Opioids A theory about opiates. do you agree?

[inmfh4488]

so when i started heroin i would noticed something. never particularly noticed it mixing some other opiate and oxy in the first 4 years of my adddiction (before gettin clean for a year and then trying heroin after using again after bring clean for around a year) maybe becuase i never tried to mix them until i had a fairly strong habbit in the first 4 years before getting clean. (sorry if this doesnt make sense) ask questions if you need me to explain please.

i have this theory that say if you take oxy. it will activate like 80 of the 250 total opiate recpetors in the brain( using random numbers and amounts as examples). if you take heroin you would activation say mayeb 90 or 100 of 250. now my theory is if you mix both heroin and oxy, you would end up with a total of maybe like 140 recpetors activated. oxy and heroin would activated around 70 precent of the same recpetors, but then the rest would be different and specific to that type of opiate. therefore you would activated more opiate receptors and achiever a better high cause you wouild have more activated then you would if you just took 1 type of opiate.

i noticed this when i first started to do heroin. after gettin clean and starting back on oxy i was only taking 10mgs to get pretty well set. when i first try heroin a 10$bag would get me high 2-3 times. and i notcied that if i took oxy and the heroin i would A be way higher of course, but more impoertantly i would B feel a way better/ different high then if i just took the equilcant dose of JUst oxy or just heroin. that is the part im gettin at

anyone else feel like they have noticed this?

 

[lifterpuller]

How high were you when you made this post?

Interesting idea at least

 

[Myxomatosis]

How high were you when you made this post?

Hahaha. Spent a good couple minutes reading/comprehending the original post before any replies & then refreshed to this response which gave me the giggles.

Of course I can attest to combinations of opiates/opioids having different effects, but I don't see any real effectiveness as to how well your premises support your conclusion. Being higher and having a different high from taking a different combination of drugs are not really sufficient grounds to delve into coming up with numbers/percentages of opiate receptors being activated. Although I can follow your train of thought, I just think you have to take more things into consideration first.

It's interesting though & I don't see why this wouldn't be possible...but then again I am admittedly far too unqualified to even attempt to give off the illusion that I know what I'm talking about in this instance. It also seems pretty likely to me that there is an already an explanation of what occurs internally when combining opiates that would give you a solid answer as to the validity of your theory.

You should go search up some studies & see if you can find anything to support your theory. I'd be interested in finding out. I'm not sure if threads like this are meant for OD though.

 

[inmfh4488]

How high were you when you made this post?

Interesting idea at least

haha i am pretty toasty

Hahaha. Spent a good couple minutes reading/comprehending the original post before any replies & then refreshed to this response which gave me the giggles.

Of course I can attest to combinations of opiates/opioids having different effects, but I don't see any real effectiveness as to how well your premises support your conclusion. Being higher and having a different high from taking a different combination of drugs are not really sufficient grounds to delve into coming up with numbers/percentages of opiate receptors being activated. Although I can follow your train of thought, I just think you have to take more things into consideration first.

It's interesting though & I don't see why this wouldn't be possible...but then again I am admittedly far too unqualified to even attempt to give off the illusion that I know what I'm talking about in this instance. It also seems pretty likely to me that there is an already an explanation of what occurs internally when combining opiates that would give you a solid answer as to the validity of your theory.

You should go search up some studies & see if you can find anything to support your theory. I'd be interested in finding out. I'm not sure if threads like this are meant for OD though.

yea i knew it was gonna give trouble when i was typeing it. atleast you could understand to the point where u understand and could see where i was coming from enough to say that you sort of personally agree or can see what i mean. it just seemed so pronounced back then when i was noticeing it. i even went as far as to sort of test it out by only taking oxy, then only heroin to see what was going on.

 

[rhun]

I think you're just feeling:
1) stronger effects because you're using twice the amount of drugs
2) the combination of two slightly different highs, oxycodone is usually more stimulating for me while heroin is more sedating
3) well, you're high

What you've come up with doesn't make sense on a scientific level. All opiates/opioids work on the same receptors as far as I know, though partial agonists hit the same receptors just a little differently than full agonists.

 

[Bliss26]

Interesting theory.
Probably not true, but interesting nonetheless.
You probably felt different/higher due to synergistic action between drugs.
Dividing your dose in half of two different opiates brings you higher than 100%.

