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Gabapentinoids The Lyrica (Pregabalin) Mega Thread v 2.0

gabapentin lyrica cross tolerance/substitution

Thanks for the reply Smoky.
I have a whole bunch of questions but I want to try to clean up my bluelight posts. I have been getting way too fucked up anymore and leaving sloppy ass posts.
So I have been taking neurontin for some time now (I generally stagger it when I feel like getting high in 600mg doses every 1 to 2 hours). This month instead of selling my adderall for other drugs, I kept it thinking I can take them here and there and ended up losing control and have been taking them daily. This month I also asked my dr for lyrica and he gave it to me. 150mg twice a day is the prescription, but my insurance didnt cover it. After about a week of being up nightly on adderall I found out that lyrica stops the comedown perfectly. What a mistake. Now not only am I hooked on adderall but also the most expensive damned thing ever (lyrica) to supplement my amphetamine habbit. I havent stopped taking the lyrica yet, so I dont know what the withdrawals will be like, I read about it a little bit on the pregabalin mega thread v1 but I cant read two megathreads. Im pretty much out of money and I have 4 adderall left. Everything I just typed is kind of irrelevant unless anyone wants to throw their advice in for me. But here is my question:
Is gabapentin cross tolerant with lyrica? I mean in two different ways:
1) Can gabapentin supplement the high of lyrica? example: if someone has been taking 750mgs of lyrica a day, and then all the sudden only have 300mg of lyrica, can gabapentin be taken with it to make up for the missing lyrica?
2) Can gabapentin substitute for lyrica in withdrawal in the medical sense of the term? example: temazepam (benzo) can substitute for barbiturates in withdrawal .
 
It seems like you are really going through it… I hope you have found some relief or had some question answered. I've been addicted to uppers and downers simultaneously before and it was living " hell "

I am behind on posts myself. :\

I have taken both together and have been okay as I was highly concerned with the drug Lyrica. I wasn't on as much as you nor on adderall, but I did do a switch to Gabapentin from Lyrica once and it wasn't fun, but was tolerable.. If I didn't have the Gabapentin I don't know how I would have coped. The Gapapentin was needed more often for me… It 'did' work for me - Although I'm not a doctor.

I do know that Lyrica was originally designed as a GABA analog, but it doesn’t actually perform in this way.
I read that it has no binding to any GABA receptor, and doesn’t affect GABA levels in any way. I am not sure about Neurontin. I guess the 'mechanism of action' might be very helpful to know how these drugs will effect one another, and if one can taper one while titrating the other.

L Glutamine in large doses helped me also… Taken with vitamin b6 for absorption. It slows things down, and crosses the blood brain barrier. There is some relational component with Gaba and Glutamine. :)
 
hoopy said:
if you have troube withdrawing from these two drugs, then lord help you if you ever get a opiate habbit.
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I've been through both so I'm in the position to compare.

Lyrica withdrawal (after real, long-term addiction on high doses) is basically like a long, heavy benzo withdrawal with a bit of opiate withdrawal thrown in.

Many find benzo withdrawals worse than opiate withdrawals, as do I, for different reasons.

So with Lyrica withdrawal being like a benzo withdrawal with some opiate withdrawal thrown in I'd say out of the 3, which are all horrific and I've experienced the full extent of, Lyrica is probably the one I least want to go through again.

I think it's rather those who haven't experienced the worst Lyrica withdrawal can do that are likely to say these things. They have maybe used it on and off in lower doses for a few months and never become really physically addicted and so are convinced their guess (because that's all it is) must be right.
 
Yes GP can act as a substitute for PG if you are tapering, and it will help you lower your doses of PG and be helpful during WDs. However I dont quite understnad your first question.

Take Mg supplements, if you are taking GP and also if you are coming off either. Also if you have only been taking PG for a while, try your best now to lower doses. The best way to not get hooked is lower doses, no moe than 250-300 twice a week max. Like Ninae said, its a bitch of a WD otherwise.
 
I came across something online about Gabapentin and a JNK gene, n some other stuff below.

"If Neurontin is used for a prolonged period of time the Neurontin will deplete the B vitamin biotin from the body. A deficiency of 'biotin' will cause numbness or tingling of the extremities, a reaction to loud noise or a reaction to bright light which could also include seizures. This is a biotin deficiency and not a medical problem. Put the right amount of biotin back in the body and these symptoms vanish. It is that simple."

