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Isis

Not enjoying this ISIS thing one bit :( -

Isis is a production of the Syrian/Saudi government - this started last year when the Iraqi people revolted against the PM Malky. This cause so much internal conflict, it was a revolution that nobody could stop, SO the government infiltrated the revolution and made it an 'extreme' movement to get 'sympathy' from other states.

The last thing the world needs is for these guys to 'win' and make a true Islamic state - Yes Iran is Islamic but Shia, ISIS is Sunni and there is a big difference (Jidhas).

(My opinion)
 
I'm sure any theocratic state may be capable of nastiness in some circumstances (including shi'ite (or christian)); but i think the particular strain of nasty sunni religion current at the moment has got a lot to do with wahabi version, which is as widespread as it is largely due to saudi money (and usefulness to the us). (i'm sure the lay people of the wahabis are as innocent/ignorant as the lay of any faith though)
 
Bearlove said:
Not enjoying this ISIS thing one bit :( -

Isis is a production of the Syrian/Saudi government - this started last year when the Iraqi people revolted against the PM Malky. This cause so much internal conflict, it was a revolution that nobody could stop, SO the government infiltrated the revolution and made it an 'extreme' movement to get 'sympathy' from other states.

The last thing the world needs is for these guys to 'win' and make a true Islamic state - Yes Iran is Islamic but Shia, ISIS is Sunni and there is a big difference (Jidhas).

(My opinion)
Click to expand...

This.
 
One Thousand Words said:
I doubt it.
Click to expand...

He managed to rule secularly in the country for 20 odd years tho - and if Assad and Gaddaffi could keep the fuckwits under control then I'm sure Saddam could have done. If took western intervention to stop Gaddaffi kicking their ass and look at Libya now.

they are made up of many of the disposed military generals

But remember all those generals were absolutely scared shitless of Saddam. No chance of any of them launching any bid to takeover from Sadders.

Throw in a few foreign extremists

I remember when Saddam was on the gallows and all the shites were sat round cheering "Moqtada" and Saddam just looked at them with the noose round his neck and said sarcastically "Fucking Moqtada". I don't think those foreign extremists would've liked Saddam when he was angry.

I still remember when they were leading Saddam to the gallows and someone said "You have ruined Iraq" and Saddam said "Get to fuck".
 
Saddam could keep people under control to a degree, because he was a dictator (it's easy for them); more importantly, he could repress away for a long time without the 'international community' making a fuss, as he was working for us then. I don't believe for a second that arabs (or anyone) are incapable of democracy or decent government - any individual chance of this ever happening was scuppered by the west so the darkies didn't get together and try to keep the resources they happened to live on (see Nasser/Mossadeq/Lumumba). There's a reason our friends are so often dictators - it's because our elite has a contempt for democracy (see any chomsky or edward bernays)

...

In the first article i posted, it talks about how strange it was that the small number of jihadis could defeat iraq's large forces in mosul; it suggests that there's still an extant network of ex-baathist generals who have now allied themselves with ISIS to fight al-maliki - the army 'melted away' because the officers buggered off. This network and the wider sunni insurgency has been working with the US for some time (see the Seymour Hersh Article from 2007 within that link predicting what's happening now)

This is all part of the old Zbigniew Brezinski grand chessboard strategy as far as i can see (same strategy, just some different tactics).

It doesn't seem like ISIS get their orders directly from the US, but they might as well have (saudi and qatar are fellow travellers). I wouldn't put anything past the US though after reading about the wonderful petraeus' Salvador Option (you know when we tortured and killed iraqis by the thousand using death squads with the same methods as used in central/south america in the 80s (but largely got away with it this time)). http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington

And don't forget the good old SAS dresing up as muslims and planting bombs in mosques http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=1556.

In fact the so-called sectarian civil war that started in iraq after the invasion could be seen to have been started and maintained by false flag US terrorism to avoid any stability interfering with our hegemony (golden mosque bombing).
 
Another good long-ish overview of iraq.
http://www.alternet.org/world/devas...-ourselves?paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

Contains this infamous quote of Bush aide Karl Rove (via journalist Ron Suskind) in 2002:

“The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ‘That's not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’”

Who are the nutters again?
 
Vurtual said:
Saddam could keep people under control to a degree, because he was a dictator (it's easy for them); more importantly, he could repress away for a long time without the 'international community' making a fuss, as he was working for us then. I don't believe for a second that arabs (or anyone) are incapable of democracy or decent government - any individual chance of this ever happening was scuppered by the west so the darkies didn't get together and try to keep the resources they happened to live on (see Nasser/Mossadeq/Lumumba). There's a reason our friends are so often dictators - it's because our elite has a contempt for democracy (see any chomsky or edward bernays)

...