 

[teological]

Wow, it is like you have read my mind. I also believe in this type of theory, and use it to lower tolerance, basically have for well over a year now.

Say my base opiate is oxycodone. I want to keep my tolerance at around 30mg, and say lately I have been doing 45mg. What I do is try get a different opiate, more the better. In my case I got Tramadol and Codeine. I then lowered my Oxycodone dose to 40mg and used 200mg Codeine and 200mg Tramadol on top. This got me very high, I then slowly cut down on the extra opiates (Codeine and Tramadol) until the 40mg of Oxycodone is on its own and it still gets me high. Then again, I move down to 35mg of Oxy and add the Codeine 200mg and Tramadol 200mg and again slowly cut out the extra opiates again until I am left with the 35mg oxy, and my theory is, the receptors for Oxycodone and hence my tolerance for it lower to that 35mg, so when I cut out the Codeine and Tramadol, I still, for some reason or another get high with my new 35mg oxy dose like it was 45mg....rofl it works, and has for ages.

 

[MartinFn]

Wow, it is like you have read my mind. I also believe in this type of theory, and use it to lower tolerance, basically have for well over a year now.

Say my base opiate is oxycodone. I want to keep my tolerance at around 30mg, and say lately I have been doing 45mg. What I do is try get a different opiate, more the better. In my case I got Tramadol and Codeine. I then lowered my Oxycodone dose to 40mg and used 200mg Codeine and 200mg Tramadol on top. This got me very high, I then slowly cut down on the extra opiates (Codeine and Tramadol) until the 40mg of Oxycodone is on its own and it still gets me high. Then again, I move down to 35mg of Oxy and add the Codeine 200mg and Tramadol 200mg and again slowly cut out the extra opiates again until I am left with the 35mg oxy, and my theory is, the receptors for Oxycodone and hence my tolerance for it lower to that 35mg, so when I cut out the Codeine and Tramadol, I still, for some reason or another get high with my new 35mg oxy dose like it was 45mg....rofl it works, and has for ages.

Really interesting..!!!
Hey bro, this is a nice piece of clever and efficient way of thinking..well done!!%). I wonder if it works with other opiods too..(fentanyl). I think i sould try it...
Yeah, why not...



MartinFn

 

[rhun]

Idk guys...have either if you took some time to research opioids and how they affect the receptors? I would suggest doing this first.

Tramadol is not an opioid though it has some opioid properties. So using it would reduce tolerance. Otherwise, tolerance is generally the same regardless if what opioid you use.

Though some people respond differently to different opioids... I think this is mainly due to which alkaloid from the poppy plant they were derived from (morphine, codeine, thebaine). Morphine derivatives tend to be more sedating, for example. I believe thebaine is commonly used to create synthetic opioids.

 

[downerhead]

Yeah teological,that sounds like a good way to combine your opiates and keep tolerance to opiate A down to a reasonable level by using opiate B to compensate.I wish I could do that with my oxy but I live way out in the middle of nowhere and I'm subject to piss tests and pill counts by my doctor.They actually send evey other samplte to a lab so they can make sure that you're only using the drugs you are precribed.About the OPs's theory(and this is just based on my own theory,I'm not a doctor or chemist)I think the differences he/she noticed are just from the combination of 2 different opiates giving slightly different feelings which combine nicely and give a nice synergistic effect.I've noticed this with benzos and opiates both.Different benzos and different opiates each have their own subtle little nuances to how they feel and combining 2 different meds in the same class sort of gives you the best of both.I think it has more to do with their affinity for the receptors rather than how many receptors are activated.That,and the fact that each has a different feel.I've noticed this with heroin that's been mixed with morphine or fentanyl vs regular heroin on it's own.Also with the combination of Xanax and Valium together.It's a better feeling than either drug alone.I think this has been recognized by the pharmaceutical industry as well.As an example I point to the barbituate combination Tuinal.It was 2 different barbs in the same capsul(I think secobarbital and nembutal but can't remember off the top of my head).I believe this was a product designed to give the individual qualities of both drugs in a single pill.I wish they would do this with benzos.I think a combination pill that contained both alprazolam and diazapam would be a great product.Same with a combination pill containing both opiates and benzos.That would be a real winner for someone like myself that suffers from both chronic pain and panic disorder.If they combined my alprazolam and oxycodone in a single pill,say 2mg of alprazolam mixed with 10mg of oxy(just using my own prescribed dosages as an example here)it would be most conveniant.I could take a single pill 4 times a day and save money over having to get 2 different scripts filled.Especially for those of us with no insurance who pay every cent out of pocket it would be a very welcome product.Okay,I'll wrap this up since now I'm starting to ramble and dream.I still stand by my theories though.Carry on.