" A metabolic disorder will take place with Neurontin usage in an area called nitric oxide and nitric oxide synthase. These are also known as NO/NOS. Too much NO will overwhelm NOS and then a substance called NMDA will go out of balance and this will lead to the misfiring of calcium. Here you have the rapid start of anxiety and the start of insomnia."

" Natural supplements can be used to regulate the JNK gene, anxiety and insomnia. The Neurontin creates a metabolic disorder bringing some enzymes too high and when the flow of the metabolic system becomes stuck or flowing too profusely the body can’t handle it and a cascading effect takes place. You may become anxious due to the calcium firing erratically or by the adrenals out of balance or a host of proteins being too abundant or even too few. "

I know biotin can be bought at Target or health food stores, I've seen it around.
 
lyrica is good stuff for those trying to get sleep and haven't taken it before lol. it's honestly the best thing i've found for tramadol withdrawal.
 
slimshady793 said:
Is lyrica something euphoric compared to benzodiazepines? The only GABA drugs I found euphoric was Etizolam and GBL (really intense euphoria) . Phenibut caused a bit of it too, it seems that drugs that work on GABA-B cause more euphoric than the GABA A.

I recently tried Miltown/Equanil/Meprobamate almost the same as Soma (which I never tried) because many said it would be the closed actually to qualuudes what you can still get, but there was nothing special about it at 800mg (2 pills)

Is Lyrica comparable to GBL in terms of Moodlift/Euphoria
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Your mileage may vary. In my experience, yes. It's been a few years since I last had any GBL but I remember the character of the high distinctly and I would say I prefer pregabalin over that (and over benzos too for that matter - any kind). I think what makes me say that is the absolute clarity of mind I experience on pregabalin - both benzos and GBL leave me with a somewhat muddy feeling, and while I find the anxiolysis of the three to be on the same level, I would choose pregabalin over the others any day.

I cannot even compare pregabalin to anything really, the effects I get are unique. If I had to describe what I feel on as little as 150 mg of pregabalin it would have to be what you are left with if you take the extreme serotonergic rush away from MDMA, but leave all the other desirable dimensions intact, and eliminate all the speedy adverse effects but leave the stimulation. Thoughts are lucid, sharp and clear, conversation flows unhindered, an extreme lightness of body, anxiolysis and stimulation at the same time, increased empathy towards others, slight enhancement of colors and textures, etc. It is like reality+ if you will - reality, just better. I take 150 mg for painting (I get about twice as good compared to when painting sober for some reason, and this persists even while looking at it sober - not just under the influence), working out, running errands I have been putting off, cleaning, socializing in a smaller setting instead of alcohol, etc.

I take 300 mg when I go out. Dancing is bliss. Thoughts get slightly unhinged in the same way as after a small amount of weed. The self-confidence of coke without turning into a prick, I can stride into a club without giving a shit about who might be staring at me, something I can have problems with normally. Hell, even breathing is enjoyable. I remember times where I have been dancing for hours on 300 mg and then just decided to run all the way home because moving is so euphoric. If I decide to go for a walk with my headphones on it feels like I can walk to the end of the world, no problem (I seriously hope pregabalin is considered doping even though you would really not expect it to increase endurance). The list goes on. At the end of the night, in spite of the stimulation, no problem sleeping whatsoever. Solid, refreshing sleep.

It takes some 2-3 hours before the effects plateau for me, which does not coincide with the plasma concentration, as peak plasma concentrations are reached after about an hour if I remember correctly. I can still feel the effects some 12 hours after intake and the plateau lasts for a good 6 hours at least. I do not seem intoxicated on pregabalin to the outside world, I have been in professional settings and around my very conservative family on both 150 and 300 mg numerous times without anyone raising an eyebrow. No wonder it is my favorite substance of all time, the high adapts to any situation, whether it is dancing the night away with my friends in a club or melding with the couch or giving a presentation in class. I am confident that I could feel great on 75 mg as well, but I have never come across anything smaller than 150 mg capsules and I am not about to take them apart. It also potentiates opioids very nicely.

