I'm sure that link was a real gem but it wouldn't load. Care telling me what it said? My point was ppl who commit terrible acts of violence get less time than ppl who use and sell small qrys of drugs and that makes no sense.
^ There is no need to focus on the tiny details here. The big picture is clear enough:
The maximum prison sentence for selling slaves as a first time offender is 20 years.
The maximum prison sentence for helping al-Qaeda develop a nuclear weapon is 20 years.
The maximum prison sentence for knowingly and purposefully giving someone AIDS is 10 years. source
There is a quiz here about average time served for various violent crimes that might surprise some. The average time served for all violent crimes is 43 months.
But most people who commit felonies don't even end up in prison. source
The average time served for a sexual assault is 35 months, huh? And for rape it's 65 months? I don't know about you, but compared to some of the sentences handed down for drug-related "crimes," that's messed up.
Keep trying to put a spin on prison sentencing even after I've corrected you many times?
Ro4eva, put drug trafficking and posession on that list. They are lower than everything else you have listed (even before crack sentencing was reduced in 2010).
Prisoners are not more likely to be re-arrested for drug charges than other non-violent crimes so why is the crime rate dropping and a higher percentage of drug offenders are put in prison? Because they figured out who to arrest.
Now, please, before you trust media, try doing some comparing on your own.
Keep trying to put a spin on prison sentencing even after I've corrected you many times?
Ro4eva, put drug trafficking and posession on that list. They are lower than everything else you have listed (even before crack sentencing was reduced in 2010).
Prisoners are not more likely to be re-arrested for drug charges than other non-violent crimes so why is the crime rate dropping and a higher percentage of drug offenders are put in prison? Because they figured out who to arrest.
Now, please, before you trust media, try doing some comparing on your own.
They figured out who is easier and more profitable to arrest.Nyou can spin it however you like but putting a low level dealer in jail for 40 years is unjust at best and draconian at worst. We as taxpayers have to pay to house this guy for 4 decades! We will have to pay his medical bills as he ages which isn't cheap now can you imagine how expensive it will be in 4 decades! I don't think you are looking at the long term here. This will not teach him a lesson this is the end of his life. Let me ask you are you scared of the person in question? He hasn't hurt anyone! We as a society need to decide who we are scared of and whO we are just mad at. Because these kinds of sentences are not sustainable. We already have the highest prison population in the world! Where will it end?
They figured out who is easier and more profitable to arrest.Nyou can spin it however you like but putting a low level dealer in jail for 40 years is unjust at best and draconian at worst. We as taxpayers have to pay to house this guy for 4 decades! We will have to pay his medical bills as he ages which isn't cheap now can you imagine how expensive it will be in 4 decades! I don't think you are looking at the long term here. This will not teach him a lesson this is the end of his life. Let me ask you are you scared of the person in question? He hasn't hurt anyone! We as a society need to decide who we are scared of and whO we are just mad at. Because these kinds of sentences are not sustainable. We already have the highest prison population in the world! Where will it end?
Alright, now most of us here have been to either jail or prison. How fast can a small possession beef turn into a much more serious crime that's unavoidable?
You go to jail on your silly charge(weed , a little coke,whatever..) now your around "real" criminals doing real time. Maybe they're there for sentencing or a new charge they got upstate in prison. They got nothing to lose victimizing people in whatever way they seem necessary, so u defend yourself from attack. The dude ends up dying of a seizure or whatever brought on by getting hit by the dude charged with the minor drug crime. Next thing u know your sitting in court facing a murder charge/or manslaughter all because u defended yourself. You wouldn't have ever had this charge if u weren't in jail for that stupid drug charge to begin with. Now your looking at 10-20yrs for trying to stay alive. I've seen it happen in county. The kid is still locked up 15yrs later. He's gone on to become a gang member and racked up a slew of charges. I was his celly before the incident and this was a normal decent kid. Definitely not gang material. I guess once he saw his life took from him he either lost his mind or felt he needed protection and fell into the trap a lot of people do when they first go in.
This kid was in there for an oz of pot and now he might never get out. My brother ended up going upstate and told me the kid was a racist badass ab now... What a shame, he was a nice kid 15yrs ago. The system turned him into an animal...