 

[inmfh4488]

Yeah teological,that sounds like a good way to combine your opiates and keep tolerance to opiate A down to a reasonable level by using opiate B to compensate.I wish I could do that with my oxy but I live way out in the middle of nowhere and I'm subject to piss tests and pill counts by my doctor.They actually send evey other samplte to a lab so they can make sure that you're only using the drugs you are precribed.About the OPs's theory(and this is just based on my own theory,I'm not a doctor or chemist)I think the differences he/she noticed are just from the combination of 2 different opiates giving slightly different feelings which combine nicely and give a nice synergistic effect.I've noticed this with benzos and opiates both.Different benzos and different opiates each have their own subtle little nuances to how they feel and combining 2 different meds in the same class sort of gives you the best of both.I think it has more to do with their affinity for the receptors rather than how many receptors are activated.That,and the fact that each has a different feel.I've noticed this with heroin that's been mixed with morphine or fentanyl vs regular heroin on it's own.Also with the combination of Xanax and Valium together.It's a better feeling than either drug alone.I think this has been recognized by the pharmaceutical industry as well.As an example I point to the barbituate combination Tuinal.It was 2 different barbs in the same capsul(I think secobarbital and nembutal but can't remember off the top of my head).I believe this was a product designed to give the individual qualities of both drugs in a single pill.I wish they would do this with benzos.I think a combination pill that contained both alprazolam and diazapam would be a great product.Same with a combination pill containing both opiates and benzos.That would be a real winner for someone like myself that suffers from both chronic pain and panic disorder.If they combined my alprazolam and oxycodone in a single pill,say 2mg of alprazolam mixed with 10mg of oxy(just using my own prescribed dosages as an example here)it would be most conveniant.I could take a single pill 4 times a day and save money over having to get 2 different scripts filled.Especially for those of us with no insurance who pay every cent out of pocket it would be a very welcome product.Okay,I'll wrap this up since now I'm starting to ramble and dream.I still stand by my theories though.Carry on.

gonna comment on the rest in the bit via a edit to this post(on mobil rightnow), but that 2mgxanax/10mgoxy pill idea would be a higherschool killer man. that is dangerous as fuck.

 

[Treefa]

When I combine say, at least 2 different opiates/oids I feel 5X better than taking either alone.

Closest as I can get to this mythical "high" you all speak off..

 

[downerhead]

gonna comment on the rest in the bit via a edit to this post(on mobil rightnow), but that 2mgxanax/10mgoxy pill idea would be a higherschool killer man. that is dangerous as fuck.

Oh no doubt it could be dangerous for people without the tolerance to handle it but so can lots of RX medication.Just like I wouldn't recommend someone with little or no opiate tolerance put on a fentanyl patch.This is where personal responsiblity and knowing one's limits comes into play.Ultimately it's up to an individual user to know what they can and cannot handle and dose accordingly.I sort of compare it to McDonalds wanting to remove the toys from happy meals because so many kids are fat slobs or people insisting television networks censor the fuck out of eveything lest people have to actually do some damn parenting.It's usually the idiots who ruin things for the rest of us.Drugs are,in a way,akin to fireworks and firearms.They are dangerous as hell for stupid people who don't bother to learn their proper use and safe handling practices.That doesn't mean everyone should be made to do without because idiots outnumber people with common sense.I totally agree that a combination product such as the one I mentioned can be too much for a teeneger or even adult who is not used to that level of medication and who doesn't have a need for a dose like that.That's why medications come in different strengths and I really see no difference between that and some 13 year old kid who has never taken an opiate or benzo deciding to start off by popping a couple of OC 80s.A medication that can be a real blessing for those who truly need it's strength can be a body bag for someone wanting to play with fire.It's not my or anyone else's responsibility to hold every recreational drug user's hand and be their daddy.All potentially dangerous things should be treated with respect.I do see a place for such a product in medicine and believe that anyone who decides to dabble in a medication that is not prescribed for them should take the responsibility to learn about what they are taking into their bodies before jumping in with both feet.