Drawbacks? Of course. Pfizer still has a patent and will have it for years upon years for that matter, so prices even from the pharmacy are steep. Tolerance develops extremely quickly. To avoid this I always make sure to optimize my dosing: no more than 600 mg per week. Whether I choose to take 150 on Monday, 150 on Wednesday and 300 on Saturday, or 300 on Friday and 300 on Saturday, does not matter. If you are unfortunate enough to get yourself addicted then it is my understanding that you can expect withdrawals on the scale of benzo + opioid wd's simultaneously, as has also been stated in this thread previously. I have never experienced withdrawals myself, nor do I intend to. I am sure that going beyond 300 mg at once for me would just lead to more loss of motor control (I get slight signs of this at the end of the night if I have been drinking a beer or two in addition to the pregabalin, the fine motor movements of walking down stairs are made difficult for example). I first tried pregabalin in 2011 or so and I still get a high of the same intensity as when I first tried it.

Now, from this description, I can see why one would be excited to try it. My two best friends have the exact same reaction to pregabalin as I do and at the same doses. However, it seems that many find the high to be subtler than expected. I think this is a matter of what you are used to. All three of us use doses that vary from getting laughed at to being moderate (at most) in terms of other drugs, from weed to stims to opioids. I find it absolutely remarkable that calcium channel blockade has such profound effects.
 
Took 15mg of methadone around noon today and took 750mg of lyrica 45 mins ago. I weigh 120 pounds. What should I watch for concerning od? I have a high tolerance to pills, usually 80mgs of oxiperks × daily.
 
Don't think just cause you have a high tolerance to opiates that you will have one for lyrica. They are two very different drugs.

Don't take that much again if you feel bad check into a hospital immediately.
 
Hello. I have an extremely high tolerance to lyrica. I have fybromialgia and it never help for pain so i would take more. Thats when I realized it made me feel good. For most it takes a week break for tolerance to drop. For me it takes 2-3. I see people on here talking about their high tolerance and that they take up to 1.3 g (1300 mg). In a single dose, and I'm not trying to brag or anything, I can take 6 g (6000 mg). I get 300 mg pills twice a day so that's 60 a month. I go through them in a week, or less, if I can't manage to take a break and I go through hell for the rest of the month. And what's sad is it doesn't get me high any more. Originally I wasn't looking for the high but it helped me forget about the pain since the regular dose doesn't help. I don't know what the consequences of taking such a high does is or if there is any since its extremely hard or OD on. I also don't know how to stop or what else I can do to try and help the pain. Whether it's something cheap and easy to get for a good high to forget about my pain or whether there is something out there that may actually help my pain. If anyone could help please let me know because I also suffer from major depressive disorder so this is killing me, or may end up killing me is more or less the proper description. I don't want to talk to my GP because then Ill loose the lyrica. I just don't know of any other solutions. I've tried Kratom but it did nothing and I don't know where to get poppy seed tea (in Canada) and I've looked all over the net for help and can't find a thing. Anyone... help.... please....
 
Holy that's a lot of lyrica Your lucky pregabalin has a limited absorption rate. You must get terrible withdrawal symptoms that's no way to live where your sick more often then not. I would talk to your doctor tell him what's going on then get weaned off the stuff properly and find a medication that works for you because this isn't working for you.
If your doctor has any sense he wouldn't cut you off mabye try not to say you were chasing a high though. Tell him you were trying to relieve your pain by upping the dose many doctors don't even think lyrica gives anyone a "high" because their all told its a non narcotic and the commercials all make it out to be safe and non addictive. Yea right while they show a guy pain free gardening pretty flowers they list a seemingly endless list of side effects that sound horrible and forget to mention its an addictive drug.

Opiates may help take your mind off withdrawal and pain but they are different drugs so it won't do too much in the way of helping withdrawal from lyrica.

You need to be tapered down off this dose for one your wasting a hell of alot taking so much yoir body can only absorb so much before it just starts excreting the drug unchanged. The max dose of this stuff is generally considered to be 600mgs and your taking 10× more than is recommend by doctors. If you need to go higher than 600 then its time to start thinking of another drug with your doctor. Remind him what will happen if you stop this drug cold turkey he shouldn't cut you off after hearing your running out early he should want to work with you to get you better and happier.

All the best sorry I don't know how to get ahold of drugs to help you out but your best bet is to talk to your doctor that's what they are there for.
 
