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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Heroin discussion v.20 -- You've come a long way baby

Has anyone who's ever overdosed and been given Narcan (naloxone) been given it intra-nasally?
We normally give it IV as I'm sure you know but was in a study day today at work where they were on about trailing new drugs and methods of administration and one of the things was intranasal naloxone and intranasal fentanyl. Don't know if they're going to be introduced or not (the fentanyl almost certainly won't be as its too expensive....although its used in Australia) but the narcan seems an excellent idea. Especially if the person is a long term IV user and has damaged veins.

Of on a tangent slightly but got called to an OD at the weekend where the girl didn'tmake it cos her friends fucked about for too long before dialing 999 trying "home remedies" for bringing her round...one of which was to send someone one for a £5 wrap of speed which the gave her (by IV) in the hope that the speed would somehow counteract the heroin. This was followed by cold water in tthe face, punching her, shouting at her and a whole load of other shite before finally calling us......by which time she had gone into cardiac arrest and despite being given narcan and de-fibbed she was a gonner.

Always dial 999 give the address as clear and concise as you can. Stay with them but if gou must fuck off then just leave (but leave tge door open and the person in plain view. I mean its better if you stay but wed rather you dial 999 then disappear than wait for ages getting rid of evidence/sorting out alibies/ trying to fix it yourself and delay ringing the ambulance.

Sorry for the long post but that call out has been bothering me more than most do.....she was only a young lass and it was such a waste. Life is so precious......please don't throw it away.

Peace and love.<3
 
as "those sorts' of addicts are pretty much on first name terms with police, it shocks me that theyput off ringing an ambo for so long. its not like any of them wluld be arrested and it doesnt take that long to pack up the kit and do a runner if theyre that para.

kind of on topic and i know this would never be advised, but bupe could be used like narcan, yes? in theory
 
steewith2ees said:
Cheers Scotch whats the story. Hows things in your world bud you well?
Click to expand...
The stories long winded and full of woe is me so I won't bore you or the board with it. Ive very on and off it at the moment, currently on..

Ive got a 250 ml of me%3((**(((((4:ďmmfffffŕmkkklllĺĺth and a few diazs so im planning short detox. Fingers crossed ay :)

Trust you're well,
 
smackydowners said:
as "those sorts' of addicts are pretty much on first name terms with police, it shocks me that theyput off ringing an ambo for so long. its not like any of them wluld be arrested and it doesnt take that long to pack up the kit and do a runner if theyre that para.

kind of on topic and i know this would never be advised, but bupe could be used like narcan, yes? in theory
Click to expand...

Hmm... I get your thinking about the bupe precipitating withdrawals but since bupe only antagonises the mu receptor and still causes respiratory depression via the kappa receptor (all be it not as much and with a ceiling) it probably wouldn't completely reverse the respiratory depression caused by an overdose of a full my receptor agonist such as heroin. In fact if a person ODs on a partial agonist/antagonist such as bupe or nalbuphine it can only be partially reversed by narcan for this very reason (narcan only antagonises the mu receptor)

It would be hugely risky. Actually I might look this up later to see if its even possible in theory but I wouldn't want to lay my life on it so to speak.
 
englandgz74 said:
Has anyone who's ever overdosed and been given Narcan (naloxone) been given it intra-nasally?
We normally give it IV as I'm sure you know but was in a study day today at work where they were on about trailing new drugs and methods of administration and one of the things was intranasal naloxone and intranasal fentanyl. Don't know if they're going to be introduced or not (the fentanyl almost certainly won't be as its too expensive....although its used in Australia) but the narcan seems an excellent idea. Especially if the person is a long term IV user and has damaged veins.

Of on a tangent slightly but got called to an OD at the weekend where the girl didn'tmake it cos her friends fucked about for too long before dialing 999 trying "home remedies" for bringing her round...one of which was to send someone one for a £5 wrap of speed which the gave her (by IV) in the hope that the speed would somehow counteract the heroin. This was followed by cold water in tthe face, punching her, shouting at her and a whole load of other shite before finally calling us......by which time she had gone into cardiac arrest and despite being given narcan and de-fibbed she was a gonner.