In the first article i posted, it talks about how strange it was that the small number of jihadis could defeat iraq's large forces in mosul; it suggests that there's still an extant network of ex-baathist generals who have now allied themselves with ISIS to fight al-maliki - the army 'melted away' because the officers buggered off. This network and the wider sunni insurgency has been working with the US for some time (see the Seymour Hersh Article from 2007 within that link predicting what's happening now)

This is all part of the old Zbigniew Brezinski grand chessboard strategy as far as i can see (same strategy, just some different tactics).

It doesn't seem like ISIS get their orders directly from the US, but they might as well have (saudi and qatar are fellow travellers). I wouldn't put anything past the US though after reading about the wonderful petraeus' Salvador Option (you know when we tortured and killed iraqis by the thousand using death squads with the same methods as used in central/south america in the 80s (but largely got away with it this time)). http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/06/el-salvador-iraq-police-squads-washington

And don't forget the good old SAS dresing up as muslims and planting bombs in mosques http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=1556.

In fact the so-called sectarian civil war that started in iraq after the invasion could be seen to have been started and maintained by false flag US terrorism to avoid any stability interfering with our hegemony (golden mosque bombing).
Click to expand...

Shhh - US have not funded ISIS, why would they ? Control of Oil - who has the largest stock of OIL. Oh USA :D but shh though - no need for another Iraq war.
 
The iraq government under al-maliki has got too bolshie lately - eg not agreeing to give US soldiers legal immunity, so they had to leave (they couldn't not kill people of course). ISIS is doing what the US want to happen and bringing him down a few pegs (and by proxy iran), whether they fund ISIS directly or not (and saudi and qatar who do fund them are basically the same entity as the us really). ISIS were doing what we wanted in syria too (but with some unconvincing deniability).
 
Vurtual said:
The iraq government under al-maliki has got too bolshie lately - eg not agreeing to give US soldiers legal immunity, so they had to leave (they couldn't not kill people of course). ISIS is doing what the US want to happen and bringing him down a few pegs (and by proxy iran), whether they fund ISIS directly or not (and saudi and qatar who do fund them are basically the same entity as the us really). ISIS were doing what we wanted in syria too (but with some unconvincing deniability).
Click to expand...

What 8o - We wanted Syria to do what? Bring down Iran? Wait what :D
 
We wanted ISIS to bring down syria/assad, so we could then start on iran (that's not working out quite as planned so far though...). It's the old neo-con plan (via wesley clark). (The turn to ISIS-type groups was applying the 'salvador option' (death squads) to syria)
 
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Vurtual said:
We wanted ISIS to bring down syria/assad, so we could then start on iran (that's not working out quite as planned so far but...). It's the old neo-con plan (via wesley clark)
Click to expand...

ISIS was created by Syria though - Neocon, really .
 
ISIS was NOT created by syria/assad - they've been fighting syria to the death (though losing). It's obviously not a shi'ite funding them, and saudi (prince bandar) qatar and the us have got the most form. It's widely accepted that isis got their funding from saudi/qatar/kuwait early on, though they're apparently trying to cut ties now (but this is probably just PR)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...2e90ac-f317-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html
 
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Vurtual said:
ISIS was NOT created by syria/assad - they've been fighting syria to the death (though losing). It's obviously not a shi'ite funding them, and saudi (prince bandar) qatar and the us have got the most form. It's widely accepted that isis got their funding from saudi/qatar/kuwait early on, though they're apparently trying to cut ties now (but this is probably just PR)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...2e90ac-f317-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html
Click to expand...

When your quoting 'thedailybeast' I will respectfully withdraw myself from the conversation :).

Bear / Dub
 
It's true nonetheless (there's loads of other links - i just picked those (don't know the beast, WaPo not good enough?) - show me some evidence of assad creating isis (that level of headfuck espionage seems beyond him really).

edit - here's some more:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_worl...ate_a_monster_they_can_t_control_in_iraq.html
http://www.dw.de/who-finances-isis/a-17720149
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-been-bankrolled-by-saudi-arabia-9533396.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/19/isis-an-expression-of-imperialism-in-iraq/
 
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ISIS - can I show you evidence where they came from? How long do you have ? ISIS is built from extremists - Syria, Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Iran - this extremist mentality was buried for a long time - it's surfaced again with this united front of ISIS.

USA has manufactured these demons.
 
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