I appreciate the advice. Unfortunately I've tried all other non narcotic drugs for my pain, as far as my doctor has told me, Lryica is/was the last one she tried me on and for a while it actually worked. I build up tolerance to things very quickly. My doctor also doesn't believe in narcotics. It took me a year for her to give me 1 Endocet 3 times a day, and obviously after a time I started running out of that early as well. I get 90 of them and take 10 a day and I do know the ace. will kill my live but 10 a day is still under the max daily dosage. So I get relief for a whole 9 days out of the month. Also because my psychiatrist said that I have an addictive personality she wont give me anything else. My brother has the same thing I do and he is getting 2 Endocet 4 times a day and a long lasting 12 mg hydromorph at night and a 9 mg hydromorph in the morning. Like WTF?!? That's crap. And I cant switch to his doctor because he lives in a home and she only comes to visit once a week and from what I hear she gives them pretty much whatever they want just to shut them up. I don't think she is that way with her normal patients, if she has a family practice, and the only way I have to try and find her is get her name from my brother and look her up. But if I go to that new doctor and tell her the problem and that I need more than what I'm getting she will just think I'm a druggy and I'm sure she would contact my family doctor and I would loose all scripts anyway. I'm really at a loss for what to do. If I get her to wein me off of them there is no other solution to help so then I will have nothing at all. I would just go back to buying things off the street but the normal place where every one used to sell changed as they closed the establishment that was there and I don't know where they moved to so I'm screwed there to. Not to mention I'm on disability so I cant afford much any ways. Thank you so much for trying to help but for now I guess I'll just have to suffer.
 
Have you thought about methadone?? With your addictive personality I think that's your best bet and it does work better than hydrocodone on your type of pain. This is no way to live your taking narcotics like candy destroying your liver while taking lyrica the same way destroying your kidneys. It doesn't matter if your under the limit of apap your still doing major damage the limit of apap each day is 3000mgs and even that taken daily for extended periods has been known to cause damage its simply not meant to be taken daily. But that's the least of your worries the lyrica is going to kill your kidneys soon enough if your lifestyle doesn't make you nuts first. You need to taper that yourself if you can't ask for help get to a reasonable dose.

It doesn't sound like your doctor is against narcotics if he is prescribing you them of course some are more generous but he's trying to cover his ass you an addict plain and simple its too big a risk to give you more narcotics. Methadone doesn't raise tolerance as fast and lasts longer plus you can control apap intake.
I would look into that to stop this cycle I can't imagine living the way you are I wouldn't be able to for more than a month. How long has this been going on exactly?
 
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You might be in too deep and not even realize how you look to other "normal" people. I'm not saying that's the case but you probably seem more like a drug addict than a pain patient in their eyes: be it unfounded or not. I would take way more drugs if I didn't have a full time job and other responsibilities to fill my time. Some pain can be mental and some of the extra use/abuse could be due to boredom. Just some random food for thought.
 
This had been going on for over a year. I was actually on methadone a little while back. I'm trying not to take it as an insult that you say I'm an addict but everybody has different point of views. My point of view is I started with 1 three times a day and slowly worked my way up to 10 because my tolerance to pretty much all drugs, including the non narcotic ones such as anti-depressants, get high very quick. I've been on several anti depressants and anti-psychotics among other thing that I'm not sure what they are called for my many different disorders. Every single one either didn't work at all or worked for a very short period of time and all had to be increased up to the maximum amounts until the doctor had to switch me to a new one and it's the same cycle over and over again with all medications. I've seen social service workers, therapists, as well as a few different psychiatrists and it's always the same out come. With regards to my tolerance a good example is my insomnia. My doctor tried me on, little did I know all of, a lot of sleeping aids. Either they didn't work or they worked for the first night. I found out later at my psychiatrist that she did try me on all sleeping aids. He pulled out his big medical book and started going through sleeping aids asking if I've been on them and I answered yes to all of them. So he gave me Seroqil which I believe is an anti-psychotic as an off label sleeping aid. Now, at 100 mg, this works. Only for 1 - 2 nights max after that it stops. So I've gotten into the habit of using them only after not sleeping for 3 or 4 days, then I allow myself a good nights rest with they medication, then I go back to not sleeping. Like... is there some kind of disorder where you build tolerance to all and any kind of medication? This is really frustrating. I'm considering a pain management specialist but I don't think that will help. Oh... and sorry for jumping all over but my mind races too fast, back to the methadone... it's not accessible to me. It's all the way down town and I'm on disability. I cannot afford bus tickets to get there every day. I only used to go because when I was living with my ex she helped me get a bus pass so I could go. Again thank you for talking to me because I have no one in life pretty much to talk to about this. I do appreciate it.
 
I've had this pain for years. It's one of the reasons I quit working. So I'm not just taking the pain medications out of bordum I can assure you that.
 
Also if I ask my doctor to see a pain management specialist will I loose all my pain medications?
 
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