Always dial 999 give the address as clear and concise as you can. Stay with them but if gou must fuck off then just leave (but leave tge door open and the person in plain view. I mean its better if you stay but wed rather you dial 999 then disappear than wait for ages getting rid of evidence/sorting out alibies/ trying to fix it yourself and delay ringing the ambulance.

Sorry for the long post but that call out has been bothering me more than most do.....she was only a young lass and it was such a waste. Life is so precious......please don't throw it away.

Peace and love.<3
Click to expand...

going back to the intranasal narcan there are certain support groups in america (families of heroin addicts) who have managed to get funding so each family gets one of these to stick in the back of the cupboard, as they are so easy to use by non medical persons
. this documentary then goes back to the families in one of their sessions, waxing anecdotes that this approach has saved lives in their group already.

were we not talking about giving this product to prisoners on release back into the community, during a time that we know they are at a significantly increased risk of overdose? in practise theres no reason for one of these inhalers to be included in each needle pack the chemists dish out, or for the dsps to dish out to each registered service user who presents with opiate/opioid dependence

probably not to trendy spending thousands of pounds just on the lives of junkies tho
 
Aye..sadly it all comes down to cost in the end and the politicians don't see it as a "vote winner". IMO narcan kits should be made readily available to every opiate user. In fact in some parts of the US they are given to medicinal opiate users not just heroin users (especially if a benzo in prescribed concurrently).

Just been reading about whether bupe can reverse an od and while the jury is still out on straight bupe it seems that suboxone (bupe plus naloxone) can and has been used to reverse a heroin or several times.
 
Seen a few od's in my time, always called 999 - the weirdest one was this spanish girl who was in a flat with a few of us, she did a hit seemed fine, walking about anf talking then 5 mins later went down like a sack of spuds (all other od's Ive seen have been instant - twice in my own experience of od'ing) people stated slapping her and wanting to put her in the cold shower but then she went in to C.A luckily I knew a bit about cpr and told them to phone 999...anyway long story short I did about 10 mins of chest compressions and mouth to mouth (I asked for people to help but they thought they would be implicated in her murder if they did!!!wtf) and let me tell you 10 m of cpr is fucking exhausting and the only reason i was able was I hadn't had my hit yet. The whole time the para's were on the end of the phone asking me to take her pulse and check to see if she could breath unaided - they were really cool and kept me going. AS it turned out no police came, she was given a shot of narcan and the para's took over - she had a heart beat but was feint .. saw her a week later and got a huge hug found out she was only 17 and it had been her first hit and some dickhead had given her 1/2 a bag (.2 of proper gear bitd)
still you live and learn dont ya.......dont ya
 
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People dont realise how exhausting CPR is that's why they recommended tbat someone take over after a bit (if they are willing that is and IMO most people are not),

Props to you for doing it though as you undoubtedly saved her life.
 
Tried a bag off someone else today as my day off. Very pale brown powder and feeling utterly menched basking in euphoria off just a .1 gone so far on the foil. Lush gear indeed :D
 
Just out of interest, are you able to hold down a full time job whilst using? This isn't aimed at anyone in particular just in general. Its hard for me with just my painkiller use age (have to take bare minimum during the day and suffer the pain cos make me to drowsey then can take more after work but affects the quality of my sleep). And that's without worrying about paying for it or acquiring it or getting arrested or whatever. Must be a nightmare.

I've been thinking long and hard about trying to get off opiates all together And manage my pain other ways but how the fuck would I even Start off 180mg methadone pills?....even though its for a legit medical condition I'm probably the most heavily addicted person on here. Just goes to show that the word "legal" is just a matter of perspective.

While as I say I take bare minimum during the day so I'd doesn't affect my job I'm just fucking sick of it TBH. Sorry for the rant but as you can probably appreciate there not many I can discuss this with in the real world
 
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Thats kind of what I mean. If I don't have my pain killers I'll be rattling as well (been on them for 18 years) and I don't have to worry about availability or cost. I can'timagine how much of a chore it must be for you mate. You have my genuine sympathy. What u gonna do for work tomorrow if you're sick? No chance of getting on a script?

Plus at least my doc has me on long acting stuff like fentanyl patches, MST, MXL, Oxys or physeotones. Being on gear you're gonna need several hits a day and even a modest habit must take up nearly all your wages. Unless you're a lottery winner I don't see hhow's its sustainable. I mean I've got a canny job and have barely got 2 pennies to rub together...... I just can't even fathom finding a coupleof spare hundred a week for heroin.

