SSRI/SNRI meds. The greatest scam big pharm has ever pulled?

[hunter1]

This has been a topic of conversation within my circle for a while.

I've transferred most of this post from notes. Almost every point made here could be its own legitimate thread.

SSRI/SNRI meds. The greatest scam big pharm has ever pulled?

Can I preface this thread by saying if you yourself or someone you know well is taking these meds and they are really tangibly helping them then I'm really glad they are and the following post is not concerned with those who do respond well to them. It's to the rest of us...

Mods feel free to move this thread to mental health ect if you feel it's it's more natural home.

I'm starting this thread because I want to voice my own personal opinions/experiences regarding SSRI/SNRI medications and want to open discussion up regarding a few key questions that I'm genuinely interested in others answers to.

I'm Trying to keep this as short as possible so please excuse bad grammar ect...

-These drugs are excessively prescribed.
- these are powerful fucking drugs. They're not Panadols.
- the science supporting their efficiency is dodgy at best
- I personally believe that GP's should not be able to prescribe them.
****If they are then only one or 2, say Prozac and Zolft.
I believe there should be mandatory Referal to a psychiatrist for at least a single session to review and asses the patient before continuation of treatment with said already prescribed medication.

- question for people. How many people either yourself or people you know personally have had successful medium to long term tangible positive outcomes with these meds?
- there's way to many of the same(ish) drugs out there just so each big pharm company can get a slice of the pie. Seriously, yes it can often be a matter of trialling a few variations of the same drug to find a good fit but the markets overly saturated.
- the amount of off label prescribing of these drugs from anything from menopause to appetite suppression/ control yada yada often by GP's and other medical 'professionals' that may specialize in other fields but are not phyciatrists.
- they are fucking addictive (mostly). No you don't get high by taking more but the widthdrawel from prolonged even low doseage for a period of time can be absolutely horrific at worst and extremely uncomfortable at best. Anything that you have to titrate you dosage over months to stop in order to avoid horrendous discontinuation syndrome and that has its own quit term 'discontinuation syndrome' to explain speaks for itself.
- Prozac may have been a breakthrough drug for the condition in 1990. Now, almost 25 years later and 10+ SSRI/ another 5+ SNRIs which are basically just working off the same theme and tweaking the formula ever so slightly... Nothing new is even on the horizon. I'd argue that this group of drugs and how effective they have been sold to us as a % chance of efective treatment in a population has been neglegibly overblown, trading on the relationship between patient and GP...
- patent extenders ( Effexor to Prestique) ( celexa - lexapro)
- aside, benzos & opioids , what other drug group has so many packaged 'name brand' products?

 

[Halif]

Mr Hunter,

I agree with many things you posted. The key one being that anti-depressant medications are overprescribed. There's a lot of hate for SSRIs/SNRIs and I believe it's a great shame because they are literally a life saver for some. However, the term itself 'depressed/depression' is way overused and misunderstood, IMO.

As someone who has lived life like as a Rubik's Cube - twisting and turning to try and make it "right" - I can say that depression appears to be a genetically encoded condition. As much as someone is born black or white, someone either has or does not have that curse. It appears as a tip of the scales so that everything is forever just out of reach... so that no matter what you do it'll never be right.

The question needs to be asked: What have I done to better myself and improve my situation? Have I truly done everything possible in my power?

Defeat comes when one believes that they've done all possible yet they are still beaten down by unseen forces. For those people any time bought by any necessary means is valuable. For the others... take a chance on life.

 

[hunter1]

Mr Hunter,

I agree with many things you posted. The key one being that anti-depressant medications are overprescribed. There's a lot of hate for SSRIs/SNRIs and I believe it's a great shame because they are literally a life saver for some. However, the term itself 'depressed/depression' is way overused and misunderstood, IMO.

As someone who has lived life like as a Rubik's Cube - twisting and turning to try and make it "right" - I can say that depression appears to be a genetically encoded condition. As much as someone is born black or white, someone either has or does not have that curse. It appears as a tip of the scales so that everything is forever just out of reach... so that no matter what you do it'll never be right.

The question needs to be asked: What have I done to better myself and improve my situation? Have I truly done everything possible in my power?

Defeat comes when one believes that they've done all possible yet they are still beaten down by unseen forces. For those people any time bought by any necessary means is valuable. For the others... take a chance on life.

^Cheers man.
I'm definetely in the boat of having to find my own way through this depression organically.

