bad at all.

But if you stay on the suboxone long enough to get suboxone WDs.. well, they suck.. They're not overly severe, but the acute stage can last 1-2 weeks and post-acute can be months even.

 

[alec258]

I have been on suboxen for 3 years now .last year I stopped and started taking oxycodone. When I attempted to go back to sub I only waited 12 hours .I was taking 30 ml a day of oxy. Please do not make the same mistake I did . It was hell for 1 hour .I almost called 911 not sure what was going on , hard way to learn something . Precipitated withdrawl is HELL! Now a few weeks ago I had to hips replaced and started the oxy again for pain. Extreme pain . Today I took my first suboxen. I took a half just to test the water which really doesn't matter. I felt chills and sweating for 30 mins after that I took the other half , felt better .30 mins ago I took a whole one and I feel greattttttttt! Very important part is I waited exactly 24 hours . Scored a 12 on the cows scale and was taking 25 to 35 ml of oxycodone for four weeks daily. I hope this helps someone.please just wait it out . And you will feel fantastic