My rseasons for wanting off are the constant tiredness regardless of how little I take plus the thought of knowing my life is effectively controlled by a little white pill and knowing what hell it is if I run out early of whatever. Plus I don't think they even do that much for my pain anymore. I'm basically taking them cos I'm dependent.... Don't get even remotely high anymore even when I allow myself a big dose on my day off...just sends me to sleep.

Sorry for winging fellas....just a bit down at the moment.
 
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Yeah iv had a habit over 20 years always worked ( apart from jail/ rehab time ) but always had methadone to fall back on , couldn't / wouldn't even think about working while rattling , and I'm lucky enough to not have a conventional job so can always fuck it off when needed. Although iv been a functional user last few years so haven't really needed to pull any strokes.
Luckily for my work mates lol.
As for sustaining a habit I earn half decent money , the mrs gets X amount each week without fail and I try and buy in bulk ( been hard recently ) but always end up steaming through it. Other than that I'll just make do.

Just wanted to say what great addition you been to the site Englandz , respect for the work you do man ❤️.
 
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Yeah i suppose of you've got some methadone to fall back on and you limit yourself to x amount a week then I can see how that's manageable....especially if you're earning decent money. We all work hard for our money and what you chosen to spend it on is no ones business but yourself at the end of the day..

Thanks strungout that's really kind of you mate. TBH I feel a bit bad for derailing this thread sometimes since its meant to be a heroin discussion and I don't really have much to contribute about heroin as such but can relate to some aspects what with being prescribed opiates for my back problem I suppose. The main reason I like this thread is that its a good bunch of people who seem to all get on without the silly dramas and pettiness of some of the other threads.
 
I have been in constant work since 2000 (when i got back on my script) its a private doc which makes life easy so once a month pick up and i get 5mg phy pills not yucky jollop and 21 valium. I have been through the horrors of working and not having enough to score then phoning in sick ..loosing job, repeat ad nauseum. But since i had to resort to smoking back in 2000 or so the fiending is no where near as bad i would shoot anything speed balls being my fave (but ultimately destroyed all my veins).
I ran up huge debts and i mean huge - had to tell the missis and since then my wages go in to a joint a/c which i have no access to - this is what shapes my using as the money i get now is a small inheritence which i get thro a trust so no big lumps and that allows me to use about 3 weeks out of 4.
I have money in the bank now but can wait till the w/e or next week when i have a couple of days off to score - i spose knowing i can means i dont fiend and also gets my tollerance lower. I always drop 5mg a day from 60mg till i decide to score but usually try and wait till i get down to 10mg.
+1 on what you do Enlandgz - i couldnt deal with blood n guts - in terms of habits the biggest i had (which was why i ended up with the debts ) was about 1/8 a day - smoked, and my lungs were fucked always full of phlegm. Now when i use its about 1/2 a day till its gone.
 
What are peeps picking up now? I have x3 choices average @20% good @30% excellent @45% - in terms of cost i get an 1/8th of the good for 110 and the excellent one is x2 for 15 (.15 each) the % are pretty much just my guess work but .4 of the good one will nod me out where as .2 of the other will do the same so maybe i dont have scooby - i always measure it by how much i need to get a gouch on.
Maybe i should get some ez test kits ( remember the ones that everyone said didnt exist lol)
 
Thanks mate...people always say that but really I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. In fact I left a really well paid job as a management accountant for the NHS to train as a paramedic. Starting at the bottom as a emergency medical technician which was a drop from nearly 40k down to 16k which at the time was a massive hit financially. Obviously some of it is blood and guts and horrible shit but most of the 999 calls are pretty mundane. Chest pain and breathing difficulties are the most common. Some of which turn out to be serious but most aren't. You always have to try and remember though that anyone who feels the need to phone an ambulance is most probably bricking it and even if it turns out to be nothing everyone has the right to use emergency services if they feel they need it.....after all its people like you and me who pay for it through our taxes so better safe than sorry. Of course there is always the odd one who is abusive or even violent towards ambulance crews but they are generally just fuckwits who don't know any better
 
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