 

[spacejunk]

OP, this thread might be of interest. Counter-argument and all.

Mr Halif, you are a very excellent fellow; I hope you are doing alright.

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

Nearly all the ssri and ssnri's i have been on and i have read about including viewing the minds of people on antidressents from 3rd person through judgement of conversation (yes i know sounds rude of me to analyze that doesn't it) but yeah they pretty much in my eyes have no medicinal purpose what so ever and are nothing more than the works of the DSM doing it's thing in misinforming people into what an illness is characterised by what the percieve and illness to be in there own minds, which apparently are acrredited and much more with it, forget the poor people perscribed these useless compounds and medications that are supposedly meant for chemical imbalances but correct me if im wrong, there is not one test theory or method with credibility or scientific approach regarding what a chemical balance is characterised by or what it even is. We could all rant on about this and that using our altered perceptions and differences of opinions between specialists and psychs and what not but at the end of the day the patient knows best.

I will stop there for now as i have intent to destroy and i don't need the unwanted attention from those concerned with my strong freedom of speech regarding modern medicine which indeed is mainly bullshit im sorry i have to say lol.

But yeah your better of without them, good diet, raw vegtables, excercise, atleast one friend you can depend on to share you problems regarding depression and whatever makeshift illness they have designed for one another and most importantly, Food,Love,Shelter and HAPPINESS

Peace

 

[chugs]

My family have all been on anti-depressants of all ilks. In my brother's case Mirtazapine has helped him massively. He is a far better space. Meanwhile my sister on prozac and now something new leads a functional and fairly happy life. Not sure what Dad is on these days but in any case the point these drugs aren't always bad. I don't think they were feed the line that there was an imbalance but at the end of the day they all are doing pretty good or improving quite a bit.

I think though it helps to have someone to talk to. If GP's are prescribing these drugs without providing significant counselling then that is terrible. How is that even possible in Australia?

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

Yeah i hear you.

My belief is they are designed with a mechanism of action to just generally increase the reuptake of certain sites but that's only temporarily fixing the problem. It seems to be that they are doing the old "problem - action - soloution" (c) David icke to treat people. The best way to beat depression is to reflect over all the things you are good at and recognize your self worth which everyone has the divine free will given universal right to feel no matter how they are taking their depression whether it be chaos or stabilized. As i said having a good friend that understands at the very least is a great help and despite how low you might be feeling don't be affraid to tell someone about your problems, If they are worthwhile people they won't judge you and will give you their ears for the time required to express yourself. At the end of the day it makes you feel better in the long run and is a great way for combating depression naturally. Don't let what others think get the better of you. Even if you feel you have no friends to talk to just remember that those of you with depression have inner self worth and are worth of x ammount of things that maybe you cant see but other people can.

Life's great learn to enjoy it by empowering your mind and forgetting about what main stream society expects of those of us who are somewhat seen as more unique or left of center. To all of you who suffer depression please try natural ways such as some of the ways i mentioned or anything else you can think of that could be a good starting point to your recovery. Stuff like that

 

[hunter1]

In the 90's and early 2000's Prozac and Zoloft were used by GP's as a first line antidepresant. I don't completely disagree with this in certain cases.
My problem is more related to 3 years later my local trusty GP was suggesting (side)Effexor straight up. He said that this was what 'we' used now...
SNRI meds, especially that vicious little sucker are much stronger drugs and I don't believe a GP should be prescribing them.
Example. My auntie is going through menapause, nothing major... Her (very stupid) GP, I've seen her, prescribed her 150mg Effexor.
My auntie has taken this for 4 years now and had no idea what she was getting into. If she misses a dose she gets loopy and faints

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

In the 90's and early 2000's Prozac and Zoloft were used by GP's as a first line antidepresant. I don't completely disagree with this in certain cases.
My problem is more related to 3 years later my local trusty GP was suggesting (side)Effexor straight up. He said that this was what 'we' used now...
SNRI meds, especially that vicious little sucker are much stronger drugs and I don't believe a GP should be prescribing them.
Example. My auntie is going through menapause, nothing major... Her (very stupid) GP, I've seen her, prescribed her 150mg Effexor.
My auntie has taken this for 4 years now and had no idea what she was getting into. If she misses a dose she gets loopy and faints

Yeah that's the thing with antidepressants they don't seem to be too cross tolerant with all the differences between each anti depressant its hard to know what's a good alternative option for treatment that won't interact. The side effects aren't side effects they are more so the effects.