If this meant for moi, please read the following reply. If not, please disregard the following reply.
NSFW:
When have you corrected me several times?
I shouldn't have to remind you of some of the many remarks you have made about prison, and the correctional system in America in general. Remarks which are controversial (to put it lightly).
The last time I did remind you, it looked like you became rather angry and derogatory in your rebuttal towards me, possibly because you found my argument(s) to be valid?
But what you have never done - as far as I'm aware - is to admit that you have been wrong, when most people would agree that you are, and when the references which are referenced suggest it as well. After a while, an overdose of pride becomes easy to spot.
Make no mistake: as human beings, we don't have all the answers, we make mistakes, we have been wrong many times.
I'll gladly acknowledge that I have made many mistakes, that I have been wrong many times, and that I've apologized for being wrong. And that it was really not that difficult.
Ro4eva, put drug trafficking and posession on that list. They are lower than everything else you have listed (even before crack sentencing was reduced in 2010).
I strongly disagree with what I underlined in your statement. Crack cocaine sentencing by itself (without aggravating factors) was ludicrously severe before the disparity changes.
Prisoners are not more likely to be re-arrested for drug charges than other non-violent crimes so why is the crime rate dropping and a higher percentage of drug offenders are put in prison? Because they figured out who to arrest.
With respect to the police figuring out who to arrest for non-violent drug-related crimes, I firmly believe that their profiling continues to be discriminatory towards race, social standing, and net worth. And as they fall further behind on their arrest quotas, they discriminate less in desperation.
They need their asset forfeiture fix, or they'll go into withdrawal.
What some of these pigs end up doing is no better than a drug addict stealing to afford his fix. They are modern day privateers - a license to loot and plunder off of otherwise law-abiding and non-violent civilians. You might not think much of it, but if it ever ends up happening to you, I guarantee it'll severely affect whatever trust and respect you have for the average street-level bureaucrat working narcotics.
When it comes to mainstream media, I find it very difficult to accept their articles and reports as fact beyond a reasonable doubt.
The vast majority of my opinions and views are based on first-hand, personal, intimate experience, and not purely oberservational. And I supplement my opinions on occasion with third party references.
When something is being discussed, and I don't have any first-hand, personal, intimate experience, I tend to make it clear that I do not know jack shit about the topic - that is, if I do end up posting in the thread at all.
When something is being discussed, and I only have a little first-hand, personal, intimate experience, I tend to make it clear that I could be wrong, and that if I am wrong for others to please correct me if they wish. And if my opinion is insulting in any way towards someone or something and it turns out I'm wrong, I most certainly attempt to make a sincere apology to him, her, them, or it.
Alright, now most of us here have been to either jail or prison. How fast can a small possession beef turn into a much more serious crime that's unavoidable?
You go to jail on your silly charge(weed , a little coke,whatever..) now your around "real" criminals doing real time. Maybe they're there for sentencing or a new charge they got upstate in prison. They got nothing to lose victimizing people in whatever way they seem necessary, so u defend yourself from attack. The dude ends up dying of a seizure or whatever brought on by getting hit by the dude charged with the minor drug crime. Next thing u know your sitting in court facing a murder charge/or manslaughter all because u defended yourself. You wouldn't have ever had this charge if u weren't in jail for that stupid drug charge to begin with. Now your looking at 10-20yrs for trying to stay alive. I've seen it happen in county. The kid is still locked up 15yrs later. He's gone on to become a gang member and racked up a slew of charges. I was his celly before the incident and this was a normal decent kid. Definitely not gang material. I guess once he saw his life took from him he either lost his mind or felt he needed protection and fell into the trap a lot of people do when they first go in.
This kid was in there for an oz of pot and now he might never get out. My brother ended up going upstate and told me the kid was a racist badass ab now... What a shame, he was a nice kid 15yrs ago. The system turned him into an animal...
Crack by itself is a different story, which is why I made that remark.
That comment was more directly toward someone else, in particular, but it is a bit difficult to really distinguish between the amalgam of people who share similar views. The issue of prison's effects on drug users, unfair sentencing, cost of prisons, charges of corruption, and personal rights tend to go hand in hand. Presenting an opposing view to one tends to oppose them all.