 

[rhun]

^ this would never happen. First, because there's just not enough market for it. And second, because no doctor is going to write a script for an even more dangerous mix of drugs... benzos and opioids are already abuses enough on their own. Not to mention the inconvenience, what if the doctor wanted to script 20mg oxycodone and 2mg lorazepam but the pill is 15mg oxycodone and 1mg lorazepam? Takes away the ability for doctors to prescribe really specific amounts and its really not that inconvenient to fill separate scripts at the pharmacy. If insurance doesn't cover it there's prescription discount plans and generics. A pill like what you're describing wouldn't be available generic for years and there would no doubt be bad publicity.

 

[Professer]

write a script for a 5mg oxy pill to go with it?

I mean is much known about sub receptors of the mu-opiate receptor? There's also all the other opiate receptors there, Like different benzos have different effects (Anxiolytic vs muscle relaxant) depending on certain affinities to the GABA_A benzo subsreceptors right? Maybe its something like that.

But all in all, when it comes down to it, the more drugsyou take the higher you get. Stay far up there niggas.

 

[tacodude]

More drugs = more effect! Genius

I've already figured this. A great pm program in my opinion is using an mu selectively active opiate at night and daytime use a kappa selective active when pain becomes unbearable. Tolerance shouldn't build if done properly, but dependency and wd symptom will.

Sigh I do miss railing oxycodon and oxymorphone together....

 

[teological]

Really interesting..!!!
Hey bro, this is a nice piece of clever and efficient way of thinking..well done!!%). I wonder if it works with other opiods too..(fentanyl). I think i sould try it...
Yeah, why not...



MartinFn

Thanks man ...the extended version of what I do is this; I keep on doing that method until I hit below my target dose. So say my target is 30mg of oxy on its own, I keep on using the extra different opiates method until I am left with 20mg-25mg of oxy on its own. Once 20mg gets me high (not wow I am fucked high, but high nonetheless), I take one day off and then bang it back up to my 30mg intended target and it works a treat. I then just use that 30mg until it starts to feel like my tolerance is growing, rinse and repeat. lol I have no idea how this works since like other posters have said, it shouldn't really matter what opiate as long as it is hitting the same mu-receptors.

 

[rhun]

write a script for a 5mg oxy pill to go with it

Then that would defeat the whole point of the combined pill entirely. Easier to just write separate scripts.

 

[downerhead]

^ this would never happen. First, because there's just not enough market for it. And second, because no doctor is going to write a script for an even more dangerous mix of drugs... benzos and opioids are already abuses enough on their own. Not to mention the inconvenience, what if the doctor wanted to script 20mg oxycodone and 2mg lorazepam but the pill is 15mg oxycodone and 1mg lorazepam? Takes away the ability for doctors to prescribe really specific amounts and its really not that inconvenient to fill separate scripts at the pharmacy. If insurance doesn't cover it there's prescription discount plans and generics. A pill like what you're describing wouldn't be available generic for years and there would no doubt be bad publicity.

Well no shit,of course they'll never make it.I was merely pointing out that it could potentially be useful for certain situations and specific cases.Come on,let me dream.I am fully aware that there wouldn't be enough of those specific,individual cases for a phamaceutical company to sink tons of money into R&D for a drug that just wouldn't be prescribed enough to justify the financial outlay to put it on the market and I agree it would probably get tons of bad press but so have a lot of drugs like Oxycontin (blown way out of proportion IMO) and even Xanax for that matter (also blown way out of proportion).I still think it's a good idea though,especially for people like myself with absolutely no insurance whatsoever who spends every penny out of pocket.Medical bills and prescription costs can really eat you alive,especially if you are a multiple felon who no one wants to hire and your various medical and psychological issues keep you from being able to hold down or even perform a great many of the few jobs you can get.It can be really tough for someone in that situation and all I was saying is that a single prescription can make it significantly easier on someone in a situation like that.I know I can't be the only person on the face of the earth who would find great benefits and value in similar combo products in different strengths and combinations of medications.In a way,I kind of liken it to the combination product of Demerol and Phenergren (can't remember the brand name) for people who have severe pain accompanied by nausea.It's another example of a product made for a specific set of symptoms.