 

[Crankinit]

I've tried an SSRI three times (Fluvoxamine). The first two times I started at 25mg (half dose) and gave up after 3 days because of the horrible headaches and stomach pain. The third time I started at 12.5mg with the plan of going up by that amount each week until I reached 50mg. First week I got the headaches and stomach pain (like having my skull in a vice and a chunk of lead in the pit of my stomach) for 3 days, but I sucked it up the best I could. I also found I'd get a few hours each day where I'd feel kind of spun out and scattered, like coming down off bad pills. Went up to 25mg after a week and the head/stomach pain came back worse than before, as did the spun out feeling, they mostly subsided after a few days, except the headaches/stomach pain would come back about 20 - 22 hours after my last dose, so I'd get a short bout of them every night.

After another week I tried to go up another 12.5mg to 37.5mg, but the head/stomach pain was so bad I couldn't cope, even with my suboxone and fairly prodigious benzo intake at the time, and after 2 days I gave up and dropped back to 25mg. Over the next week I started feeling some effects - namely in the form of sleeping 14 hours a day and a completely flat emotional state, the only things I could really feel were a mild sense of despair. They did nothing to deal with the anxiety I was taking them for.

I've taken a lot of dodgy street drugs and RC's in my time, but never anything that has felt so toxic to my mind and body (even seroquel, and I've made my opinion of that known ). Nevertheless, my doctor wanted me to keep trying, so I tried to go up to 37.5mg again at the beginning of the fourth week, and the symptoms got worse. I also started binging on sweet junk food of the kind I normally avoid (icecream, which I normally eat maybe once or twice a year when offered for desert, and liquorice, which I've literally eaten on maybe 3 occasions in my life before this) and my nicotine intake went from a pack a fortnight to a pack every 2 - 3 days. I assume the sweet tooth and the heavier smoking was an attempt to induce some kind of emotional reaction or sensation, because I still felt completely flat. After the fourth week I gave up, dropped down to 12.5mg for a few days then just stopped. Took me another week and a half to go back to feeling normal again.

In short, it was probably one of the shittier months of my life. Although at least I gave it a proper go and know it doesn't work for me.

In fact I've never known anyone who's actually benefited from them in the long term. One friend took them and they seemed to worked amazingly at first, turned his life around for 3 months, then stopped working entirely and left him even worse off than he started. A family member has been cycling through them for about a decade and doesn't seem to have benefited to any real degree, other than a manic episode he went through at one stage.

I know there are supposed to be people out there for whom they actually work, but I've yet to meet one. My opinion is that they're a scam and any benefit is purely placebo, and reading up a bit on the history of their development only strengthened this opinion.

 

[zzz101]

Mr Hunter,

I agree with many things you posted. The key one being that anti-depressant medications are overprescribed. There's a lot of hate for SSRIs/SNRIs and I believe it's a great shame because they are literally a life saver for some. However, the term itself 'depressed/depression' is way overused and misunderstood, IMO.

As someone who has lived life like as a Rubik's Cube - twisting and turning to try and make it "right" - I can say that depression appears to be a genetically encoded condition. As much as someone is born black or white, someone either has or does not have that curse. It appears as a tip of the scales so that everything is forever just out of reach... so that no matter what you do it'll never be right.

The question needs to be asked: What have I done to better myself and improve my situation? Have I truly done everything possible in my power?

Defeat comes when one believes that they've done all possible yet they are still beaten down by unseen forces. For those people any time bought by any necessary means is valuable. For the others... take a chance on life.

thanks Halif, you always give great help to me

 

[Halif]

You're welcome. Feedback like that makes me continue posting.

In terms of the thread topic: I'm going to switch up SSRIs again. I've tried five so far and honestly only one has worked for me. If you're a 'lifer' then you gotta keep trying no matter what. The bottom line is simple... only two choices: keep going or not. Before I stop I'm going to try everything and anything.

 

[ashstorm]

I've battled with depression for years, when I finally ended up hitting rock bottom with super bad anxiety I went and saw my GP at the time and she put me straight on aropax/paxil...

Worst thing ever. I ended up with rapid cycling mania, and getting off the stuff was the hardest thing I'd ever done.

Fast forward three years later and I was put on pristiq for depression. No psych visit on nothing...

The pristiq didn't flare my my mania but I put on a decent amount of weight and stared getting really angry as well as losing my sex drive completely...

Went and saw my new GP who I have a good rapport with, explained what was going on and she offered a few alternatives including Zyban off label and valdoxan which is a another new one which is off pbs.