I went searching for the source of your figures. Frontline only told half the story, the rest of the numbers were from the Bureau of Justice, Department of Justice, and The Sentencing Project.
I would be in favor of that. But it still doesn't address the root issue. Long prison sentences should be reserved for violent people who we as a society are scared of. Murderers, kitty Didlers, rapists, violent people. I'm not scared of a non violent drug dealer are you? I don't know the subject of this story but he sounds like a heroin addict trying to support his habit through low level sales. 40 years benefits no one except the prosecutor and judges reelection campaign and ego.
I went searching for the source of your figures. Frontline only told half the story, the rest of the numbers were from the Bureau of Justice, Department of Justice, and The Sentencing Project.
Pmoseman, I'm sincerely sorry that I misread your post.
Moving on then...
To be fair, if you are referring to the figures which I wrote about in post #22 in this thread, it should be noted that they aren't my figures, but rather the figures of the website which was originally linked to by Slimvictor - copied and pasted by yours truly.
Now, do those numbers represent an accurate average sentencing term in America for the corresponding crime? And my honest answer to you is: "I have no bloody idea. And you could very well be correct about Frontline only telling half of the story."
Secondly, are those numbers based solely on federal prisons, state prisons, or a median of both? And my honest answer to you is: "I have no bloody idea. I might have missed the part where it states this - please feel free to correct me if I did."
They figured out who is easier and more profitable to arrest.Nyou can spin it however you like but putting a low level dealer in jail for 40 years is unjust at best and draconian at worst. We as taxpayers have to pay to house this guy for 4 decades! We will have to pay his medical bills as he ages which isn't cheap now can you imagine how expensive it will be in 4 decades! I don't think you are looking at the long term here. This will not teach him a lesson this is the end of his life. Let me ask you are you scared of the person in question? He hasn't hurt anyone! We as a society need to decide who we are scared of and whO we are just mad at. Because these kinds of sentences are not sustainable. We already have the highest prison population in the world! Where will it end?
These clowns that make the laws know exactly who their scared of, NOBODY!
Its just a huge money making scam........yes we have the most in jail, is this the reason the corrupt politicians call the USA the best country in the world?
Its a corrupt system from top to bottom & they know the more people that they arrest, the more money they make. They are drying out the well on every avenue & will continue to do so & these judges that are sending people to jail for 40 years for a nonviolent crime (should be) are a disgrace to humankind.
Pmoseman, I'm sincerely sorry that I misread your post.
Moving on then...
To be fair, if you are referring to the figures which I wrote about in post #22 in this thread, it should be noted that they aren't my figures, but rather the figures of the website which was originally linked to by Slimvictor - copied and pasted by yours truly.
Now, do those numbers represent an accurate average sentencing term in America for the corresponding crime? And my honest answer to you is: "I have no bloody idea. And you could very well be correct about Frontline only telling half of the story."
Secondly, are those numbers based solely on federal prisons, state prisons, or a median of both? And my honest answer to you is: "I have no bloody idea. I might have missed the part where it states this - please feel free to correct me if I did."
Ah, Slim did post the link. You did not misread my post, I just got you mixed up with another who posts. That was my way of apologizing by explaining, instead of apologizing.
Frontline is not someone I believe based on news stories I have seen where they left out facts to keep a plot-line.
They note that those serving sentences for marijuana serve an average of 42 months in prison (top of their page). True. They suggest using that as a comparison. Notice that percentage is for Federal and the rest of the statistics are for State Prison?
Across the board, Federal Prisoners (in the statistics we are comparing) serve at least a year more than State Prisoners. The only ones serving less for violent crimes than drug crimes are in for Assault, 28 months on average
Nearly all (98 - 99 percent) of Federal prisoners with drug charges as the most serious offense are trafficking charges.
Why call all these drug offenses not simply traffickers, 42 percent, while only a small minority are serving time in prison for posession, and the average is 12 months.
To continue from earlier stories on how everyone is in prison for.marijuana possession. They are just trying to raise contention and hype this story and are doing nothing to help people see the real issues.