She's probably the only GP that I would trust to prescribe me any meds.

Most GPs I wouldn't trust to prescribe me anything

 

[Christ!]

These drugs have an interesting history. Would be great to get some more studies done that independent of drug companies, I've read a few that show these drugs being little better than placebo. Can't argue against those that it really helps though.

I've been on effexor before. It did help my depression in some way...by basically making me care less - but this is a catch 22 because it can remove the discomfort that helps motivate you to change and move forward. It basically smoothed out the peaks of emotion for me, in the end getting off it was far more effective than while I was on it...was way more motivated and life seemed much more enjoyable.

Halif hit the nail on the head. Depression is too easily diagnosed and medicated...people want a quick fix but it can end up leading to more issues. Something like regular exercise and seeing a counsellor should be treatment 101.

 

[Crankinit]

Something like regular exercise and seeing a counsellor should be treatment 101.

I've always wondered what society would be like if everyone spent half an hour a day exercising, half an hour a day meditating and went to weekly therapy, just as a matter of course.

 

[drancer]

Nah, that's too hard. Most wouldn't have the time or the inclination to do this. What, it takes effort? Screw that, give me a happy pill instead lol.

I can say this with 6 years of on/off depression under my belt, and the hopelessness and anxiety that comes with it made me say these exact same words to my psych.. 'I can't deal with what you're asking me to do. I need some relief now'.
That said, Effexor did nothing for me because I didn't take it. I had read something about dangerous interactions with MDMA (and I was a ravehead then) so I refused. So the kind psych gave me Wellbutrin instead, which was awesome apart from the fact it turned me into an unpredictable manic lunatic.

As of this week I have decided to commit to CBT, mindfulness techniques, and mediation. I can see the benefits already. Some days were awful, like when you apply a technique and it fails so you chastize yourself to tears before catching onto whats happening.. that vicious cycle! And sleep has been minimal at best because I am detoxifying at the same time.

Exercise is worth it's weight in gold. It's what's motivated me to WANT to defeat depression in the first place. If I can be mentally tough at the gym and see results I never knew I was capable of, then how about applying those same principles in my other areas of life? That was my eureka moment.

 

[werk2play]

I'm taking 150mg of Zoloft each evening. It has been extremely helpful, although I still have to make an effort and make some personal adjustments which is more than manageable. I am very thankful as Zoloft has stripped my depression off and hopefully it will be just a matter of time before I am to reach the goals the my depression was causing and then get off of the Zoloft.

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

I'm taking 150mg of Zoloft each evening. It has been extremely helpful, although I still have to make an effort and make some personal adjustments which is more than manageable. I am very thankful as Zoloft has stripped my depression off and hopefully it will be just a matter of time before I am to reach the goals the my depression was causing and then get off of the Zoloft.

Who do you work for.

 

[psytaco]

I've had mixed experiences with SSRI/SNRIs.

I first tried Effexor but could only tolerate it for 3 days before I stopped taking it due to extreme side effects.

I tried zoloft 50mg for 6 months. It was mildly effective for lifting depression slightly but little to no impact on anxiety. It also caused me to put on about 6-8kg and lose my sex drive and ability to enjoy sex. The withdrawal was a bitch too (brain zaps, sweating etc.).

The only thing that was effective was mirtazapine. I was suffering a severe depressive episode before taking this and started on 15mg. Honestly, if I would not have taken it I would be dead now. So in effect it saved me life and allowed me to get enough breathing space to focus on getting better. That is not to say that I was depression free after taking it (it didn't help too much with anxiety either) but I could sleep again, concentrate and didn't feel chronically suicidal or like I was going insane. It did make me put on 10kg and started to give me muscle twitches (these went away once I ceased taking it). I took it for a year. I stopped taking it without many issues over 9 months ago.

I now don't take any antidepressants but am still suffering with insomnia and anxiety. I am probably still a bit depressed but am actually able to feel happiness again, get somewhat excited about things and enjoy certain parts of life. I saw a sleep specialist recently who recommended valodoxan for insomnia which works on melatonin and serotonin (so an interesting antidepressant). My sleep hasn't been too bad of late and I can manage with restavit, so I haven't bothered taking it. Anyone else got any experience with it? From my limited reading it doesn't seem to cause the same issues with libido or weight gain as other antidepressants do. However, it is supposed to be harsh on the liver.

 

[hunter1]

who do you work for.

lol!!!